EK...The Less Than Good Things
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EK...The Less Than Good Things
So here it is, a thread where we can post all the experiences that are less than exemplary.This includes its host city as well.
Try to post with honesty and keep the emotions out of it (if possible).
The idea here is to take a look at what the experience has given us from a less than positive perspective. Its my hope that anyone looking to come to DXB will weigh the expressions here as well as those in the "EK...The Good Things" when they make their choice.
The idea is to share our experiences both good and bad with those who have not had the privilege of out collective experiences in a thread that bears a factual title.
Please be factual in your post and say only those things you can defend.
Try to post with honesty and keep the emotions out of it (if possible).
The idea here is to take a look at what the experience has given us from a less than positive perspective. Its my hope that anyone looking to come to DXB will weigh the expressions here as well as those in the "EK...The Good Things" when they make their choice.
The idea is to share our experiences both good and bad with those who have not had the privilege of out collective experiences in a thread that bears a factual title.
Please be factual in your post and say only those things you can defend.
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1. Rostering
2. intimidation from fleet
3. Rostering
4. Rostering
5. Nonsensical communications
6. Rostering
7. Subcontinent all night turns
8. Rostering
9. On line training with zero credit
10. No more that 5 days off in a row despite whatever hours flown
11. Manual insertions of ADs to prevent too many days off
That's a start to comment on. Did I mention rostering.
2. intimidation from fleet
3. Rostering
4. Rostering
5. Nonsensical communications
6. Rostering
7. Subcontinent all night turns
8. Rostering
9. On line training with zero credit
10. No more that 5 days off in a row despite whatever hours flown
11. Manual insertions of ADs to prevent too many days off
That's a start to comment on. Did I mention rostering.
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Due to company imposed restrictions, the rosters are rubbish and you have no hope of altering them through swaps.
Last edited by FUSE PLUG; 26th May 2013 at 05:24.
The head/desk factor. Fact is, things that take mere minutes or hours back home take days or weeks here. To be fair, that is throughout Dubai as whole, not just EK...
E.g took 2 years to get me internet banking, my phone bill payments were sent to the wrong account by someone at Etisalat for 9 months, staff travel not issuing tickets that should have been done within 2 business days even after 10 (and having to cough up 100dhs per ticket after 5 hours waiting in line) but god forbid you get slightly irritated or raise your voice at the office person. Suddenly it is all your fault.
It gets easier once you learn to deal, but that takes time. It can add considerably if you are already stressed in other areas of your life (some are mentioned)
E.g took 2 years to get me internet banking, my phone bill payments were sent to the wrong account by someone at Etisalat for 9 months, staff travel not issuing tickets that should have been done within 2 business days even after 10 (and having to cough up 100dhs per ticket after 5 hours waiting in line) but god forbid you get slightly irritated or raise your voice at the office person. Suddenly it is all your fault.
It gets easier once you learn to deal, but that takes time. It can add considerably if you are already stressed in other areas of your life (some are mentioned)
Last edited by givemewings; 29th May 2013 at 11:17.
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The things that detract from the DXB experience:
1. Endless passport copy's required for just about everything.
2. Bizarre over complication of even the most simple tasks, IE stamps, NOC, permission forms, dual signatures, passport pictures...the list goes on.
3. Any encounter with the police.
4. May-Oct unless you like 48'C and very high humidity.
5. Being made to feel like a second class citizen.
1. Endless passport copy's required for just about everything.
2. Bizarre over complication of even the most simple tasks, IE stamps, NOC, permission forms, dual signatures, passport pictures...the list goes on.
3. Any encounter with the police.
4. May-Oct unless you like 48'C and very high humidity.
5. Being made to feel like a second class citizen.
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Crew Bunk
EK in its infinite wisdom changed the aviation standard placement, behind the cockpit, to the most noisy place on the 380 and the most remote place on the T7.
