Managing the Trainer Establishment
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Managing the Trainer Establishment
With regard to the letter on this, can someone clarify:
What is "Training Callout Pay"
Is it different to "Callout Pay" and where is this documented.
Is it different for TRE, TRI, TRAO?
At what point does ad hoc callout revert to a month of regular training pay?
There are many more queries but perhaps with knowledge of the above the rest will become self evident.
This looks horribly like a move to pay per duty training. It also seems to rule out any possibility of increases to training allowances that have been static since 2011.
I am fearful of rosters being messed up and constant calls to payroll to ensure that forgotten duties are paid for. Then the time delay to get it on your next salary, more than 2 months after the event. The salary in question in itself is likely to be all wrong from the previous month's errors.
Havent we been here before?
When does this all come into effect?
What is "Training Callout Pay"
Is it different to "Callout Pay" and where is this documented.
Is it different for TRE, TRI, TRAO?
At what point does ad hoc callout revert to a month of regular training pay?
There are many more queries but perhaps with knowledge of the above the rest will become self evident.
This looks horribly like a move to pay per duty training. It also seems to rule out any possibility of increases to training allowances that have been static since 2011.
I am fearful of rosters being messed up and constant calls to payroll to ensure that forgotten duties are paid for. Then the time delay to get it on your next salary, more than 2 months after the event. The salary in question in itself is likely to be all wrong from the previous month's errors.
Havent we been here before?
When does this all come into effect?
Yes, it certainly left a lot unanswered.
Callout pay was introduced when they last rostered trainers onto a line month. At first, if they called you out for a training duty while you were off training, they had to pay the whole training allowence for the month.
That soon stopped, and they introduced a one-off payment per duty- I THINK it's basically your allowence divided by twelve.
If you were to get called out for twelve duties, you revert to normal training pay, including extra for any duty in exess of twelve.
Does seem to me that they will have a pool of "reserve trainers" and be motivated to put as many back on line as they can get away with.
When it starts is also a good question- I'm putting in a CRS bid next month just to CMA.
Callout pay was introduced when they last rostered trainers onto a line month. At first, if they called you out for a training duty while you were off training, they had to pay the whole training allowence for the month.
That soon stopped, and they introduced a one-off payment per duty- I THINK it's basically your allowence divided by twelve.
If you were to get called out for twelve duties, you revert to normal training pay, including extra for any duty in exess of twelve.
Does seem to me that they will have a pool of "reserve trainers" and be motivated to put as many back on line as they can get away with.
When it starts is also a good question- I'm putting in a CRS bid next month just to CMA.
Jungle drums say we need to wait another two weeks to hear the really bad news.
Can't wait.
The don.
Can't wait.
The don.
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Why not? Cannot get a straight answer from the powers that be. I've tried. The usual smoke and mirrors.
Perhaps if they published the figures and the methods with few examples, we would not need to ask around.
Can't help but smell a rat. Been here for the "cost neutral" thing and the "Productivity Pay will be revised to more accurately reflect the incentive originally envisioned...."
In short they meant more work and less pay. Not the highlights of my time.
Can't wait to see the salary and allowance reviews. And the rationale that goes with it! I would have a grudging respect, however, if someone actually came out and said: "Guess what chaps - you're getting a pay cut....."
Face it, honesty is not that abundant here.
Perhaps if they published the figures and the methods with few examples, we would not need to ask around.
Can't help but smell a rat. Been here for the "cost neutral" thing and the "Productivity Pay will be revised to more accurately reflect the incentive originally envisioned...."
In short they meant more work and less pay. Not the highlights of my time.
Can't wait to see the salary and allowance reviews. And the rationale that goes with it! I would have a grudging respect, however, if someone actually came out and said: "Guess what chaps - you're getting a pay cut....."
Face it, honesty is not that abundant here.
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That will not happen.
This is a matter the concerns only EK trainers. A very little group. If nothing else it hasnt got the interest of the general public, but more importantly I think we should keep our office business to ourselves.
Anyway that how I feel about it. When I feel low I call a mate and we bitch for 20 minuts. Wusaaa
This is a matter the concerns only EK trainers. A very little group. If nothing else it hasnt got the interest of the general public, but more importantly I think we should keep our office business to ourselves.
Anyway that how I feel about it. When I feel low I call a mate and we bitch for 20 minuts. Wusaaa
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Payscale, actually, there are more trainers in EK then there are pilots at most medium sized airlines, so in my opinion there's nothing wrong with talking about the eroding conditions here.
A friend of mine has been a TRE for quite a while on the 330/340 fleet. He was scheduled to go over to the 380 in february, which was more then a year after his same seniority line captains went over. Just before his course started it was delayed again (he already had his 380 manuals course folder etc..). His course was then delayed and he had several course dates since, ranging from june up to august. Last news is that all the trainer courses for 330 to 380 have been cancelled - just have a look at the master trainers list.
On that same list you will also notice that despite a letter with the new rules for training rostering and pay because we are overstaffed, we are still training new TRI-AO's. Where is the logic in that?
The only thing I can conclude from that is that they will indeed move to a training pay per training duty, no monthly pay anymore. Imagine the cost savings for training department.. the only thing a trainer will cost, even when his duties are extremely badly distributed along the year and among the trainers is his few days of trainers/core course per year which he has to attend, but for which he obviously isn't paid since he is a student in those days and not a trainer..
