A380 Cracking Up
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I've flown both, doesnt matter to me as long as I get paid...I do wonder though if the 787 develops cracks will they be able to detect them at an early stage?? Anybody here "in the know" on this??
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I could be in the know.
Expect - maybe - some structural problems on the junctions composite-classical stuff of the 787 one of those days...
As for he A300 which lost its rudder - the accident was caused by an idiotic pilot cycling the controls (BOTH rudder and ailerons, to maximum deflections, simultaneously, quickly and a couple of times...) after encountering a brief wake turbulence. Ever heard of inertia coupling, dutch roll ? Do that on any aircraft (Boeing, Airbus, Hercules, Citation, Convair Coronado, B24 liberator) and the airframe will break up somewhere. It's never tested by the industry (during what airline pilots call "certification" when they want to impress the new F/O) because test pilots are not suicidal...
A rudder doublet is what's used by test pilots to initiate dutch roll... INCREMENTALLY and in a controlled manner.
Those who fly Boeing and think it's an Airbus problem : just try that in your aircraft, and you will see (without me on board)
Airbus wings are built in England.
and it took Boeing 15 years or so to remove from their training manuals... that the inertial vector could be used in case of unreliable airspeed ! yes, what a joke it used to be.
As for companies training captains, they immediately switched to the new version without even a smallest wink....
Expect - maybe - some structural problems on the junctions composite-classical stuff of the 787 one of those days...
As for he A300 which lost its rudder - the accident was caused by an idiotic pilot cycling the controls (BOTH rudder and ailerons, to maximum deflections, simultaneously, quickly and a couple of times...) after encountering a brief wake turbulence. Ever heard of inertia coupling, dutch roll ? Do that on any aircraft (Boeing, Airbus, Hercules, Citation, Convair Coronado, B24 liberator) and the airframe will break up somewhere. It's never tested by the industry (during what airline pilots call "certification" when they want to impress the new F/O) because test pilots are not suicidal...
A rudder doublet is what's used by test pilots to initiate dutch roll... INCREMENTALLY and in a controlled manner.
Those who fly Boeing and think it's an Airbus problem : just try that in your aircraft, and you will see (without me on board)
Airbus wings are built in England.
and it took Boeing 15 years or so to remove from their training manuals... that the inertial vector could be used in case of unreliable airspeed ! yes, what a joke it used to be.
As for companies training captains, they immediately switched to the new version without even a smallest wink....
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Don't bother Matmax, iver and others just come from countries where they don't build aircraft, and where american movies have subtitiles because it wouldn't be economically viable to translate (thus giving them a slight advantage in english when they want to become airline pilots with Dad's money)
As for A380, Hong Kong Airlines just bought 10 of them.
And don't worry Matmax, apart from Airbus, we also build their cruise ships Queen something2, their nuclear bombs have an american release code, and they no longer have aircraft carriers.
It has always been difficult for americans (and their subservant aussies and similars) to accept that other nationalities can build aircraft, jet fighters, helicopters, missiles, satellites and nuclear submarines. Just remember how patronising they were when the first Airbus - the A300 - arrived in the 70s. Then for the A320 (it's a strange design - it will never sell...5000+ now ?) and now the 380. So just wait and see.
Now who did start it first ?
As for A380, Hong Kong Airlines just bought 10 of them.
And don't worry Matmax, apart from Airbus, we also build their cruise ships Queen something2, their nuclear bombs have an american release code, and they no longer have aircraft carriers.
It has always been difficult for americans (and their subservant aussies and similars) to accept that other nationalities can build aircraft, jet fighters, helicopters, missiles, satellites and nuclear submarines. Just remember how patronising they were when the first Airbus - the A300 - arrived in the 70s. Then for the A320 (it's a strange design - it will never sell...5000+ now ?) and now the 380. So just wait and see.
Now who did start it first ?
Last edited by Reinhardt; 10th Jan 2012 at 10:34.
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Why do these threads always descend to such base behaviour? If we want to get treated like the professionals we are, why do continue to give management ammunition to laugh at us. Please can we keep on topic and have some useful info. Instead of name calling and insulting nationalities....
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Now , if a simple Engineer can give his point of view to some of the best Pilots in the world : structure is a question of technology and not manufacturer ...
I have started my career on the old 747 and maybe some of you heard about section 41 as an example (nose gear wheel well)...
