The dark side of Dubai
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Think about the fact that in a civilized place the same worker would have a real salary, paid leave, his rights protected by a union, his civil right protected by law.
Granted, the situation for the poor in Dubai is pretty rough to say the least. In fact the situation for the majority of the planet is pretty rough. At least living in Dubai you stare into the face of poor who have no choices in their lives each day. That is a damn sight less sanctimonious and hypocritical enjoying my lifestyle and belongings, delivered to me through slave labour in a distant land, from the moral comfort of a sofa in the UK.
To be perfectly frank, the Dubai slavery thing seems to be something journos used when they ran dry of ideas. There is no more slavery in Dubai than any other part of the world that isn't Europe, US or Canada. Indeed Europe, US and Canada have their issues swept under the carpet, largely unreported with little political will to resolve. Sounds almost similar if you ask me.
Indeed, as per my link up above. The working conditions of many domestic staff are just as bad in the UK as they for maids in Dubai (for example). The record of abuse and confiscation of passports seems to be a real problem in the UK too, as is the fear of those abused immigrants in seeking help from the Police. Give that, it is obvious any Western nation would be barely any different if it had the need. If there is no real desire to deal with the issues of the underclass in the UK, then what chance would they stand if they were economically important?
Actually, I think the stones started from your side of the fence, there, Captonian.
Look, I agree that much need to be done to help the plight of exploited workers and poor people in general worldwide- no where more so than on your continent.
Indeed, much has improved since that article was written, largely due to the UAE knowing it needs to clean up it's act or lose a lot of the international prestige it requires if it wants to engage with the rest of the world.
No such advancement in Saudi, though, as they don't CARE about international engagement. They just keep shipping out the oil.
So is it better to bring the UAE into the International arena (and, therefore, spotlight) or leave it up to it's own devices in isolation (which wouldn't hurt the local population one bit)?
Look, I agree that much need to be done to help the plight of exploited workers and poor people in general worldwide- no where more so than on your continent.
Indeed, much has improved since that article was written, largely due to the UAE knowing it needs to clean up it's act or lose a lot of the international prestige it requires if it wants to engage with the rest of the world.
No such advancement in Saudi, though, as they don't CARE about international engagement. They just keep shipping out the oil.
So is it better to bring the UAE into the International arena (and, therefore, spotlight) or leave it up to it's own devices in isolation (which wouldn't hurt the local population one bit)?
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UAE Population
Population is defined as all residents. From "Guide2Dubai":
"The UAE population was estimated to be 8.19mn in 2010, out of which, only less than 20 percent constitute UAE nationals or Emiratis. The rest of the population, are expatriates. The net migration rate of the country is 22.98, the highest in the world
Among the expatriate population in the UAE, 23% are non-emirati Arabs and Persians, while more than 50% are from South Asia. Nearly 1.75mn are Indian nationals residing in the UAE, which makes them the single largest expatriate community in the country. The other major groups include Pakistanis (1.25mn) and Bangladeshis (600,000). The rest one million of the population are from other parts of Asia including Iran, Philippines, and Sri Lanka. The others are from other Arab States."
UAE population 8.19mn, Dubai population 1.87mn in 2010
"The UAE population was estimated to be 8.19mn in 2010, out of which, only less than 20 percent constitute UAE nationals or Emiratis. The rest of the population, are expatriates. The net migration rate of the country is 22.98, the highest in the world
Among the expatriate population in the UAE, 23% are non-emirati Arabs and Persians, while more than 50% are from South Asia. Nearly 1.75mn are Indian nationals residing in the UAE, which makes them the single largest expatriate community in the country. The other major groups include Pakistanis (1.25mn) and Bangladeshis (600,000). The rest one million of the population are from other parts of Asia including Iran, Philippines, and Sri Lanka. The others are from other Arab States."
UAE population 8.19mn, Dubai population 1.87mn in 2010
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Originally Posted by jetaim
I suggest to all of you Dubai apologists to spend a day in labour camp in Jebel Ali and share a working day with a bangladeshi worker in July with 49 C and 99% humidity under the scorching sun. Then think again. Think about the fact that in a civilized place the same worker would have a real salary, paid leave, his rights protected by a union, his civil right protected by law ,a real house and a family and not 140 USd a month, no leave, his passport confiscated, a room in a concentration camp and his family 2000 miles away.
You mean; he could stay in Bangladesh working under scorching sun in 120% humidity and get **** all pay... Why, Jetaim, do you think these people flock to the GCC? $140 per month is more than the average annual wage in Bangladesh I imagine...
And have you seen the damage that unions can do? I was a member of one once (BALPA). Biggest waste of money in my career!
I don't condone the treatment by the people here! But the migrant workers DO have a choice!!!
But 'they were lied to' I hear some of you say... Well, naivety is no excuse!