Off topic: with apparently 80 guys confirmed to go from 777 to 380, who isn't expecting pilots being forced from 330 to 777 once we get 2 - 3 new Boeings per month next year?
A friend of mine has been a TRE for quite a while on the 330/340 fleet. He was scheduled to go over to the 380 in february, which was more then a year after his same seniority line captains went over. Just before his course started it was delayed again (he already had his 380 manuals course folder etc..). His course was then delayed and he had several course dates since, ranging from june up to august. Last news is that all the trainer courses for 330 to 380 have been cancelled - just have a look at the master trainers list.
On that same list you will also notice that despite a letter with the new rules for training rostering and pay because we are overstaffed, we are still training new TRI-AO's. Where is the logic in that?
The only thing I can conclude from that is that they will indeed move to a training pay per training duty, no monthly pay anymore. Imagine the cost savings for training department.. the only thing a trainer will cost, even when his duties are extremely badly distributed along the year and among the trainers is his few days of trainers/core course per year which he has to attend, but for which he obviously isn't paid since he is a student in those days and not a trainer..
Off topic: with apparently 80 guys confirmed to go from 777 to 380, who isn't expecting pilots being forced from 330 to 777 once we get 2 - 3 new Boeings per month next year?
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My comment was not if the trainer will be day labors or not. My point is that pprune is as efficient as writing it on the back of the loo door in HQ.
The business revolves around making money for the airline and for Dubai. We as employees are paid to support the evolution. You know the drill if we dont like it..
It is not revolving around our own personal ambitions to transfer to another fleet. The CCs some times think that rostering should consult their social calender, but thats between them, their CCM and Evita2.
We on the other hand are older and have been around the block a few times and should know how the machine works by now.
Lets wait and see the pay review. Maybe lot of trainers will resign and your friend can get the transfer. Who knows!
Enjoy the rest of the day
The business revolves around making money for the airline and for Dubai. We as employees are paid to support the evolution. You know the drill if we dont like it..
It is not revolving around our own personal ambitions to transfer to another fleet. The CCs some times think that rostering should consult their social calender, but thats between them, their CCM and Evita2.
We on the other hand are older and have been around the block a few times and should know how the machine works by now.
Lets wait and see the pay review. Maybe lot of trainers will resign and your friend can get the transfer. Who knows!
Enjoy the rest of the day
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Thank god I didn't apply to training... Anyhow, got a offered a place on the 380 from the 777, asked if i could keep my summer leave(3 weeks, first in 3 years), told no. So turned it down.. Said would be happy to go n it after the summer leave. Thinking comfy seats...
Apparently many other ex Airbus guys turning down transfer due potential loss of summer leave.
Apologies for thread swerve!
SyB
Apparently many other ex Airbus guys turning down transfer due potential loss of summer leave.
Apologies for thread swerve!
SyB
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Its a shame, after working so hard for so long. A lot of respect has been lost for the concerned manager. I actually thought he was different.
Shared goal ....shared knowledge....mutual respect....
surprised they can keep a straight face.
Shared goal ....shared knowledge....mutual respect....
surprised they can keep a straight face.
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I know many trainers in EK and the main reasons why most of them go into training are:
1. better rosters because the normal line pilots get screwed by the training dep.
2. the little twinkling star (4 stripes is not enough for some ego)
3. extra dosh
4. need to be in training because they wouldn't pass their own PPC
5. a few actually like to train and are very good, but thats only a few
6. a guy who almost crashed a plane and now wants to prove that he is not completely useless (JNB)
my favorites are those who sign up for training after 6 month in the left hand seat and then show senior captains how its done
so now they get screwed like everyone else, remember god miller, he worked his ass off and got screwed too because TCAS and ED just joined and couldn't care less how much work he put into EK
1. better rosters because the normal line pilots get screwed by the training dep.
2. the little twinkling star (4 stripes is not enough for some ego)
3. extra dosh
4. need to be in training because they wouldn't pass their own PPC
5. a few actually like to train and are very good, but thats only a few
6. a guy who almost crashed a plane and now wants to prove that he is not completely useless (JNB)
my favorites are those who sign up for training after 6 month in the left hand seat and then show senior captains how its done
so now they get screwed like everyone else, remember god miller, he worked his ass off and got screwed too because TCAS and ED just joined and couldn't care less how much work he put into EK
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Gore might be a tad over the top, but in some points he's spot on.
Why do you guys still stay in that club? It discredits itself at an alarming rate! We can't respect the pampers-fraction anyway, until they might get potty trained, but now we lose respect for the experienced who let themselves get shaftet beyond belief and still stay put!
The way things go, it is not even the doe that could justify it. So what on earth is it then? What keeps you in place? Is it that little remaining entitlement to pass on the frustration to us lower elements on the food chain? Or is it your noble intention not to leave the pitch to the inexperienced or the usual wackos who can scr@w up as much as they want, but never get sacked?
Why do you guys still stay in that club? It discredits itself at an alarming rate! We can't respect the pampers-fraction anyway, until they might get potty trained, but now we lose respect for the experienced who let themselves get shaftet beyond belief and still stay put!
The way things go, it is not even the doe that could justify it. So what on earth is it then? What keeps you in place? Is it that little remaining entitlement to pass on the frustration to us lower elements on the food chain? Or is it your noble intention not to leave the pitch to the inexperienced or the usual wackos who can scr@w up as much as they want, but never get sacked?