Cracks are everywhere ... and in both families.
There are tolerances about them , given by manufacturers in a book called SRM ... Structure Repair Manual (for the ones who does not know it).
Be sure that if an Engineer is signing a release with a known crack , he would have checked the book first or got the agreement from the manufacturer , what i mean is , that none of my brother will take any kind of risk with that ...
I have started my career on the old 747 and maybe some of you heard about section 41 as an example (nose gear wheel well)...
Cracks are everywhere ... and in both families.
There are tolerances about them , given by manufacturers in a book called SRM ... Structure Repair Manual (for the ones who does not know it).
Be sure that if an Engineer is signing a release with a known crack , he would have checked the book first or got the agreement from the manufacturer , what i mean is , that none of my brother will take any kind of risk with that ...
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Or is it because some of you have a childish mind and are not experienced in both Airbus and Boeings ...?
Real experienced people do not care if it is an Airbus or a Boeing ...
They are just doing their job.
I do not see where your management is involved in something here ...
But for sure , they will easily understand that they are managing kids.
Just my two cents.
Real experienced people do not care if it is an Airbus or a Boeing ...
They are just doing their job.
I do not see where your management is involved in something here ...
But for sure , they will easily understand that they are managing kids.
Just my two cents.
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Back to cracks!! The fact is most, if not all, aircraft will suffer from fatigue cracks/cracking at some point or other during their life. Once discovered, the operator will inform the manufacturer/ aviation authority. The operator may well take instruction from the manufacturer, with regards to what repair to carry out or if it is considered a standard repair, the operator may follow existing guidelines on repairing the defect.
The manufacturer and the relevant aviation authority will then decide how severe the issue is and what action, if any, must be taken with regards to this defect on all the other of the type flying, both in the short/medium and long term. Some defects will require immediate attention, some won't (eg section 41 747).
So it is rather simplistic for the Aussie ALAE to call for a grounding when they neither have all the information/ the expertise (metallurgy/stress analysis/etc) or responsibility.
We all play a part in aviation and we all have to trust the other guy/girl to do their bit, in this case we have to trust the manufacturer and the aviation authorities, just as we have all done so in the past, after all, it is what they are paid to do!
The manufacturer and the relevant aviation authority will then decide how severe the issue is and what action, if any, must be taken with regards to this defect on all the other of the type flying, both in the short/medium and long term. Some defects will require immediate attention, some won't (eg section 41 747).
So it is rather simplistic for the Aussie ALAE to call for a grounding when they neither have all the information/ the expertise (metallurgy/stress analysis/etc) or responsibility.
We all play a part in aviation and we all have to trust the other guy/girl to do their bit, in this case we have to trust the manufacturer and the aviation authorities, just as we have all done so in the past, after all, it is what they are paid to do!
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Whygaf,
Thank you for confirming what i was saying ...
Except about aviation authorities , as they have nothing to do in this kind of cases but just to be informed , thats it ...
I have been involved in many RAS , RDAS or whatever one is calling them in both Airbus and Boeings and i have never seen authorities involved in that and i do not see why they should be ...
About Aussies ALAEs , not a surprise to me that they are hiring europeans there and mostly Frenchies ... some people here will say that i am "arrogant" but thats the truth and simply the facts ...
Thank you for confirming what i was saying ...
Except about aviation authorities , as they have nothing to do in this kind of cases but just to be informed , thats it ...
I have been involved in many RAS , RDAS or whatever one is calling them in both Airbus and Boeings and i have never seen authorities involved in that and i do not see why they should be ...
About Aussies ALAEs , not a surprise to me that they are hiring europeans there and mostly Frenchies ... some people here will say that i am "arrogant" but thats the truth and simply the facts ...
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The aviation authorities are very much involved in significant structural defect assessement/ rectification, most authorities (FAA/EASA/CAA) require significant defects in primary structure to be reportable under their mandatory occurence reporting schemes.
So whilst you as an engineer may have had no contact with the aviation authorities directly, they are involved, certainly not in all defects (items already covered in the structural repair manual for example), but they would definately be involved in the a380 wing rib cracks.
With particular regards to this defect I believe the severity and number of cracks varies between aircraft so some may be grounded earlier for repair than others.