And before casting stones - maybe some of OUR governments need to sort out various slave-trades in our own backyards, such as young girls from the Ukraine and Moldova used in Western Europe as sex slaves
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WK who are you trying to convince? Yourself or the reader of this forum? Because in the first case that would show a little sensitivity which after reading your acritical and honestlly quite bovine support of EK would be a surprise Do you have a conscience ??? Or is it folded in your wallet?
The substantial difference between the Eastern european sex worker on the street of a western city and the Bangladeshi worker is that the sex worker is exploited by an illegal organization. She has still the chance, as many did , to go to a police station and denounce her exploiters. In the Bangladeshi worker in case it is the Dubai police ,the very Government, to keep him enslaved. I remember reading somewhere the first hand story of an indian worker's recruitment. Fake promises on salary and leave and once he was in Dubai and found out that the situation was way different his passport was gone. I think the most recent and closest example of such a form of organized istitutional enslavement practices dates back to the 30s,40s .The nazi concentration camps (and not only that aspect of that doctrine ) probably inspired and still inspires some of your dish dashed friends.
The substantial difference between the Eastern european sex worker on the street of a western city and the Bangladeshi worker is that the sex worker is exploited by an illegal organization. She has still the chance, as many did , to go to a police station and denounce her exploiters. In the Bangladeshi worker in case it is the Dubai police ,the very Government, to keep him enslaved. I remember reading somewhere the first hand story of an indian worker's recruitment. Fake promises on salary and leave and once he was in Dubai and found out that the situation was way different his passport was gone. I think the most recent and closest example of such a form of organized istitutional enslavement practices dates back to the 30s,40s .The nazi concentration camps (and not only that aspect of that doctrine ) probably inspired and still inspires some of your dish dashed friends.
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Originally Posted by Jetaim
WK who are you trying to convince? Yourself or the reader of this forum? Because in the first case that would show a little sensitivity which after reading your acritical and honestlly quite bovine support of EK would be a surprise Do you have a conscience ??? Or is it folded in your wallet?
The substantial difference between the Eastern european sex worker on the street of a western city and the Bangladeshi worker is that the sex worker is exploited by an illegal organization. She has still the chance, as many did , to go to a police station and denounce her exploiters. In the Bangladeshi worker in case it is the Dubai police ,the very Government, to keep him enslaved. I remember reading somewhere the first hand story of an indian worker's recruitment. Fake promises on salary and leave and once he was in Dubai and found out that the situation was way different his passport was gone. I think the most recent and closest example of such a form of organized istitutional enslavement practices dates back to the 30s,40s .The nazi concentration camps (and not only that aspect of that doctrine ) probably inspired and still inspires some of your dish dashed friends.
The substantial difference between the Eastern european sex worker on the street of a western city and the Bangladeshi worker is that the sex worker is exploited by an illegal organization. She has still the chance, as many did , to go to a police station and denounce her exploiters. In the Bangladeshi worker in case it is the Dubai police ,the very Government, to keep him enslaved. I remember reading somewhere the first hand story of an indian worker's recruitment. Fake promises on salary and leave and once he was in Dubai and found out that the situation was way different his passport was gone. I think the most recent and closest example of such a form of organized istitutional enslavement practices dates back to the 30s,40s .The nazi concentration camps (and not only that aspect of that doctrine ) probably inspired and still inspires some of your dish dashed friends.
As for the Indian worker who recieved fake promises and a disappearing passport. Hmmm. Not so different to those poor young girls ensnared in the sex trade in Europe........ And the Indian worker doesn't get RAPED
Do YOU have a conscience? Or are you just stupid
Do your brats like cheap Nike shirts, or cheap crappy Man U shirts? Guess where they're made!! Cheap sweatshops in Chittagong most likely
PS - Was I supporting EK in my post?
Fond regards and love
WK
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Originally Posted by SI
your future wife will be driving down Shk Zayed Road in her Land Cruiser, texting her pals back in Manchester.
And nor do we use the jolly old mobile when the wheels are in motion... Call us old-fashioned and all that!And it's a Patrol, not a crappy modern LR.
Keep smiling sunshine
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And now SI - to reply to your other nonsense:
Just how much freedom of expression do you think these guys have in their own country?
Have you not seen them having the crap kicked out of them by their own police in the streets of Dakar, Bombay, Lahore etc in the news? Even queueing for tickets for the T20 cricket gets them smacked around the head!!!
