Disparities in EK Remuneration Policy?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA - CHINA STHN
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ERP
The ERP is designed to compensate for having to send money home - it is capped and gradually over time winds out of the system..
It is one of the few conditions of service they have not tweaked ( unlike others) so frankly it is pretty good that they still do it.
As far as equal work for equal pay - yeah I can see that - however this was a t+c for everyone before they joined so if you wanted you could have joined from a currency that suited you better if you had read the HR manual first I guess ( not sure if it is passport based maybe - which throws that idea but just a thought if it was recruitment base? Not sure of the rule).
If you think it is unfair having some guys on ERP , try being the ones that have had their currency go from a low of 1.9 to one to over 4:1 - and having to send money home to pay home based bills from before joining ...
that hurts more! BTW my pay has gone from just shy of 350 000 AUD to below 230 AUD in sub 2 years - try to cope with that variation with out too much stress when you are stitched up with loans back home..!
Maybe they should just pay us in our local currency when we join... but that is an entirely bigger can of worms!
I get your point but there are two sides to it....
WJA
It is one of the few conditions of service they have not tweaked ( unlike others) so frankly it is pretty good that they still do it.
As far as equal work for equal pay - yeah I can see that - however this was a t+c for everyone before they joined so if you wanted you could have joined from a currency that suited you better if you had read the HR manual first I guess ( not sure if it is passport based maybe - which throws that idea but just a thought if it was recruitment base? Not sure of the rule).
If you think it is unfair having some guys on ERP , try being the ones that have had their currency go from a low of 1.9 to one to over 4:1 - and having to send money home to pay home based bills from before joining ...
that hurts more! BTW my pay has gone from just shy of 350 000 AUD to below 230 AUD in sub 2 years - try to cope with that variation with out too much stress when you are stitched up with loans back home..!
Maybe they should just pay us in our local currency when we join... but that is an entirely bigger can of worms!
I get your point but there are two sides to it....
WJA
Join Date: Oct 2004
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The same old argument every year or so.....
I want ERP even though it doesn't affect me.
I want the education allowance even though I don't have kids.
I want a bigger villa like the one my friend with 4 kids has even though I'm by myself.
I want the 350,000AED someone got in medical bills even though I'm perfectly healthy.
What's your point cerbus? You want the money even though none of these things affect you, or you just don't want others to be compensated for things that actually affect them?
I want ERP even though it doesn't affect me.
I want the education allowance even though I don't have kids.
I want a bigger villa like the one my friend with 4 kids has even though I'm by myself.
I want the 350,000AED someone got in medical bills even though I'm perfectly healthy.
What's your point cerbus? You want the money even though none of these things affect you, or you just don't want others to be compensated for things that actually affect them?
Last edited by Kamelchaser; 6th Aug 2011 at 13:28.
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I want it fair and equal for all. I know that is down right impossible especially since we live in the middle east but just a point I will throw out.
A bigger villa does not effect your paycheck. Not getting the education allowance if you do not have kids again does not effect your paycheck.
Receiving an extra 30,000 dhs a year and keeping your money in Dubai is a huge bonus.
A bigger villa does not effect your paycheck. Not getting the education allowance if you do not have kids again does not effect your paycheck.
Receiving an extra 30,000 dhs a year and keeping your money in Dubai is a huge bonus.
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So, again Cerbus,
Do you want something you don't need, or do you just want to stop others getting something they actually do need?
I know very few people here who don't repatriate whatever they can to their home countries for mortgages, families etc.
In that respect, the only people not affected by the massive drop in the value of the US peso are the Americans themselves or anyone with a currency tied to the USD.
My currency has appreciated almost 100% in the time I've been here. The small amount of ERP I receive certainly nowhere near compensates, but I'll take it as;
1. I need it.
2. It was in my contract (same as your contract I guess but..again..you don't seem to be affected by the currency fluctuations do you?).
So...stop bleating about something that doesn't affect you fella. You're certainly not getting much sympathy from anyone except those from the good 'ol US of A.
As an aside; EK makes a fortune from a weak USD, so I doubt they care too much about the pittance they hand out in ERP.
Do you want something you don't need, or do you just want to stop others getting something they actually do need?
I know very few people here who don't repatriate whatever they can to their home countries for mortgages, families etc.
In that respect, the only people not affected by the massive drop in the value of the US peso are the Americans themselves or anyone with a currency tied to the USD.
My currency has appreciated almost 100% in the time I've been here. The small amount of ERP I receive certainly nowhere near compensates, but I'll take it as;
1. I need it.
2. It was in my contract (same as your contract I guess but..again..you don't seem to be affected by the currency fluctuations do you?).
So...stop bleating about something that doesn't affect you fella. You're certainly not getting much sympathy from anyone except those from the good 'ol US of A.
As an aside; EK makes a fortune from a weak USD, so I doubt they care too much about the pittance they hand out in ERP.
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I am effected by the currency peg because of the (some would call it runaway) inflation in the UAE. I have to pay more for everyday items and am not getting any extra even though my currency is pegged to the $.
Most of the imports I want and buy come from Europe and those products have increased dramatically. It sure would be nice getting some extra money that most pilots are receiving.
Just because "most" pilots receive an item does not make it fair. I need the extra money to Kamel. Do you think you are the only one who needs the extra money living in Dubai. We all know how expensive it is here to live.
I can't imagine your country not going through hard times right now, that is if you come from a 1st world country because most G20 countries are in serious trouble.
