Dubai New SID STARS debate
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not UK
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Falcon, very true comment!
I think the problem is the statement "unable"!
They cant say "we are unable" when the same aircraft in the same colours is doing it in front and behind them.
It would require a statement " I am" unable or unwilling to achieve the requirement.
I've watched people put the gear down, then wait for the A/T to increase, and then select slower.......a total waste of drag!
The 180 to 160 should be done ASAP. If it doesn't bleed off easily then bite the bullet and lower the gear, you've got drag, use it if you have to!
Energy Management.......if it doesn't come naturally, it has to be taught!
The CDA is another example!
I think the problem is the statement "unable"!
They cant say "we are unable" when the same aircraft in the same colours is doing it in front and behind them.
It would require a statement " I am" unable or unwilling to achieve the requirement.
I've watched people put the gear down, then wait for the A/T to increase, and then select slower.......a total waste of drag!
The 180 to 160 should be done ASAP. If it doesn't bleed off easily then bite the bullet and lower the gear, you've got drag, use it if you have to!
Energy Management.......if it doesn't come naturally, it has to be taught!
The CDA is another example!
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Ex Driver.
Fair comment, and an obvious omission on my part. The small bus is the same although if the speed is still reducing and thrust at idle at 1000, it will be fully stable prior 500, which is fine in VMC!
Fair comment, and an obvious omission on my part. The small bus is the same although if the speed is still reducing and thrust at idle at 1000, it will be fully stable prior 500, which is fine in VMC!
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Ex 380 and Stig,
As ex-380 said, the important part, as far as we are concerned, is that you say so early enough that we can adjust the spacing accordingly. Before base leg is sufficient, downwind would be better. In any case, PLEASE make it before we have turned the following traffic in behind you - NOT when established at 10DME.
As for the 10k 125 miles out - I take it you are basing that on flying the WHOLE star? The message hasn't got through to many (including our management, going by recent internal emails) that the idea of the "trombones" is to allow a means of absorbing the extra traffic in case of go-arounds / cocked up inbound spacing, etc. It is NOT intended to be continually filled up to the brim with traffic, which would not only leave nothing to absorb the overspill but very few options with regard to vectoring, etc as there is now very little "empty" airspace. The idea is to have a base turn in the 10-15 mile range with enough traffic to keep that continuous. That means the full STAR length is some 40 mile or so MORE than you could normally expect to fly. Whilst I do understand that this still means you descend to 10k earlier than you would like, there are also a host of airspace restrictions and other reasons for doing so.
As ex-380 said, the important part, as far as we are concerned, is that you say so early enough that we can adjust the spacing accordingly. Before base leg is sufficient, downwind would be better. In any case, PLEASE make it before we have turned the following traffic in behind you - NOT when established at 10DME.
As for the 10k 125 miles out - I take it you are basing that on flying the WHOLE star? The message hasn't got through to many (including our management, going by recent internal emails) that the idea of the "trombones" is to allow a means of absorbing the extra traffic in case of go-arounds / cocked up inbound spacing, etc. It is NOT intended to be continually filled up to the brim with traffic, which would not only leave nothing to absorb the overspill but very few options with regard to vectoring, etc as there is now very little "empty" airspace. The idea is to have a base turn in the 10-15 mile range with enough traffic to keep that continuous. That means the full STAR length is some 40 mile or so MORE than you could normally expect to fly. Whilst I do understand that this still means you descend to 10k earlier than you would like, there are also a host of airspace restrictions and other reasons for doing so.
Falcon don't go saying stuff like that or you will ruin glofishes thing about 380s being the route cause of all evil. 
The Don
The Don
