half Way through April and no-one cares.
Thread Starter
PJ. It seems if you received the oven gloves in previous years you miss out on the notebook.
However the next pay neutral pay cut should sort out the next profit target. How good is that?
The Don.
However the next pay neutral pay cut should sort out the next profit target. How good is that?
The Don.
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To quote 'the management' from todays wash-up......."although we dont officially know, the vibe is that there will be no bonus this year....."
Guess the notebook/ovengloves quip might have been close to the truth! Oooops!
Guess the notebook/ovengloves quip might have been close to the truth! Oooops!
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looking on with interest from a land afar, however guys its big picture stuff!
Open to correction(and no doubt corrections will soon follow), but I recall the Emirates Group (after the first six months of the financial year) posted extremely positive half-yearly results, (2.1 billion dirhams) and compared with the target for the financial year, they had already made 60% of this target, all before traditionally what is their busiest period (Oct - Mar).
Loads, Yields, the terms go on and on... , HOWEVER from speaking to your fellow colleagues, the flights have been absolutely STUFFED with pax and cargo for that matter!! (including 5 flights to London Daily!!)
And nobody has even had a go at guessing, well I am off to the Bookies : Expert Prediction (anyones best guess); Annual Profit 4.6 billion dirhams; exceeeding your target by 30%, enjoy your bonus everyone, if ya fancy sending some of it to Europe, it won't go to waste!
there will always be a few skeptics, and of course the interweb does attract them in droves, but looking at the numbers, and especially when considering the competition of legacy airlines in the Middle East, from the neutral, it does look like EK staff will get well rewarded for their hard work over the last 12 months.
And to correct some earlier posts;
25th April with no financial results posted IS rather late for EK;
if you take the time to read the archives,(which I have just done), you will find, traditionally they announce their results mid-april, and any bonus announcements done early May ( as pointed out); so two different dates, and EK seem late on the first,
Two Possible Scenarios
1) Bad News OR
2) They have so much money, its taking ages for them to count it ALL !
Best of Luck to ya !
Open to correction(and no doubt corrections will soon follow), but I recall the Emirates Group (after the first six months of the financial year) posted extremely positive half-yearly results, (2.1 billion dirhams) and compared with the target for the financial year, they had already made 60% of this target, all before traditionally what is their busiest period (Oct - Mar).
Loads, Yields, the terms go on and on... , HOWEVER from speaking to your fellow colleagues, the flights have been absolutely STUFFED with pax and cargo for that matter!! (including 5 flights to London Daily!!)
And nobody has even had a go at guessing, well I am off to the Bookies : Expert Prediction (anyones best guess); Annual Profit 4.6 billion dirhams; exceeeding your target by 30%, enjoy your bonus everyone, if ya fancy sending some of it to Europe, it won't go to waste!
there will always be a few skeptics, and of course the interweb does attract them in droves, but looking at the numbers, and especially when considering the competition of legacy airlines in the Middle East, from the neutral, it does look like EK staff will get well rewarded for their hard work over the last 12 months.
And to correct some earlier posts;
25th April with no financial results posted IS rather late for EK;
if you take the time to read the archives,(which I have just done), you will find, traditionally they announce their results mid-april, and any bonus announcements done early May ( as pointed out); so two different dates, and EK seem late on the first,
Two Possible Scenarios
1) Bad News OR
2) They have so much money, its taking ages for them to count it ALL !
Best of Luck to ya !
Last edited by HighLow; 25th Apr 2013 at 15:24. Reason: Typo
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Slight thread drift but...
I hear captains "complaining" about the fact that they are on the highest payscale. Myself, as a FO I've never heard about a payscale and there is nothing in my contract about that. So, are there fixed payscales that you jump up every year, regardless of other salary adjustments?
I hear captains "complaining" about the fact that they are on the highest payscale. Myself, as a FO I've never heard about a payscale and there is nothing in my contract about that. So, are there fixed payscales that you jump up every year, regardless of other salary adjustments?
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S**t, I knew there was something I forgot to do...
But seriously Payscale, I think you know something about this and perhaps you are in a position to give a proper answer? (And it´s not just your login name that makes me think that...)
But seriously Payscale, I think you know something about this and perhaps you are in a position to give a proper answer? (And it´s not just your login name that makes me think that...)
los,
It's not contractual (at least not any more) but most years EK has granted pilots a 3% pay increase- that is on top (or sometimes instead of) any increase in base salary, so longer serving pilots DO earn more then new hires. It does top out (is it after 10 years? I'm not sure exactley), so after a while you are on top whack and don't get any more increments.
One glaring inequity is that when an FO gets his upgrade, he goes onto Captains BASE salary regardless of how long he's been in the company.
