Everyone Talks About Expansion Threat of Big 3 ME Carriers, But What About...
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Everyone Talks About Expansion Threat of Big 3 ME Carriers, But What About...
Seems like everyone in Europe (and even the North American legacies) talks about the rising threat of Middle East domination with their new airports, enormous fleets of new, big and fuel-efficient airplanes and supposed "endless checkbooks." Obviously those three carriers will be extremely competitive and impact global passenger flows from continent to continent, but what about the other growing presence nearer to old Europe? Are the Euro legacies adequately monitoring (and planning against) the growth of Turkish Airlines?
I knew they were planning it, but I just found this bit on another forum (airliners.net) and it relates to the new Istanbul airport planned for the back end of this decade and early 2020s. Still a few years out, but still an impressive plan. While our European airports like Berlin's new airport and the no/slow growth planning for LHR stall our ability to grow, the Turkish government is very proactive about infrastructure development and keeping THY growing. Certainly, airport development plans never work out as expected or on time (i.e., Doha's new airport) - there will be delays and challenges. But when and if this airport is fully functional, it could enable considerable growth and connectivity (both passengers and CARGO) - imagine the connectivity with 165 gates!!!! And I believe I read that THY is looking to grow to (and connect) something like 300 individual destinations. Here's the post from Airliners.net outlining some of the details related to the new, planned airport:
Some more info out from the tender:
Stage 1 = 2017:
- Main terminal with 680,000sq meter
- Additional satellite building 170,000sq meter - the total capacity of both terminals will be 90mil passengers per year
- 88 jetway contact gates
- Car park for 42,000 cars
- three independent runways
- 3.1mil sq meter apron
Stage 2 = 2019
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional high speed taxiways for existing runways
- additional 1mil sq meter apron
Stage 3 = 2021
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + taxiway systems
- additional 1mil sq meter apron
Stage 4 = 2025
- additional terminal - 250,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional taxiways
- Additional 0.9mil sq meter apron
Key facts:
- 1.5mil sq terminal space area
- Capacity of 150mil passengers per year
- 6 runways (4 parallel + 2 crosswind parallel) all VLA capable
- 165 jetway contact gates
- intra-terminal rail connection
- 3 separate maintenance hangar areas
- 8 cargo ramp areas
- Apron space for 500 aircraft spread over 6.5mil sq meters
- Direct airport auto parking lots for 70,000 cars
- Additional adjacent facilities including hospital, hotels, mosque, congress center, waste recycling and water treatment facility.
Image from news paper.
I think THY will be able to easily match the growth of the Middle Eastern carriers if this airport comes to fruition. At some point THY will also need to consider a jumbo order (A380s, 748s, A350-1000s or the proposed 777-X) for the major trunk routes. No wonder LH is looking to form a stronger bond with THY - I would be scared too if I saw this very capable airport in my backyard! I believe that I read that while EK operates to 4 German cities, THY operates to 8-9 with a mix of heavies and 738s/320s for thinner nonstop routes (but they still provide the connectivity to smaller German cities - e.g., one stop from Hannover to Narita or to JoBerg). Meanwhile, the UK is stalling on adding more runways at LHR or choosing a new greenfield site for a more competitive airport elsewhere...
Pretty impressive plans in Istanbul if they actually come to fruition over the next decade. Any thoughts?
I knew they were planning it, but I just found this bit on another forum (airliners.net) and it relates to the new Istanbul airport planned for the back end of this decade and early 2020s. Still a few years out, but still an impressive plan. While our European airports like Berlin's new airport and the no/slow growth planning for LHR stall our ability to grow, the Turkish government is very proactive about infrastructure development and keeping THY growing. Certainly, airport development plans never work out as expected or on time (i.e., Doha's new airport) - there will be delays and challenges. But when and if this airport is fully functional, it could enable considerable growth and connectivity (both passengers and CARGO) - imagine the connectivity with 165 gates!!!! And I believe I read that THY is looking to grow to (and connect) something like 300 individual destinations. Here's the post from Airliners.net outlining some of the details related to the new, planned airport:
Some more info out from the tender:
Stage 1 = 2017:
- Main terminal with 680,000sq meter
- Additional satellite building 170,000sq meter - the total capacity of both terminals will be 90mil passengers per year
- 88 jetway contact gates
- Car park for 42,000 cars
- three independent runways
- 3.1mil sq meter apron
Stage 2 = 2019
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional high speed taxiways for existing runways
- additional 1mil sq meter apron
Stage 3 = 2021
- additional terminal - 200,000 sq meter
- additional runway + taxiway systems
- additional 1mil sq meter apron
Stage 4 = 2025
- additional terminal - 250,000 sq meter
- additional runway + additional taxiways
- Additional 0.9mil sq meter apron
Key facts:
- 1.5mil sq terminal space area
- Capacity of 150mil passengers per year
- 6 runways (4 parallel + 2 crosswind parallel) all VLA capable
- 165 jetway contact gates
- intra-terminal rail connection
- 3 separate maintenance hangar areas
- 8 cargo ramp areas
- Apron space for 500 aircraft spread over 6.5mil sq meters
- Direct airport auto parking lots for 70,000 cars
- Additional adjacent facilities including hospital, hotels, mosque, congress center, waste recycling and water treatment facility.