So whilst you as an engineer may have had no contact with the aviation authorities directly, they are involved, certainly not in all defects (items already covered in the structural repair manual for example), but they would definately be involved in the a380 wing rib cracks.
With particular regards to this defect I believe the severity and number of cracks varies between aircraft so some may be grounded earlier for repair than others.
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The way 380 jocks land the whale, I have no doubt they will start cracking and falling apart.
Is that aircraft difficult to land?
Doesn't matter which carrier, I have yet to have a landing in a 380 that couldn't be described as bone-jarring. (>12)
I, myself am merely a controlled crasher at the best of times, so I have a decent frame of reference : but holy smoke the guys thump that plane into the deck.
Is that aircraft difficult to land?
Doesn't matter which carrier, I have yet to have a landing in a 380 that couldn't be described as bone-jarring. (>12)
I, myself am merely a controlled crasher at the best of times, so I have a decent frame of reference : but holy smoke the guys thump that plane into the deck.
I think you're just unlucky. In over a year flying on it I've only experienced a handful of "firmer than usual" landings (seated both aft and fwd) usually due to weather, and in one case due to a bird choosing the wrong place to be at that critical moment... 
Could also be down to past types flown, but you guys would know more about that than I.
Have also experienced a few where I hadn't realised for a few seconds that we'd actually touched tarmac, credit where credit is due
Could also be down to past types flown, but you guys would know more about that than I.
Have also experienced a few where I hadn't realised for a few seconds that we'd actually touched tarmac, credit where credit is due
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Originally Posted by Sla-e
When are the authorities going to seriously scrutinise this paper aeroplane company?
Young man, the paper company once again did beat Boeing regarding the number of net orders for 2011 (1419 for AB, 805 for Boeing) same for deliveries and gross orders.
Airbus did take 87% of the market, for all of you to know.
What started as a little business in Toulouse in the middle of the 70s is now what you all can see.
And ATR, colocated in Toulouse the other side of the airport, sold 157 ATR72 and 42 in 2011, compared to .. 6 Q400 for Bombardier in the same period.
For you to remember next time you speak of a paper company.
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A380 Inspections due for Singapore Airlines, Emirates, Air France
Posted by Robert Wall at 1/20/2012 5:18 AM CST
Lead A380 operator Singapore Airlines has the most A380s affected by the European Aviation Safety Agency's call for inspection of wing rib-feet on the aircraft, although the airline does not foresee service disruptions.
Emirates Airlines also has to check seven of its aircraft, and Air France's first A380 falls under the EASA inspection regime detailed in this airworthiness directive. Airbus also has to inspect some of its test aircraft, which it already did as part of the assessment of what the problem with the L-shaped brackets might be.
EASA is requiring operators of A380s to perform a detailed visual inspection of aircraft with 1,800 flight cycles or more within four days or 14 flight cycles, whichever occurs first. For A380s with 1,300-1,800 flight cycles, the inspection has to take place within six weeks or 84 flight cycles.
EASA notes that this AD "is considered to be an interim action to immediately address this condition." But, it adds, "further mandatory actions might be considered" as a result of the on-going investigation.
The inspection regime involves draining the wing tanks and opening an access panel. Depending on local rules, the process takes a day or more. A repair action, if deemed necessary, would take several days.
Posted by Robert Wall at 1/20/2012 5:18 AM CST
Lead A380 operator Singapore Airlines has the most A380s affected by the European Aviation Safety Agency's call for inspection of wing rib-feet on the aircraft, although the airline does not foresee service disruptions.
Emirates Airlines also has to check seven of its aircraft, and Air France's first A380 falls under the EASA inspection regime detailed in this airworthiness directive. Airbus also has to inspect some of its test aircraft, which it already did as part of the assessment of what the problem with the L-shaped brackets might be.
EASA is requiring operators of A380s to perform a detailed visual inspection of aircraft with 1,800 flight cycles or more within four days or 14 flight cycles, whichever occurs first. For A380s with 1,300-1,800 flight cycles, the inspection has to take place within six weeks or 84 flight cycles.
EASA notes that this AD "is considered to be an interim action to immediately address this condition." But, it adds, "further mandatory actions might be considered" as a result of the on-going investigation.
The inspection regime involves draining the wing tanks and opening an access panel. Depending on local rules, the process takes a day or more. A repair action, if deemed necessary, would take several days.