It's not contractual (at least not any more) but most years EK has granted pilots a 3% pay increase- that is on top (or sometimes instead of) any increase in base salary, so longer serving pilots DO earn more then new hires. It does top out (is it after 10 years? I'm not sure exactley), so after a while you are on top whack and don't get any more increments.
One glaring inequity is that when an FO gets his upgrade, he goes onto Captains BASE salary regardless of how long he's been in the company.
Last edited by Wizofoz; 26th Apr 2013 at 13:39.
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Wiz,
I believe when an F/O upgrades he advances 10 steps.
So a 3 year 777 f/o would advance to step 13 where as an airbus f/o who upgrades at year 5 would then advance to step 15 essentially joining the 777 guy on the same scale albeit missing out on 2 years skipper pay.
I believe when an F/O upgrades he advances 10 steps.
So a 3 year 777 f/o would advance to step 13 where as an airbus f/o who upgrades at year 5 would then advance to step 15 essentially joining the 777 guy on the same scale albeit missing out on 2 years skipper pay.
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Salary Scales and Steps
Perhaps the Flight Deck Salary scales need to be clarified.
The current setup was introduced after a major salary structure overhaul in 1996
There are 30 Steps. They are appropriately named Step 1 to Step 30. There used to be 29 but another step was added in May 2002 when the mandatory retirement age was increased from 60 to 65
A call to HR will reveal where you are on the scale. It is not a secret. The whole scale however is a secret.
It was not always so. Up until 2004 it was published with all pay reviews. It is unclear why it became classified however it is relatively easy to work out current and previous scales and there are various unofficial scales available.
Each step is 3% above the step below. Step 1 is where a first year FO will begin. It is approx 25300.
Theoretically each year everyone goes up a step. This is in recognition for loyalty, experience etc. In earlier years this step was automatic. Latterly it became discretionary. Most years the step has been awarded. Some years it was not awarded however the whole scale was increased. For example in 2009 there was no step and no increase to the whole scale. In 2010 there was no step but the whole scale increased 6%.
By periodically increasing the whole scale, inflation in theoretically addressed. Practically, however it is not. More on that later.
A FO upgrading to Captain jumps up 12 steps, I believe. It used to be 10. I may need correction here. There is a ceiling however for FO’s on the scale. An FO will not reach step 30 by simply remaining in the company 30 years.
Likewise any captain who attains Step 30 will not get any pay increase if the Step of 3% is awarded at a pay review. Of course if the whole scale is increased say 5% then Step 30 will increase by 5%.
If we are fortunate this year there will be both a Scale Increase and a Step will also be awarded. Thus cost of living increases are addressed and loyalty and long service are rewarded.
Since the introduction of the 30 Step scale in 1996, Hourly Flying Pay was also introduced in 2007. Prior to this the basic salary was paid regardless of hours flown unless the productivity threshold of 81/84 hours in a 30/31 day month was crossed. Then productivity was awarded. Standby and Biannual simulator was credited to productivity and there was a minimum threshold of 3.5 hours for any daily duty. Even a leave day was credited at 2.5 hours to avoid a roster being packed to fatigue levels following leave.
Hence the various reviews that both whittled away at what could be counted as a credit hour and the increase to a 92 hour productivity threshold has been a contentious and bitter issue.
Basically to affect a pay cut a company has two options. Pay less for the same work or demand more work for the same pay. The former has never happened here. The latter has been enthusiastically embraced.
Though a pay cut has never occurred here, the real value of the pay scale has diminished considerably. This has happened throughout the industry.
To illustrate: Step 1 on the scale was Dhs 16,000 in 1998 (15 Years ago) today it is 25,300. If we include 3,375 for flying pay at 45 AED per hour for 75 hours (the monthly average for a 900 hour year), this becomes Dhs 28,675. (No flying pay in 1998)
So in 15 years Step 1 has increased by 79% assuming a 900 hour year.
In the same time:
Summing it all up then true pay for each hour of work had been dropping alarmingly for a decade and a half.
It’s unlikely to stop this year, if ever. Sadly we a can all expect longer hours with less earnings. It’s the new world order as bigger corporate profits are demanded.
Some tell me I am lucky to have a good job and good pay. Its true I guess but no real joy can be taken as year after year one becomes worth less. Taken to the extreme, of course, but the question must be asked: Will we all be saying we are lucky when we can still afford 2 meals a day but our colleagues in other airlines can only afford one?
Personally I would prefer the spoils of corporate success to be distributed a little more evenly among those who work hard to achieve them.
