EK A330's
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Good news for the shortbus drivers. Jeddah is getting an additional four A330 flights per week. EK801 will depart Dubai at 01:55hrs arriving in Jeddah at 03:40hrs. The return journey from Jeddah, EK802 will depart at 05:15hrs arriving in Dubai at 08:55hrs.
Yep, 4 more middle east turns in the middle of the night for the 330. Sure am glad I’m not stuck on the 777 flying all over the world, laying over in exotic destinations. This is much better. Yeah, the 330 is great.
Yep, 4 more middle east turns in the middle of the night for the 330. Sure am glad I’m not stuck on the 777 flying all over the world, laying over in exotic destinations. This is much better. Yeah, the 330 is great.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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By the way Ex380, we were both right on the A330 upgrade failure rate. It was 6 of 8 in the last group, 8 of 8 failed in the group before. Another year in the right seat doing night turns to Jeddah will surely get those 14 guys squared away. Them and the ones that fail this month. And all the others who never even made it through the upgrade interview or psych eval. (Yes, the 777 upgrade success rate is better)
And it’s 1 white 330 parked over by the maintenance hangar waiting to go, not 2. So we were both wrong on that one. Looks like EAL. Only 2 other A330s have left, to China last year. No others slated to go this year. Still leaves better than 30 of them hanging around to stink up our rosters for a long, long time to come.
And it’s 1 white 330 parked over by the maintenance hangar waiting to go, not 2. So we were both wrong on that one. Looks like EAL. Only 2 other A330s have left, to China last year. No others slated to go this year. Still leaves better than 30 of them hanging around to stink up our rosters for a long, long time to come.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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If the 330 is really so bad, how come you don't leave EK ? I'll start my 330 training next month. I hoped for 777 but i'm still very proud to join one of the best airlines in the world. Yeah the 777 has better routes etc., but life isn't fairytale. Someone gets the short stick, that's life.
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Magic Carpet- Where did you see the extra Jed flights?
The new service from Jeddah will operate each Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, increasing the current service from 14 to 18 flights per week. EK801 will depart Dubai at 01:55hrs arriving in Jeddah at 03:40hrs. The return journey from Jeddah, EK802 will depart at 05:15hrs arriving in Dubai at 08:55hrs. The service will be operated by an A330, offering Emirates’ First Class, Business Class and Economy Class.
Longtimelurker
Join Date: Nov 1998
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If the upgrade fail rate is that dismal somebody in hire department or training needs to be looked at. Shouldn't be hiring that many folks who cant upgrade. Or the training folks need to be replaced because the program is so poor. Don't the management people say anything about the cost and loss of man hours. At most airlines there is a huge issue when people get off the training foot print.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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It is just a bit of a tortuous process for some, especially these days.
Guys don't get a lot of help from the Training Dept or, come to that, line pilots in the run up to their upgrade.
It's just a bit of a tough, uncompromising system.
Guys don't get a lot of help from the Training Dept or, come to that, line pilots in the run up to their upgrade.
It's just a bit of a tough, uncompromising system.
If you hire experience, common sense and airmenship, but then beat it out of each and every candidate with the too-narrow-minded-sop-stick during the 5 fo years, then you get the above result on upgrade.
I take it as a direct insult if presumed not helping upgrade-fo's!!
You just can't expect the line captains to promote the crap procedures they had to emulate to pass their upgrade.
Experience and airmenship eventually returns when left alone to operate with one's own common sense.
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Glofish if anyone allows their experience to be lost, their common sense and airmanship to be taken then I would have to question their suitability not just for the left seat but to remain in the right one as well.....
Join Date: Apr 2003
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There is a lot of help available for people coming up for their upgrades on the line, they only have to ask. I've never, ever, been asked by a candidate coming up for upgrade if they can do the cabin crew brief or fill in the tech log for example. They are small things but if you can do the normal stuff without having to think about it too much you have more spare capacity to deal with the unusual.
Similarly, it is very rare to be asked "What would you do if.....". I'm not a trainer so I wouldn't pretend to have all the answers but I think most Captains would be happy to have a chat if asked.