Image from news paper.
I think THY will be able to easily match the growth of the Middle Eastern carriers if this airport comes to fruition. At some point THY will also need to consider a jumbo order (A380s, 748s, A350-1000s or the proposed 777-X) for the major trunk routes. No wonder LH is looking to form a stronger bond with THY - I would be scared too if I saw this very capable airport in my backyard! I believe that I read that while EK operates to 4 German cities, THY operates to 8-9 with a mix of heavies and 738s/320s for thinner nonstop routes (but they still provide the connectivity to smaller German cities - e.g., one stop from Hannover to Narita or to JoBerg). Meanwhile, the UK is stalling on adding more runways at LHR or choosing a new greenfield site for a more competitive airport elsewhere...
Pretty impressive plans in Istanbul if they actually come to fruition over the next decade. Any thoughts?
Last edited by Iver; 4th May 2013 at 15:39.
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I think THY will be able to easily match the growth of the Middle Eastern carriers if this airport comes to fruition.
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Good point Mr Geezer. However, it seems like THY uses narrowbody aircraft like the 737-800/900 and A320/21 to open up longer and thinner routes from Istanbul (to provide more connectivity and options for passengers) - which is a different strategy than is used by the big 3. For example, THY uses 738s to serve Basra in Iraq, Djibouti, war-torn Mogadishu, and other secondary cities in Africa. I recall the THY CEO mentioning in an article thä the strategy is to first grow to 300 destinations to maximize options and then later increase frequency to each destination for added convenience. With an airport like the one planned (if it comes to fruition), THY would have a platform to do so.
The cargo connectivity would also be very impressive (e.g., send French wine from Marseille to Mogadishu with only one stop).
The cargo connectivity would also be very impressive (e.g., send French wine from Marseille to Mogadishu with only one stop).
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Yep, gotta be a big demand in Somalia for French wine that comes in via Turkey. If only the big 3 had thought of that first.
Just an example of the connectivity potential... Thanks for your great intellectual contribution. 
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after a couple of months flying with them I have to admit that I'm quite impressed not only for the number of planes they have but also for the routes and the occupation of their planes.
As everything in this live we have to think if an organization like THY can afford this growth and make it work.
For the good of my job I hope so but... quite sceptic here.
As everything in this live we have to think if an organization like THY can afford this growth and make it work.
For the good of my job I hope so but... quite sceptic here.
Last edited by archer_737; 7th May 2013 at 18:39.
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Reuters
May 6, 2013
Turkish Airlines flight attendants aren’t allowed to wear red lipstick on the job.
Turkey's national airline has barred female flight attendants from wearing red lipstick and nail polish, striking a nerve among secular Turks worried the country is becoming more Islamic.
Turkish Airlines, Europe's fourth-biggest carrier, said the ban was aimed at keeping crews "artless and well-groomed with makeup in pastel tones", as a natural look improved communication with passengers.
"As a consequence of our current cabin uniforms not including red, dark pink, et cetera, the use of lipstick and nail polish in these colors by our cabin crew impairs visual integrity," the statement said.
Turkish Airlines declined a request for further comment.
The guideline follows other restrictions on employees' appearance and on serving alcohol. Critics say they reflect the influence of the government's conservative religious values at the fast-growing state-run airline, one of Turkey's most recognized brands.
"This new guideline is totally down to Turkish Airlines management's desire to shape the company to fit its own political and ideological stance," Atilay Aycin, president of the airline's Hava-Is labor union, told Reuters.
"No one can deny that Turkey has become a more conservative, religious country."
Turkey is 99 percent Muslim but the NATO state and European Union candidate has a secular constitution.