The current setup was introduced after a major salary structure overhaul in 1996
There are 30 Steps. They are appropriately named Step 1 to Step 30. There used to be 29 but another step was added in May 2002 when the mandatory retirement age was increased from 60 to 65
A call to HR will reveal where you are on the scale. It is not a secret. The whole scale however is a secret.
It was not always so. Up until 2004 it was published with all pay reviews. It is unclear why it became classified however it is relatively easy to work out current and previous scales and there are various unofficial scales available.
Each step is 3% above the step below. Step 1 is where a first year FO will begin. It is approx 25300.
Theoretically each year everyone goes up a step. This is in recognition for loyalty, experience etc. In earlier years this step was automatic. Latterly it became discretionary. Most years the step has been awarded. Some years it was not awarded however the whole scale was increased. For example in 2009 there was no step and no increase to the whole scale. In 2010 there was no step but the whole scale increased 6%.
By periodically increasing the whole scale, inflation in theoretically addressed. Practically, however it is not. More on that later.
A FO upgrading to Captain jumps up 12 steps, I believe. It used to be 10. I may need correction here. There is a ceiling however for FO’s on the scale. An FO will not reach step 30 by simply remaining in the company 30 years.
Likewise any captain who attains Step 30 will not get any pay increase if the Step of 3% is awarded at a pay review. Of course if the whole scale is increased say 5% then Step 30 will increase by 5%.
If we are fortunate this year there will be both a Scale Increase and a Step will also be awarded. Thus cost of living increases are addressed and loyalty and long service are rewarded.
Since the introduction of the 30 Step scale in 1996, Hourly Flying Pay was also introduced in 2007. Prior to this the basic salary was paid regardless of hours flown unless the productivity threshold of 81/84 hours in a 30/31 day month was crossed. Then productivity was awarded. Standby and Biannual simulator was credited to productivity and there was a minimum threshold of 3.5 hours for any daily duty. Even a leave day was credited at 2.5 hours to avoid a roster being packed to fatigue levels following leave.
Hence the various reviews that both whittled away at what could be counted as a credit hour and the increase to a 92 hour productivity threshold has been a contentious and bitter issue.
Basically to affect a pay cut a company has two options. Pay less for the same work or demand more work for the same pay. The former has never happened here. The latter has been enthusiastically embraced.
Though a pay cut has never occurred here, the real value of the pay scale has diminished considerably. This has happened throughout the industry.
To illustrate: Step 1 on the scale was Dhs 16,000 in 1998 (15 Years ago) today it is 25,300. If we include 3,375 for flying pay at 45 AED per hour for 75 hours (the monthly average for a 900 hour year), this becomes Dhs 28,675. (No flying pay in 1998)
So in 15 years Step 1 has increased by 79% assuming a 900 hour year.
In the same time:
- The price of Oil has increased from approx $19 per barrel to$ 93. A 389% increase.
- The price of Gold has increased from $250 to $1462. A 485% increase.
- Even the very conservative official inflation figures for food over the same period show an increase of 150%
Summing it all up then true pay for each hour of work had been dropping alarmingly for a decade and a half.
It’s unlikely to stop this year, if ever. Sadly we a can all expect longer hours with less earnings. It’s the new world order as bigger corporate profits are demanded.
Some tell me I am lucky to have a good job and good pay. Its true I guess but no real joy can be taken as year after year one becomes worth less. Taken to the extreme, of course, but the question must be asked: Will we all be saying we are lucky when we can still afford 2 meals a day but our colleagues in other airlines can only afford one?
Personally I would prefer the spoils of corporate success to be distributed a little more evenly among those who work hard to achieve them.
Thread Starter
Check the EK forum re pay scale steps.
The Don
The Don
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That's the story Pixy; the complete picture. BTW, it is a 10 step increase from FO to Capt. The inflation years in Dubai of 2004-2008 with decent pay increases basically saved us from much lower conditions, although as mentioned we are still falling behind.
No word yet on the bonus/ pay review? Should be this week
No word yet on the bonus/ pay review? Should be this week
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A previous poster suggested that not having the yearly result out by this time was late for EK. Looking at the 3 last years the financial statements have been signed by the auditor in the final days of April or first days of May. Hopefully we'll know this week...
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We have this every year. How many weeks etc etc etc.
The Profit Share formula is set down in black and white.
Yes the profit figure can be frigged, however, the company have always awarded the share IAW the formula, as long as the profit target has been reached.
I am not trying to defend the company but can we all move on and stop having Groundhog year every flipping April.
The Profit Share formula is set down in black and white.
Yes the profit figure can be frigged, however, the company have always awarded the share IAW the formula, as long as the profit target has been reached.
I am not trying to defend the company but can we all move on and stop having Groundhog year every flipping April.