Becoming an ex-pat or staying a national

[Widebdy]

mhk77's post seems to raise a valid point. Why are Pilots apparently struggling if rent and the majority of the schooling is paid for? Is this isolated to FO with more then 1 kid or is it across the board?

Some comments like the majority are in UAE out of "necessity not desire" are also being made. This is a strong statement. I am weighing up a move. I currently live in a city almost as expensive as Dubai (rent excluded). Although I am enjoying working with my airline I remain without a permanent contract and opportunity for long haul. If money can be saved in EK is it really such a clear cut "stay in Europe"? What premium should be paid to live in Europe paying rent and being taxed to the neck?

[Bindair Dundat]

And herein lies the difference ".....my kids have not started school yet"
We saved heaps of money before kids but once they started schooling in Dubai, forget about it. What I pay for two kids activities and lessons for the entire school year back home, I paid for one for one semester in Dubai.
We were glad for the opportunity but equally glad to be done with life there as our kids got older. We still save, travel and our quality of life is much better on our home country.
If you have a good gig back home, and have a family, I don't see a massive benefit to being an expat in the Middle East now. Packages have not kept up with inflation and look to get squeezed further with Expo.

[Widebdy]

Thanks Bindair.

Anyone care to share typical school fees .v. allowance? School fees seems to be the recurrent and strongest argument given rent is usually covered by the companies. Is everyone generally in agreement it is the school fees that make the big difference between being happy with the financial package and unhappy?

Anyone who regards the financial deal as acceptable have an opinion on staying in Europe or become an expat?

[Chadflies]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.. I don't have a family that includes kids.. But I hope to in the near future. The image I have of living over seas is that it's a great opportunity to save a lot of money, tax free, and enjoy flying on some of the most state of the art equipment. If moving there would turn into a financial struggle more that a benefit.. That wouldn't be what I'm looking for.. Warm weather or not

[Chadflies]

Solid point.. Stick with the enemy you know vs. The monster you don't.. From what your saying, look to the Middle East if your job prospects are nil, or if your looking to finish off your last few years of flying and make some extra cash.

[Kiwikid]

Schooling

For an idea of fees have a look at GEMS Education | Learn. Aspire. Be one of the bigger private education companies in the UAE. Most of the individual school sites will have their fees listed if you dig down a bit.
As an idea our kids school charges around 45000 dhs per year for primary age, going up to nearly 70000 by year 13. It is just about impossible to get into any of the older, cheaper schools and the brand new ones are even more expensive.

Remember there are after school activities such as sports and music to add on and most of those will set you back more than 1000dhs/term. It's very easy to spend an extra 5-10k per child there. Then there is the general weekend/holiday entertainment. Sure you don't have to do those things but keeping the kids happy when it is 40 degrees plus outside takes a bit of work.

[JammedStab]

Each person is different. But consider for a minute one thing. You come from a large country which is as big as Europe. Many of the jobs in the country will take you away from your preferred home for a long time. In effect, you can be the equivalent of an expat in your own country if you are stuck in a faraway province or territory at a job that doesn't allow you to get home much. Especially if that home is already in an out of the way location where there are no flying jobs.

International locations may be more interesting to you than Yellowknife although that may or may not apply to the locals depending on where you are/could be.

[trent1974]

Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat

This is such an individual question but two things...do you have a family? And are you ready for a 10 year plus commitment?
If you have kids, you will live a VERY average lifestyle on an FO salary and not likely put away much money (if any) until you see an upgrade which is stretching out to more like 5 - 7 years now at EK. Doesn't seem like a problem but you will be surrounded by expats who appear to be flush with cash and spend it at every turn. It is a hard place to live a frugal lifestyle with any quality of life and not feel like you are being shafted. Everything costs there and if you have kids...schooling and activities costs are through the roof and a lot of dubious quality there.