Similarly, it is very rare to be asked "What would you do if.....". I'm not a trainer so I wouldn't pretend to have all the answers but I think most Captains would be happy to have a chat if asked.
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Sorry to bust your rumours...
Upgrade failures are close to industry standard. Last 12 months just above 10% on the 777 and just over 5% on the 330! Yes, quit a few not unexpectedly failed in the last 330 courses but NOT 8 out of 8. The best BS I've read on PPRuNe for a while.
Check your facts guys before writing!
Upgrade failures are close to industry standard. Last 12 months just above 10% on the 777 and just over 5% on the 330! Yes, quit a few not unexpectedly failed in the last 330 courses but NOT 8 out of 8. The best BS I've read on PPRuNe for a while.
Check your facts guys before writing!
No matter what fleet you join you will end up working hard and having average rosters, it will just be the time frame in which it happens that differs.
Airbus FOs aren't working too hard now, but mini Bus Captains are having cr@p rosters. This is true.
Boeing fellas are having reasonable rosters now. But everything comes with a price right?
Consider:
1. Tcas explained after the last 777 order that we had almost 100 777s then (we have that now right?), and that after older aircraft are sent back to leasors, with the new deliveries EK would have a fleet of 160 777s by 2022. So overall growth of 60%, not bad at all, unless of course you are a new joiner on it, as that's not enough for a seat change is it. At 10 crews per aeroplane 600 of the 900+ 777 FOs on the list now are good for command. People will leave and retire and that will increase the number of new commanders required, but we are also taking DECs as well.
2. There are now 26 x 330s, 8 x 343s, 10 x 345, 22 x380. 500ish FOs. Taking the 380 commands only (forgetting about the 25 350 firm and 25 options), 260 new commands will be needed by 2019 (last 380 delivery year). The bottom 200 Bus FOs on the list now would need the A350 order to happen to upgrade. Nothing has been said officially that this is not going to happen.
3. We were also told that as of 2022 the fleet would total 270ish (capacity at DXB restricted they say). We have 170ish now. So since we are going to have 160 x 777, and 90 x 380 it would seem that the order for the 25 x 350 may still be a goer, or as the rumour goes they may be canceled and replaced by 777s (no one on this forum knows). With this fleet mix, what will be doing the nasty turns, and what will be doing the trunk routes? The Boeing pilot will argue the 777 will still be the fleet to be on, as will the 380 pilot. They both have vested interest to do so. But only time will tell for sure.
No one can pick the future here. But it does seem to turn in round abouts. At some time something will happen that disadvantages you. The command criteria changes very often, and rarely for the better. Seniority means nothing. If your fleet no longer requires new captains, you will be by passed by more junior FOs from another fleet. But going by present orders, new joiners would need to plan on being FOs for a long time.
Glofish, I would think that if someone has experience, airmanship and commonsense, they will not have any problem with the upgrade course. EK has plenty of Captains that finished the course successfully, this would seem to prove the point.
The Don
PS. I have no clue what the future holds for Bus or Boeing pilots. Nor does anyone else who argues otherwise. But new joiners need to consider would they still come to EK if command was to take a long time. Several FOs on the 380 have been shafted and will now not be eligible for command until 8yrs in the company after the last command criteria change. FOs too junior to be 380 FOs at the time these guys were sent (they did not volunteer) to the 380 are doing 330 commands now.
Beware of Big Shiny Jet Syndrome. It tends to cloud the judgement.
Airbus FOs aren't working too hard now, but mini Bus Captains are having cr@p rosters. This is true.
Boeing fellas are having reasonable rosters now. But everything comes with a price right?
Consider:
1. Tcas explained after the last 777 order that we had almost 100 777s then (we have that now right?), and that after older aircraft are sent back to leasors, with the new deliveries EK would have a fleet of 160 777s by 2022. So overall growth of 60%, not bad at all, unless of course you are a new joiner on it, as that's not enough for a seat change is it. At 10 crews per aeroplane 600 of the 900+ 777 FOs on the list now are good for command. People will leave and retire and that will increase the number of new commanders required, but we are also taking DECs as well.