Some of you on this forum are incredibly stupid beyond belief
Oh SI! Another nice libellous quote from you - on top of the 'you must be a crap pilot', 'your CRM is crap', 'you hate people' kind of crap I expect from you! FYI I don't subjugate anyone, nor do I condone it! However, the reality of the situation of these people is beyond your grasp! Have you tried feeding your little kiddies bark when they're hungry? (That's assuming said kids are yours of course
)
Pilots.... Pprune and various other independent sources of info
Migrant workers....PpMigrantworkers?? no other independent sources
Pilots......Reputable or at least somewhat reputable hiring agencies
MW's..... local scumbag, slave-traders lying about job conditions
Pilots.... the ability to leave if they so choose
MW's.... can I please have my passport back
Pilots.... the financial ability to leave if required
MW's.... can't leave even if they had their passport because they have not been paid in 6 months
Migrant workers....PpMigrantworkers?? no other independent sources
Pilots......Reputable or at least somewhat reputable hiring agencies
MW's..... local scumbag, slave-traders lying about job conditions
Pilots.... the ability to leave if they so choose
MW's.... can I please have my passport back
Pilots.... the financial ability to leave if required
MW's.... can't leave even if they had their passport because they have not been paid in 6 months
Have you not seen them having the crap kicked out of them by their own police in the streets of Dakar, Bombay, Lahore etc in the news? Even queueing for tickets for the T20 cricket gets them smacked around the head!!!
Some of you on this forum are incredibly stupid beyond belief
Originally Posted by SI
This from someone who simply doesn't care about other human-beings. Subjugate those you can!!! Especially if its to your benefit.
)
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Originally Posted by SI
YOU suggest that my CRM is bad and I hate people
'Subtle threat'? No! You have just sent many libellous posts my way! the fact that I don't give a stuff is neither here nor there!
Therefore you are condoning and even admiring the tactics of another country
YOU suggest that my CRM is bad and I hate people, is exactly the opposite of reality. You never cease to amaze me WhightKnight. How could you possibly try to TURN my concern for all human-beings...... into bad CRM and a lack of concern for other people?
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Whight Knight / sittingidly
It appears recently that whatever ME forum I turn to, the end result appears the same. An immature, emotional and overheated slanging match between the two of you.
Whilst I'm all for people expressing different viewpoints, this level of bickering serves little purpose other than ruin these threads. Sort your differences out via PM's and please leave these forums for adult discussions, not personal penis competitions.
Harry
It appears recently that whatever ME forum I turn to, the end result appears the same. An immature, emotional and overheated slanging match between the two of you.
Whilst I'm all for people expressing different viewpoints, this level of bickering serves little purpose other than ruin these threads. Sort your differences out via PM's and please leave these forums for adult discussions, not personal penis competitions.
Harry
I Have Control
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Funnily enough as a Brit, I consciously avoid buying any fresh produce from S.A, and ditto their wine. And I have no problem with Israeli fruit and veg. Never saw anything to buy from U.A. E. Capetonian is correct though. We all can make choices.
(I wonder if he knows the source of some components inside the device he wrote his words with?)
(I wonder if he knows the source of some components inside the device he wrote his words with?)
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Funnily enough as a Brit, I consciously avoid buying any fresh produce from S.A, and ditto their wine.
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There might be something to this Interpol thing in DXB.
The owner of Midex airlines uses this to threaten the pilots there constantly.
For leaving in the middle of the night without the required 30 days notice in the contract.
But what is seriously wrong about this is the ones that left had their contracts changed severely long before the expiration date with terms and conditions.
I worked there for 3 years,,had valid UAE license, GCAA medical,Employment/labor card etc.At the end of this contract they came out and said we dont pay the end of contract bonus because we operate it the free zone and dont fall under UAE labor laws.
Yet if you leave and piss this guy off he will use the labor laws to come after you.
Midex still owes me over 11,000 USD according to the labor laws.
Yet the GCAA shut Midex down for flight time and cover up breaches 1.5 years ago.
Something seriously wrong here with this picture.
I left the correct way all debts paid credit card etc,, yet still was cheated on my final salary with full and complete contract completion.
If I had to do it all over again would be much different.
As I think interpol has much more greater concerns than chasing down ones that owe the banks there , the banks there not so honest anyway.
I worked in KSA for saudia 2 times many years and never seen anything like this.
Always left there with more money than I expected at the end.
Never did they try and cheat me,like in the so call civilized UAE.
Yet the labor department and GCAA allows these bottom feeders to continue operations there.
The owner of Midex airlines uses this to threaten the pilots there constantly.
For leaving in the middle of the night without the required 30 days notice in the contract.
But what is seriously wrong about this is the ones that left had their contracts changed severely long before the expiration date with terms and conditions.
I worked there for 3 years,,had valid UAE license, GCAA medical,Employment/labor card etc.At the end of this contract they came out and said we dont pay the end of contract bonus because we operate it the free zone and dont fall under UAE labor laws.
Yet if you leave and piss this guy off he will use the labor laws to come after you.
Midex still owes me over 11,000 USD according to the labor laws.