I am not going to disregard Bindair's argument completely but let me tell you that I have been living in Dubai for 4 years, I have two kids in school (the company mostly pays for it), I am still an FO, and we live a better lifestyle than we would in my home country. We have also saved over 100,000 AED in 3 years; this is in addition to the provident fund where 17% (5% from me and 12% from the company) of my basic salary goes every month. Basic salary is about 28,000 AED per month so you can do the math. In those first few years we also had the highest expenses you can have; our kids were in nursery for a while (the company does not pay for it); we were paying off a car; my wife was doing her Master's degree at a university. Even with all this we managed to save a significant amount of money as indicated above.


Now, that being said, I will say that we do not have a Ferrari, we do not own a yacht and we do not eat out at 5 star restaurants every day.


So, if those things are important to you then don't bother coming here.


Cheers,


Trent

[Widebdy]

my wife was doing her Master's degree at a university.

What is the employment situation for the wives? Are the bigger companies generally run like international firms. For example can a professional woman expect to progress and be promoted as she would in Europe?

Happy wife = happy pilot.

[trent1974]

Originally Posted by Widebdy

What is the employment situation for the wives? Are the bigger companies generally run like international firms. For example can a professional woman expect to progress and be promoted as she would in Europe?

Happy wife = happy pilot.

Hi Widebdy,


All kinds of different people will give you vastly different answers to that question. Here is what I have seen.


We are friends with a French couple who originally came here for her husband's job and his wife has ended up with a very respectable position in another company.


I have the opinion that your spouse may experience more resistance or discrimination than she is used to at home but I don't see any evidence that spouses cannot find a very decent job here.


I would suggest she put some effort into networking as soon as she can. My wife has met some people in her MBA course that have already offered her a position in the company they work for. They are middle to top management in the company.


Cheers,


Trent

[Widebdy]

Thanks Trent.

And what about career progression for us lowly Pilots in the UAE operators? Do the "interesting jobs" go to locals or is there opportunities for expats who might wish to vary their line flying with some ops, training or hr roles etc? Or are we expected to stick to our line roles?

[Plazbot]

For wife jobs, typically you will see 6-10k a month. Many employers like the already landed spouses as there is no housing/visa/flight etc responsibility for them. For example my Mrs works for a relocation company paying 1000/day for between 8 and 12 days per month but worked in her real world job at first for less. I also work with people with teacher or nurse wives and 10k seems to be the going rate. That said, I know of a few examples who have landed gigs with extras that are above 30k/month but are rare.

Don't let the Pprune doom and gloom dictate your choice. The only more toxic website than this is expatwoman.com. Bored wives are far worse than disenfranchised men. You can have a great time here. Many do including me. I am not a long timer but in my 5th year I think I have seen enough to form an opinion. The biggest trap, like any work place is to let the angry or disheartened to become your reality. Go to work, do your job and go home. Write a list of why you came here with the pros and cons of both locations. Add and subtract as the time goes by as it is easy to forget.

As for development for yourself, you have been hired for a task, that is what they want you for. Usual progression within those tasks is probably accelerated though such as commands, training, supervisory but certainly it is unusual to step sideways. Not unheard of though.

[40&80]

British pilots should consider the advantages of them being a non resident worker in the Middle East whilst their wife and children retain their UK residency advantages which I feel they will find by experience or investigation are many.

[Flyingmachine01]

Considering the Expat Life

Well In Australia..... Not many options at all..
The Expat life is something I have to consider...
QF has done Absolutely nothing in 5 years...Virgin stopped Hiring..
LCC are hiring but It would be nice to fly for some sort of Legacy airline.. all be it being in the UAE area..
I am definitely considering my options and it really depends on Fleet allocation.

FM01

[Landflap]

40 & 80 : Wouldn't that leave the expat liable to UK taxes ? Wife & family in the Uk at a Residence available for use (it clearly would be) would start him off down the route of "Ordinarily Resident". UK Tax Officials are now looking at this very scenario, very closely.

[BDiONU]

UK Tax scenario Information on the new UK Statutory Residency Test | Financialuae's Blog