Unstable approaches
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Which DME are we talking about...and which DME were they reading.( RNAV 05)
If its 2 miles from the VOR ( 5 miles beyond the runway 05),and 500AGL then they are way to high!
If its 2 miles from the field, they should be 870 MSL( runway elev 120"),750 AGL.so they were 250 low.
So easy to fuc
up an approach when you rely on the wrong DME...( runway, Loc, Vor)
If its 2 miles from the VOR ( 5 miles beyond the runway 05),and 500AGL then they are way to high!
If its 2 miles from the field, they should be 870 MSL( runway elev 120"),750 AGL.so they were 250 low.
So easy to fuc
up an approach when you rely on the wrong DME...( runway, Loc, Vor)
Last edited by loc22550; 30th Aug 2013 at 06:41.
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non precision approaches that use ground based navaids IMHO should be a thing of the past...confusing dme fixes, and procedures that use dme from one source then another are a trap..mix that and fatiguing rosters in a pot and stirred and shaken make for a deadly cocktail..
Last edited by ironbutt57; 30th Aug 2013 at 06:39. Reason: spell checker "corrections"
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Doesn't have to be a NPA. It can happen using an ILS/Visual Approach on the most modern of aircraft. You must recognise and correct early. PM should start verbalising what he is seeing and look for positive corrections, take control or order a G/A.
Aviation Herald Report: Air France A388 at New York on Oct 11th 2010, oversped flaps during go-around
By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Aug 29th 2013 22:27Z, last updated Thursday, Aug 29th 2013 22:27Z
An Air France Airbus A380-800, registration F-HPJA performing flight AF-6 from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to New York JFK,NY (USA), had been cleared for a visual approach to runway 31L. The first officer was pilot flying using the autopilot but did not engage the approach mode. As result the aircraft was above glidepath, the first officer disengaged the autopilot and continued manually. While descending through 2800 feet with thrust at idle, still above glidepath, the gear was extended and flaps were set to position 2. About 5nm before touchdown, descending through 2200 feet, the aircraft was still at 210 KIAS. Descending through 1840 feet the aircraft was two dots above glidepath, thrust was at idle, speed 210 KIAS, the vertical speed was 1600fpm and the speedbrakes had been fully deployed. At 1600 feet, still at 210 KIAS, the first officer ordered the flaps to position 3, the flaps relief kept the flaps at position 2. At 480 feet AGL the speed was still 210 KIAS and above glidepath about 1nm before the threshold, when the captain, pilot monitoring, ordered a go-around surprising the first officer. The thrust levers were moved to the TOGA detent and initiated a go around, the aircraft quicky assumed a climb rate of about 3400 fpm, pitch attitude about 2 degrees nose up. The first officer moved the thrust levers to the MCT detent, unnoticed by the captain. The aircraft accelerated exceeding the maximum speed for the flaps at position 2, an alert sounded and the flap relief moved the flaps to position 1, about 2 seconds later the flaps were selected to position 1, the vertical speed increased to +4200 fpm. The aircraft climbed through the go-around altitude of 1000 feet, at 1600 feet the first officer attempted a first level off, the speed rose through 301 KIAS. Now the thrust levers were pulled into the CLB detent, which effectively commanded the autothrust into speed mode, the engines were spooled down to idle. ATC subsequently cleared the aircraft to maintain 2000 feet and a speed of 220 KIAS, the aircraft stabilized at 2000 feet and 220 KIAS, positioned for another approach and landed safely on runway 31L about 10 minutes later.
By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Aug 29th 2013 22:27Z, last updated Thursday, Aug 29th 2013 22:27Z
An Air France Airbus A380-800, registration F-HPJA performing flight AF-6 from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to New York JFK,NY (USA), had been cleared for a visual approach to runway 31L. The first officer was pilot flying using the autopilot but did not engage the approach mode. As result the aircraft was above glidepath, the first officer disengaged the autopilot and continued manually. While descending through 2800 feet with thrust at idle, still above glidepath, the gear was extended and flaps were set to position 2. About 5nm before touchdown, descending through 2200 feet, the aircraft was still at 210 KIAS. Descending through 1840 feet the aircraft was two dots above glidepath, thrust was at idle, speed 210 KIAS, the vertical speed was 1600fpm and the speedbrakes had been fully deployed. At 1600 feet, still at 210 KIAS, the first officer ordered the flaps to position 3, the flaps relief kept the flaps at position 2. At 480 feet AGL the speed was still 210 KIAS and above glidepath about 1nm before the threshold, when the captain, pilot monitoring, ordered a go-around surprising the first officer. The thrust levers were moved to the TOGA detent and initiated a go around, the aircraft quicky assumed a climb rate of about 3400 fpm, pitch attitude about 2 degrees nose up. The first officer moved the thrust levers to the MCT detent, unnoticed by the captain. The aircraft accelerated exceeding the maximum speed for the flaps at position 2, an alert sounded and the flap relief moved the flaps to position 1, about 2 seconds later the flaps were selected to position 1, the vertical speed increased to +4200 fpm. The aircraft climbed through the go-around altitude of 1000 feet, at 1600 feet the first officer attempted a first level off, the speed rose through 301 KIAS. Now the thrust levers were pulled into the CLB detent, which effectively commanded the autothrust into speed mode, the engines were spooled down to idle. ATC subsequently cleared the aircraft to maintain 2000 feet and a speed of 220 KIAS, the aircraft stabilized at 2000 feet and 220 KIAS, positioned for another approach and landed safely on runway 31L about 10 minutes later.
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At 480 feet AGL the speed was still 210 KIAS and above glidepath about 1nm before the threshold, when the captain, pilot monitoring, ordered a go-around surprising the first officer.
And a go around call surprised the pilot flying?
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One click back now after you’re pointing upwards in the right direction and you’ll get ‘soft go-around’ mode giving a +/- 2,000 fpm climb so all a bit less frantic👍🏻