Rest on the whale is a sad joke, with the noise, and on the T7 you must pass xxx .....ans, xx trolleys, annoying passengers and flight attendants, just to find yourself in a bunk that would be an insult for a average coffin. If you want to watch a movie, better be as flexible as Houdini, if you would like to eat ...... no joy, you need to do that in the cockpit, where the non disturbance policy is waived for the pilots who don't feel like lying flat at 10am for the next 7 hours. A chair? No, only on other carriers, not the self proclaimed best. Empty chairs? No go, unless you want to face morons like EGT after a hidden report of the purser.
Safety? Not necessary in EK's eyes when it comes to crew rest. In case of an emergency the industry-wide and well proven "all hands on deck" is not deemed an option for EK's leaders. You will never make it through 300 panicking ......ans. Additionally the ridiculous pyjamas that we are expected to wear, is as good as a shooting range target for weirdos. At least they now know exactly whom to follow and when the best opportunity arises if they want to make a surprise break to the flight deck, with the total of sometimes 16 passages (two shifts) of fdc.
EK in its infinite wisdom changed the aviation standard placement, behind the cockpit, to the most noisy place on the 380 and the most remote place on the T7.
Rest on the whale is a sad joke, with the noise, and on the T7 you must pass xxx .....ans, xx trolleys, annoying passengers and flight attendants, just to find yourself in a bunk that would be an insult for a average coffin. If you want to watch a movie, better be as flexible as Houdini, if you would like to eat ...... no joy, you need to do that in the cockpit, where the non disturbance policy is waived for the pilots who don't feel like lying flat at 10am for the next 7 hours. A chair? No, only on other carriers, not the self proclaimed best. Empty chairs? No go, unless you want to face morons like EGT after a hidden report of the purser.
Safety? Not necessary in EK's eyes when it comes to crew rest. In case of an emergency the industry-wide and well proven "all hands on deck" is not deemed an option for EK's leaders. You will never make it through 300 panicking ......ans. Additionally the ridiculous pyjamas that we are expected to wear, is as good as a shooting range target for weirdos. At least they now know exactly whom to follow and when the best opportunity arises if they want to make a surprise break to the flight deck, with the total of sometimes 16 passages (two shifts) of fdc.
Last edited by glofish; 27th May 2013 at 06:05.
Lol... haven't seen fd in pyjamas on the plane since... ever.
Constant sourcec of amusement to watch junior crew tell off the Capt for being up and about when the FSB sign is on because they don't recognise him.... done it myself once or twice...(to be fair, they were facing away from me at the time)
Constant sourcec of amusement to watch junior crew tell off the Capt for being up and about when the FSB sign is on because they don't recognise him.... done it myself once or twice...(to be fair, they were facing away from me at the time)
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The bad things; I don't have that much time but here is a list of the big items.
Dubai, 3rd world police state.
2 sets of rules; one for the locals and one for everyone else.
Expensive, very expensive.
Not much to do. Beach or malls take your pick.
Hot, very hot 5 months of the year. So hot it is hard to go outside during those 5 months.
Arrogance and I really don't know why they have it but they have it big time.
3rd world driving mentality. Take your life in your own hands is bad enough but to know your family is driving the roads while you are away is scary and worrisome.
Emirates. Arrogance. They think they are good. Let's see how good they would be with unions, a real government watch dog, and the rule of law. Yeah I know all of those items are non existence or illegal.
Bad pay. How many widebody pilots make less money than us? Consider the amount of hours we work as well.
No work rules, no vacation pay, no sick pay, lousy rosters, non existence duty and time limitations. What other airlines are off duty when they set the brakes at the end of the flight? How many other airlines only have one hour of duty before an international flight? Not too many.
FACTORING! How many pilots are over 900 flying hours a year? How many other airlines FACTOR? Why does Emirates do this and why does the GCAA allow EK to utilize this? What a joke!
FACTORING! You can not say enough about this concept and it has to be addressed.
I know for all the LCC pilots EK looks like a good deal but please compare apples to apples. For you pilots with obtuse mentality that would be AF, LH, AA, DL, QF and CX and not Ryan ($%#ing) Air or any other ****e airline.