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's ruling AK Party, which traces its roots to a banned Islamic party, has relaxed the state's control over the expression of religion, such as once-strict limits imposed on wearing the Islamic-style headscarf.
Such restrictions were aimed at reining in Islamism and improving women's rights, but effectively prevented many devout women from studying at university or taking government jobs.
Turkish Airlines scrapped its own ban on the headscarf more than a year ago, and covered women now work at check-in counters and at other positions in the company, Aycin said.
Other Turkish carriers also have guidelines on the appearance of cabin personnel.
HIDDEN AGENDA?
The flag carrier caused a stir earlier this year when newspapers published mockups of a new Ottoman-style uniform for stewardesses with ankle-length dresses, a proposal the airline's management appears to have since abandoned.
That was followed by a ban on alcohol on planes flying to most domestic destinations and some Islamic countries.
RELATED: AIRLINE TO START CHARGING FAT PEOPLE MORE TO FLY
"They are objecting to the lipstick and nail polish that we have been using for years," said Asli Gokmen, 30, a flight attendant who lost her job with more than 300 others last year during a union protest and is petitioning for her position back.
No current employees were available for comment.
Turks worried the government is undermining the country's secular order see a hidden agenda.
On Twitter, women posted pictures after applying red lipstick. One wrote: "Why not just ban stewardesses altogether so we can all breathe a sigh of relief?"
Some male Twitter users were indignant over the insinuation that red lipstick would induce a sexual frenzy.
Turkish Airlines passenger Ahmet Yerli, 33, said he did not think the new guideline was a sign of creeping Islamization but that the ban was still "absurd."
"I've never heard of a plane crashing because of a women's lipstick," he said before his flight.
May 6, 2013
Turkish Airlines flight attendants aren’t allowed to wear red lipstick on the job.
Turkey's national airline has barred female flight attendants from wearing red lipstick and nail polish, striking a nerve among secular Turks worried the country is becoming more Islamic.
Turkish Airlines, Europe's fourth-biggest carrier, said the ban was aimed at keeping crews "artless and well-groomed with makeup in pastel tones", as a natural look improved communication with passengers.
"As a consequence of our current cabin uniforms not including red, dark pink, et cetera, the use of lipstick and nail polish in these colors by our cabin crew impairs visual integrity," the statement said.
Turkish Airlines declined a request for further comment.
The guideline follows other restrictions on employees' appearance and on serving alcohol. Critics say they reflect the influence of the government's conservative religious values at the fast-growing state-run airline, one of Turkey's most recognized brands.
"This new guideline is totally down to Turkish Airlines management's desire to shape the company to fit its own political and ideological stance," Atilay Aycin, president of the airline's Hava-Is labor union, told Reuters.
"No one can deny that Turkey has become a more conservative, religious country."
Turkey is 99 percent Muslim but the NATO state and European Union candidate has a secular constitution.
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's ruling AK Party, which traces its roots to a banned Islamic party, has relaxed the state's control over the expression of religion, such as once-strict limits imposed on wearing the Islamic-style headscarf.
Such restrictions were aimed at reining in Islamism and improving women's rights, but effectively prevented many devout women from studying at university or taking government jobs.
Turkish Airlines scrapped its own ban on the headscarf more than a year ago, and covered women now work at check-in counters and at other positions in the company, Aycin said.
Other Turkish carriers also have guidelines on the appearance of cabin personnel.
HIDDEN AGENDA?
The flag carrier caused a stir earlier this year when newspapers published mockups of a new Ottoman-style uniform for stewardesses with ankle-length dresses, a proposal the airline's management appears to have since abandoned.
That was followed by a ban on alcohol on planes flying to most domestic destinations and some Islamic countries.
RELATED: AIRLINE TO START CHARGING FAT PEOPLE MORE TO FLY
"They are objecting to the lipstick and nail polish that we have been using for years," said Asli Gokmen, 30, a flight attendant who lost her job with more than 300 others last year during a union protest and is petitioning for her position back.
No current employees were available for comment.
Turks worried the government is undermining the country's secular order see a hidden agenda.
On Twitter, women posted pictures after applying red lipstick. One wrote: "Why not just ban stewardesses altogether so we can all breathe a sigh of relief?"
Some male Twitter users were indignant over the insinuation that red lipstick would induce a sexual frenzy.
Turkish Airlines passenger Ahmet Yerli, 33, said he did not think the new guideline was a sign of creeping Islamization but that the ban was still "absurd."
"I've never heard of a plane crashing because of a women's lipstick," he said before his flight.