Most of the imports I want and buy come from Europe and those products have increased dramatically. It sure would be nice getting some extra money that most pilots are receiving.
Just because "most" pilots receive an item does not make it fair. I need the extra money to Kamel. Do you think you are the only one who needs the extra money living in Dubai. We all know how expensive it is here to live.
I can't imagine your country not going through hard times right now, that is if you come from a 1st world country because most G20 countries are in serious trouble.
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Man, you non-ERP guys just don't get it do you....(actually that's quite funny as you actually don't get the ERP do you
)
Back to the serious argument...
ERP has nothing to do with the cost of things in Dubai. Never was designed for that, never will be.
If you're worried about inflation to cover your in country costs, then argue for a pay-rise, not an allowance to cover it. (By the way, inflation is a worldwide problem right now, not just here in Dubai).
I would rather give my ERP back and have my home currency affordable; I'd be far better off.
Good luck to those (few) who get ERP and DON'T have mortgages and families to support back in their home countries.
)Back to the serious argument...
ERP has nothing to do with the cost of things in Dubai. Never was designed for that, never will be.
If you're worried about inflation to cover your in country costs, then argue for a pay-rise, not an allowance to cover it. (By the way, inflation is a worldwide problem right now, not just here in Dubai).
I would rather give my ERP back and have my home currency affordable; I'd be far better off.
Good luck to those (few) who get ERP and DON'T have mortgages and families to support back in their home countries.
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Is one allowed to be from the UK and be against the ERP? At one time I was getting 2375 dhs a month from the currency protection. This was incredibly unfair as not everyone received the extra money. I did mention to TCAS back in the day how unfair it was and should be abolish but to no avail. I did keep the money not matter how unfair it was which I am sure I will get slagged off about it. I couldn't find a worthy charity in Dubai to donate it to so I took the money and donated it to the Red Cross in the UK.
Pilots say it is in their "contract" so the ERP must stay but I will ask when did EK start honouring our contract?
Pilots say it is in their "contract" so the ERP must stay but I will ask when did EK start honouring our contract?
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Kamelchaser:
Thank you for your correction on the sim remuneriation. You are quite correct. The fact that this doesnt count to fatigue however remains laughable and if considered logically is simply dangerous and defeats the whole intention on limitations to flight and duty time. A good lawyer would tear it to shreds given some event that made it relevant.
On the ERP issue. First lets understand it everyone.
50% of your salary is protected to up to 15%. The max it can ever be is 7.5% of salary. Hence if you earn 40000 pm it would be 3000 at max. That assumes the base currency continues to rise. It could start at 3000 but because of the rolling average eventually be 0 even though your base currency remained high.
It is fundamentally unfair based on the fact that pilots are essentially international citizens often with interests in more than one country.
My take is it should be worked against a basket of currencies and given to all. The dirham has dropped against almost every currency and that almost proves the point.
But again thread drift.
The issue to return to is the differing policies on remuneration.
Bottom line: In training they reward for amount of duties. On the line they do not.
Grossly unfair. Illogicallly. Indefensible. Discriminatory.
Doesnt look good for a big company. Come on EK. You are good, you have high standards dont stoop to this.
Thank you for your correction on the sim remuneriation. You are quite correct. The fact that this doesnt count to fatigue however remains laughable and if considered logically is simply dangerous and defeats the whole intention on limitations to flight and duty time. A good lawyer would tear it to shreds given some event that made it relevant.
On the ERP issue. First lets understand it everyone.
50% of your salary is protected to up to 15%. The max it can ever be is 7.5% of salary. Hence if you earn 40000 pm it would be 3000 at max. That assumes the base currency continues to rise. It could start at 3000 but because of the rolling average eventually be 0 even though your base currency remained high.
It is fundamentally unfair based on the fact that pilots are essentially international citizens often with interests in more than one country.
My take is it should be worked against a basket of currencies and given to all. The dirham has dropped against almost every currency and that almost proves the point.
But again thread drift.
The issue to return to is the differing policies on remuneration.
Bottom line: In training they reward for amount of duties. On the line they do not.
Grossly unfair. Illogicallly. Indefensible. Discriminatory.
Doesnt look good for a big company. Come on EK. You are good, you have high standards dont stoop to this.
Last edited by Your Proxy; 8th Aug 2011 at 19:38.
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The company has a Fatigue Management System but IMHO it does not cater for the real issues. The analogy would be an aircraft maintenance system that accounted for hours but not cycles. Both are relevant.
If key elements are ignored the system then appears to look responsible and compliant. Exactly how everyone wants it to look as then this absolves responsiblity in an unpleasant fatigue related incident.
I have my self heard managers claim that this or that has been checked against the FMS which showed no problem. It is hilarious when the problem is often clearly obvious to the average man.
Unfortunately anyone who invented an accurate, comprehensive and robust FMS would not find any airline to sell it to!
Hence the best FMS in the industry must be the one that works best for the airline. Anyone with a shred of common sense could probably find enough holes in most FMS's big enough to fly a 380 through.
If key elements are ignored the system then appears to look responsible and compliant. Exactly how everyone wants it to look as then this absolves responsiblity in an unpleasant fatigue related incident.
I have my self heard managers claim that this or that has been checked against the FMS which showed no problem. It is hilarious when the problem is often clearly obvious to the average man.
Unfortunately anyone who invented an accurate, comprehensive and robust FMS would not find any airline to sell it to!
Hence the best FMS in the industry must be the one that works best for the airline. Anyone with a shred of common sense could probably find enough holes in most FMS's big enough to fly a 380 through.