There is of course more items. Your list may vary. Craggenmore and Ex 380 don't have anything bad to say. Where did they come from and what drugs are they on? I need some of those.
Dubai, 3rd world police state.
2 sets of rules; one for the locals and one for everyone else.
Expensive, very expensive.
Not much to do. Beach or malls take your pick.
Hot, very hot 5 months of the year. So hot it is hard to go outside during those 5 months.
Arrogance and I really don't know why they have it but they have it big time.
3rd world driving mentality. Take your life in your own hands is bad enough but to know your family is driving the roads while you are away is scary and worrisome.
Emirates. Arrogance. They think they are good. Let's see how good they would be with unions, a real government watch dog, and the rule of law. Yeah I know all of those items are non existence or illegal.
Bad pay. How many widebody pilots make less money than us? Consider the amount of hours we work as well.
No work rules, no vacation pay, no sick pay, lousy rosters, non existence duty and time limitations. What other airlines are off duty when they set the brakes at the end of the flight? How many other airlines only have one hour of duty before an international flight? Not too many.
FACTORING! How many pilots are over 900 flying hours a year? How many other airlines FACTOR? Why does Emirates do this and why does the GCAA allow EK to utilize this? What a joke!
FACTORING! You can not say enough about this concept and it has to be addressed.
I know for all the LCC pilots EK looks like a good deal but please compare apples to apples. For you pilots with obtuse mentality that would be AF, LH, AA, DL, QF and CX and not Ryan ($%#ing) Air or any other ****e airline.
There is of course more items. Your list may vary. Craggenmore and Ex 380 don't have anything bad to say. Where did they come from and what drugs are they on? I need some of those.
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Swan Man
I was actually agreeing with everything until I got to the paid leave bit. Maybe you need to speak with payroll as I get my full basic every month regardless of whether I'm on leave or flying. Sickness too, having been off for a considerable time recently, salary still paid as normal...in full.
FDL's are valid, it's up to you as Captain to understand them and follow them. It's your 'discretion' so use it or lose it as required. I've done both, although admit only once to not going over but there was no follow up from fleet. And regarding the chocks issue, how many times does this need to be spelt out..
YOU ARE STILL ON DUTY UNTIL CHOCKS +30 MINUTES!
This counts for your rest but you don't get paid for it. As you don't the 'free' time before our official 60 minutes before. If you don't like it, do what a small minority do, especially on early starts after days off, report at 61 minutes before. FDM's know about this but there is bugger all the company can do. It ignores then as 99% turn up and report early.
I was actually agreeing with everything until I got to the paid leave bit. Maybe you need to speak with payroll as I get my full basic every month regardless of whether I'm on leave or flying. Sickness too, having been off for a considerable time recently, salary still paid as normal...in full.
FDL's are valid, it's up to you as Captain to understand them and follow them. It's your 'discretion' so use it or lose it as required. I've done both, although admit only once to not going over but there was no follow up from fleet. And regarding the chocks issue, how many times does this need to be spelt out..
YOU ARE STILL ON DUTY UNTIL CHOCKS +30 MINUTES!
This counts for your rest but you don't get paid for it. As you don't the 'free' time before our official 60 minutes before. If you don't like it, do what a small minority do, especially on early starts after days off, report at 61 minutes before. FDM's know about this but there is bugger all the company can do. It ignores then as 99% turn up and report early.
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I am talking about not getting credit for vacation. In March I had 3 weeks vacation but still flew 44 HOURS. Yes that is true.
FDLs might be valid because of the lack of an oversight agency (see above post) but they are long. Look what the Americans just passed. If you look at the same catergories (2 sectors, 9am show and acclimatised for example) the FAA is about 2 hours less duty time than UAE. When you include only 60 mins show before the flight and 0, yes 0 time credit after the flight we really get screwed here. But it is good for you Bymonek.
Everyone does get their full salary each month. It is how they credit it here.
Sick time, if you call in sick they immediately put you on AD and try very hard to give you a crap trip to punish you for calling in sick. This is what I mean Bymonek but it is good for you.