2. There are now 26 x 330s, 8 x 343s, 10 x 345, 22 x380. 500ish FOs. Taking the 380 commands only (forgetting about the 25 350 firm and 25 options), 260 new commands will be needed by 2019 (last 380 delivery year). The bottom 200 Bus FOs on the list now would need the A350 order to happen to upgrade. Nothing has been said officially that this is not going to happen.
3. We were also told that as of 2022 the fleet would total 270ish (capacity at DXB restricted they say). We have 170ish now. So since we are going to have 160 x 777, and 90 x 380 it would seem that the order for the 25 x 350 may still be a goer, or as the rumour goes they may be canceled and replaced by 777s (no one on this forum knows). With this fleet mix, what will be doing the nasty turns, and what will be doing the trunk routes? The Boeing pilot will argue the 777 will still be the fleet to be on, as will the 380 pilot. They both have vested interest to do so. But only time will tell for sure.
No one can pick the future here. But it does seem to turn in round abouts. At some time something will happen that disadvantages you. The command criteria changes very often, and rarely for the better. Seniority means nothing. If your fleet no longer requires new captains, you will be by passed by more junior FOs from another fleet. But going by present orders, new joiners would need to plan on being FOs for a long time.
Glofish, I would think that if someone has experience, airmanship and commonsense, they will not have any problem with the upgrade course. EK has plenty of Captains that finished the course successfully, this would seem to prove the point.
The Don
PS. I have no clue what the future holds for Bus or Boeing pilots. Nor does anyone else who argues otherwise. But new joiners need to consider would they still come to EK if command was to take a long time. Several FOs on the 380 have been shafted and will now not be eligible for command until 8yrs in the company after the last command criteria change. FOs too junior to be 380 FOs at the time these guys were sent (they did not volunteer) to the 380 are doing 330 commands now.
Beware of Big Shiny Jet Syndrome. It tends to cloud the judgement.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Concerning the upgrade failures there is a lot of smog on the numbers.
Listening to the guys coming back with a failure does not uphold the official numbers (by management dudes on this forum), although their view is slightly impaired by their fate, I agree.
Nevertheless the stories are mainly backed up by fo's who did assists in the sim.
Concerning the rosters on the 330, anyone accepting a course on the 330 must be desperate. The truth lies in the rosters of the 330.
Just go on the portal and see for yourself.
Don
I do share your outlook and to a certain degree your comment:
But then I read the weekly reports .....
Either there is a problem in recruiting, or the beating out of airmenship is very successful!
It is appalling at times.
Listening to the guys coming back with a failure does not uphold the official numbers (by management dudes on this forum), although their view is slightly impaired by their fate, I agree.
Nevertheless the stories are mainly backed up by fo's who did assists in the sim.
Concerning the rosters on the 330, anyone accepting a course on the 330 must be desperate. The truth lies in the rosters of the 330.
Just go on the portal and see for yourself.
Don
I do share your outlook and to a certain degree your comment:
Glofish, I would think that if someone has experience, airmanship and commonsense, they will not have any problem with the upgrade course. EK has plenty of Captains that finished the course successfully, this would seem to prove the point.
Either there is a problem in recruiting, or the beating out of airmenship is very successful!
It is appalling at times.
I know what you mean by the reports Glofish. I believe that they are thinking of issuing gloves with "left" and "right" marked on them to add the Boeing pilots with arrivals to their home base. 
At least the outcome seems to different from the famous MAN incident.
The Don
At least the outcome seems to different from the famous MAN incident.The Don
Join Date: Apr 2012
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nights out
Question to any EK 330 pilot.
I´m going to apply in the next future but i´d would like to know how many nights you have to spend outside home (Dubai) every month. I have a kid who need special care and it is important for me. Thanks
I´m going to apply in the next future but i´d would like to know how many nights you have to spend outside home (Dubai) every month. I have a kid who need special care and it is important for me. Thanks