Yet the GCAA shut Midex down for flight time and cover up breaches 1.5 years ago.
Something seriously wrong here with this picture.
I left the correct way all debts paid credit card etc,, yet still was cheated on my final salary with full and complete contract completion.
If I had to do it all over again would be much different.
As I think interpol has much more greater concerns than chasing down ones that owe the banks there , the banks there not so honest anyway.
I worked in KSA for saudia 2 times many years and never seen anything like this.
Always left there with more money than I expected at the end.
Never did they try and cheat me,like in the so call civilized UAE.
Yet the labor department and GCAA allows these bottom feeders to continue operations there.
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Capetonian,
Interesting take on life in Dubai and your consequent moral stance on EK and the UAE in general. Admirable.
I think I'm going to apply your rationale and boycott SAA, based on your exact principals.
Thousands of innocent people murdered annually, highest rape rate in the world and a government reluctant to tackle the highest incidence of HIV on the planet.
That, my friend, is nothing short of gross human rights violations.
Interesting take on life in Dubai and your consequent moral stance on EK and the UAE in general. Admirable.
I think I'm going to apply your rationale and boycott SAA, based on your exact principals.
Thousands of innocent people murdered annually, highest rape rate in the world and a government reluctant to tackle the highest incidence of HIV on the planet.
That, my friend, is nothing short of gross human rights violations.
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journeyman
Do you think for one moment I care if you boycott SAA? Whom do you think that is going to help, or detriment? They'll probably just about survive witout your business.
You don't need to tell me about thousands of innocent people murdered annually, highest rape rate in the world and a government reluctant to tackle the highest incidence of HIV on the planet as we are all vey much aware of it.
Do you think we all voted for the bunch of criminal thugs who are now running the country? There is an implicit message in your statement that we are responsible for, or in favour of, the current regime.
Do you think for one moment I care if you boycott SAA? Whom do you think that is going to help, or detriment? They'll probably just about survive witout your business.
You don't need to tell me about thousands of innocent people murdered annually, highest rape rate in the world and a government reluctant to tackle the highest incidence of HIV on the planet as we are all vey much aware of it.
Do you think we all voted for the bunch of criminal thugs who are now running the country? There is an implicit message in your statement that we are responsible for, or in favour of, the current regime.
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Capetonian,
As EK will survive without yours.
Perhaps you should clean up your own backyard before pointing fingers at everyone else's. Whether you voted those people in or not, you are still a resident, yes?
In the interests of keeping the already very narrow SA tax base intact, I strongly suggest you start worrying less about the hypocracy in the Middle East and concentrate more on stopping your countrymen from culling each other.
As EK will survive without yours.
Perhaps you should clean up your own backyard before pointing fingers at everyone else's. Whether you voted those people in or not, you are still a resident, yes?
In the interests of keeping the already very narrow SA tax base intact, I strongly suggest you start worrying less about the hypocracy in the Middle East and concentrate more on stopping your countrymen from culling each other.
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Perhaps you should clean up your own backyard
Whether you voted those people in or not, you are still a resident, yes?
I strongly suggest ........... you concentrate more on stopping your countrymen from culling each other.
I don't really think you have the knowledge to opine on this, but if you do, then I am looking forward to your views. On the other hand,, whilst I don't claim to be an expert on Dubai I have spent a reasonable amount of time in the Emirates, mostly - unfortunately for several reasons - in Dubai.
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I am guessing SA had a lower crime and rape rate while under aparthide. Perhaps they should go back to that to keep some posters happy
I expect the second part of your comment is meant to be sarcastic, but let me give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it wasn't.
Very few reasonable people would want to revert to apartheid, although it had its merits from the perspective of the ruling 'elite' and those who benefited from it, it was a fundamentally unfair system.
What we did have in those days though, was a functioning infrastructure and a government which knew what it was doing - although a lot of what it was doing was wrong. We had accountability to a greater extent than now, and there was less crime and insecurity, less unemployment, and less xenophobia (ignoring for the time being the idiotic 'homelands' policy).
There is less freedom of information now than there was under the Nationalist government, and whilst racism as such no longer has an official place in legislation, it exists under a different name, BEE, or affirmative employment, and is more virulent and insidious than it was before. It is also destroying the power blocks of the country's economy by placing people in positions they are not fit to occupy, purely because of their lower reflective index and regardless of competence, education and experience.
Perhaps those of you who are so ready to snipe at those posters who, like myself, maintain that the majority of people in South Africa were better off under the old system should do a little homework before going on the offensive.
It's interesting to see how this has gone off topic purely because my username on this forum is 'Capetonian'. If I had posted my comments about Dubai under the name 'Fred Bloggs', or 'Maserati Fan' none of this sniping would have taken place. Talk about judging a book by its cover, but no doubt we are all guilty of that to a degree.