I did not even mention the complete SHAFTING we took the last 2 weeks from management. That is almost as big as the Factoring.
FDLs might be valid because of the lack of an oversight agency (see above post) but they are long. Look what the Americans just passed. If you look at the same catergories (2 sectors, 9am show and acclimatised for example) the FAA is about 2 hours less duty time than UAE. When you include only 60 mins show before the flight and 0, yes 0 time credit after the flight we really get screwed here. But it is good for you Bymonek.
Everyone does get their full salary each month. It is how they credit it here.
Sick time, if you call in sick they immediately put you on AD and try very hard to give you a crap trip to punish you for calling in sick. This is what I mean Bymonek but it is good for you.
I did not even mention the complete SHAFTING we took the last 2 weeks from management. That is almost as big as the Factoring.
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Medical Benefits
Receiving an email, months after the wife has taken your very sick child to an approved hospital, in the hours that the company clinic is closed, while I am away on a company flight, that tells me that the claim is rejected.
No further information, no response to my email queries, no info over the phone.
Just rejected,
"Not covered"
"Fees will be recovered by payroll deduction"
Receiving an email, months after the wife has taken your very sick child to an approved hospital, in the hours that the company clinic is closed, while I am away on a company flight, that tells me that the claim is rejected.
No further information, no response to my email queries, no info over the phone.
Just rejected,
"Not covered"
"Fees will be recovered by payroll deduction"
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YA...thats exactly what I want to do on my days off, appeal, appeal, appeal.
I think its a game they play, if they draw it out long enough we will just give up.
Should not be this way, my kids have medical insurance and we should not have to fight to get it.
Nice.
I think its a game they play, if they draw it out long enough we will just give up.
Should not be this way, my kids have medical insurance and we should not have to fight to get it.
Nice.
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This has happened to me also. Impossible to get my kids seen at SZR clinic as no appointments and advised to take them to approved clinic. Once at approved clinic and know what treatment to be given, first telephoned EK again to get confirmation that said treatment is covered. Told "of course sir" by person on telephone. Result. Couple of months later costs deducted from paycheck. Many frustrating emails which go unanswered for literally weeks and numerous telephone calls to end up with partial refund. These people are a joke. Heaven forbid that my kids get seriously ill as I have zero confidence that these people will pay up. The default answer is to reject claims if at all possible in the hope that you will not pursue the appeal process too long. Unanswered emails are part of the process to break you down. What really annoys me is that its not even as if their hands are tied as they need to satisfy a third party insurer. They are the insurer so are deliberately trying to screw their own employees.
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Ex 380-800
driver
Not sure if the point you're making is a technicality regarding the wording but our duty time is chocks +30minutes. Our FDP (Flight Duty Period) stops at chocks but we're are still on duty until 30 minutes after chocks. Our rest period starts after this.
This is the same FTL scheme as used in the UK and fail to understand why so many people here still get confused between Flight Duty Period and Duty Period.
driver
Not sure if the point you're making is a technicality regarding the wording but our duty time is chocks +30minutes. Our FDP (Flight Duty Period) stops at chocks but we're are still on duty until 30 minutes after chocks. Our rest period starts after this.
This is the same FTL scheme as used in the UK and fail to understand why so many people here still get confused between Flight Duty Period and Duty Period.
Last edited by BYMONEK; 29th May 2013 at 04:00.
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Regarding medical claims, I have a good story....
My son broke his arm about 200 meters from a hospital not on the approved EK list. I called the clinic, got an emergency referral from the nurse. After the initial treatment and follow up, I lodged a claim which was paid out a few weeks later.
Must admit this happened 3 years ago, and all departments are now suffering with cutbacks etc, so could be a different story now.
My son broke his arm about 200 meters from a hospital not on the approved EK list. I called the clinic, got an emergency referral from the nurse. After the initial treatment and follow up, I lodged a claim which was paid out a few weeks later.
Must admit this happened 3 years ago, and all departments are now suffering with cutbacks etc, so could be a different story now.