Moving to the ME with family
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Moving to the ME with family
Hi
I may have a job opportunity with a Middle Eastern Carrier (EY). I am married with 2 young children (1 & 4) and have never been to the Middle East before.
It would be good to hear from anyone that has done similar and to hear in general about the life out there and the major differences to living in the UK.
If its been done many times on here then a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated. I have tried to search and looked through the threads buit maybe I have missed one.
Regards
I may have a job opportunity with a Middle Eastern Carrier (EY). I am married with 2 young children (1 & 4) and have never been to the Middle East before.
It would be good to hear from anyone that has done similar and to hear in general about the life out there and the major differences to living in the UK.
If its been done many times on here then a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated. I have tried to search and looked through the threads buit maybe I have missed one.
Regards
Join Date: Feb 2001
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tend to agree with the above. In my humble opinion you are much better off in the right seat at EK than direct entry left seat at EY (unless you are joining the 777/340fleet @ EY). What little you give up in terms of pay you will more than make up for in quality of life. No point coming here to work yourself to death. What fleet are you planning to join? Hate to be a downer but you might want to reconsider. Once you are here in the ME they will not let you switch carriers. So choose wisely!! Your wife would almost certainly be happier in Dubai with all it has to offer (good and bad) than an apartment in Mussafah or a villa out in the middle of nowhere.
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I moved to ME last year (west of EY!) with family (one youngster) and so far it is not as bad as most will have you believe.
(Flak jacket donned)
Life is very different out here. The weather is very different. The way the companies are run is very different too. Whether it is better or worse for you is only down to how you approach the move. Everything is certainly not a bed of roses though.
I came expecting a long wait to start training, I came expecting poor training standards and a busy roster. I also came knowing about an interesting route structure and good pay (comparatively when the lack of tax is considered)
So far may experiences are.....a long wait for training, better than expected training standards, busy but not bad roster, reasonable routes and good pay!
There is not a huge amount for the family to do, but there are plenty of kids clubs, play areas etc for the very little ones... I'm not sure what Abu D is like though. There is a good ex-pat community and it is very easy to make new friends as everyone is in the same boat....Plenty of young families out here too and everyone seems pretty happy.
As I said before, how happy you are here depends on what you are expecting.......
Hope this helps.
SSS
(Flak jacket donned)
Life is very different out here. The weather is very different. The way the companies are run is very different too. Whether it is better or worse for you is only down to how you approach the move. Everything is certainly not a bed of roses though.
I came expecting a long wait to start training, I came expecting poor training standards and a busy roster. I also came knowing about an interesting route structure and good pay (comparatively when the lack of tax is considered)
So far may experiences are.....a long wait for training, better than expected training standards, busy but not bad roster, reasonable routes and good pay!
There is not a huge amount for the family to do, but there are plenty of kids clubs, play areas etc for the very little ones... I'm not sure what Abu D is like though. There is a good ex-pat community and it is very easy to make new friends as everyone is in the same boat....Plenty of young families out here too and everyone seems pretty happy.
As I said before, how happy you are here depends on what you are expecting.......
Hope this helps.
SSS
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The Middle East is such a broad area with many different lifestyles depending where you settle. And that boils down to the carrier you may work for.....
So, most of the replies actually answer your question
So, most of the replies actually answer your question
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And thats why I specified an airline rather than just saying ME. However I didn't want a debate about which airline to work for.
Thanks again for all the replies and PM's.
Thanks again for all the replies and PM's.
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Your lifestyle obviously depends on the carrier you work for. If youre miserable your family soon pick up on it and it wont be long before it affects your whole life.The best saying is Happywife Happylife!!Make sure you visit and do your research before leaving home cause its no place to bring a weak marriage Good luck with your decision
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You don't want a debate about which airline to work for yet you are asking what life is like in the Middle East. Depending on which airline you choose it can either be fun and interesting or an endless roster of night turns to India. Everybody makes their own choices in life. But do yourself a favor and talk to multiple pilots at EY before making the move. EK, while not perfect, is a much rosier scenario for yourself and your family. You might have to wait one more year to upgrade but you will be so much happier in my opinion.
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I don't have a short fuse and maybe should have used a smiley face with my reply. The problem with typing on a forum is its hard to get let people know how you are phrasing something. 
I just don't want people to waste their time typing messages about why I should or shouldn't join a particular airline. I may have a job offer with EY, nobody else. That is not the issue.
I was looking for info about housing, schooling, medical and genrally living in that area as a westerner.
Thanks again
I just don't want people to waste their time typing messages about why I should or shouldn't join a particular airline. I may have a job offer with EY, nobody else. That is not the issue.
I was looking for info about housing, schooling, medical and genrally living in that area as a westerner.
Thanks again
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Lots of decent schools available, plenty of expats to socialize with, good restaurants, sailing, beaches, watersports, social clubs, golf, lots of supermarkets, plenty of alcohol, bars, cheap cars, taxis are inexpensive, mobile/internet choices are limited and somewhat overpriced but it could be much worse. Life during the summer months is difficult. But for six months of the year it's beautiful. The cultural adjustment might be a bit of a shock at first. There is a dark side to the uae with regards to labor abuses, lack of equal rights, traffic collisions, etc. But all in all you can live a good life out here. I would recommend finding some of the UAE expat forums and just reading every post you can find. It will give you a good glimpse of life in the UAE.
Best of luck
Best of luck
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If you need the job then take it, if you have a job and decent life back home then keep it. The ME is a hard place to live in general and even worse for a family with very young kids. The only benefit from your kids perspective is that the schools are good, however as your kid will be going very soon, youre probably too late to register them in time for the better ones, so will end up taking whats available. Your wife will also probably spend all day driving the kids back and forth to a school thats miles away.
Life here is very frustrating and requires more effort. Alot of the people who you need to do things for you, will not actually be able to these things with any degree of competence. ie forget about the phone man coming to install the phone on the agreed date and forget about it working thereafter, and itll be your job to sort it out. If you can live with maybe 10% of a task being done, then you will be fine.
The facilities for enjoyment and quality of life for both kids and adults are few and far between and the lifestyle is not at all varied. You can forget about walking as theres not really any sidewalks to walk upon and usually its too hot anyway. Think beaches (too hot to stand on for part of year), dessert tours (not great for kids) and swimming for most of your regular activities, but these have limits. Theres no forests, no open meadows, no animals, no rivers, no weather (except warm and hot), no bar lunches by the lakes, very few museums and very few public attractions or quality festivals/activities to entertain you. There's next to no nature or colour to speak of, and any that is here, is man made and soulless.
Most of the areas within a couple hours flight look the same, (dust and rubble and white washed run down villas in the middle of a patch of sand) so you can forget about those weekend cultural trips to interesting places such as AMS, CDG, DUB as a 1 hour trip here will get you to somewhere with pretty much the same blandness and culture, but with even less to do than AUH. (DXB excepted). 4 hours flight may get you somewhere with a bit of variety and difference.
The appeal of the cash wears off very quickly when you realise you only get 8 days off per month. I worked out that i earn about the same per hour worked as i did in the UK, the only difference being here I work far more hours, hence earn more and pay no tax. However the cost of living is higher here and you will have less free time to see your family.
There is one or two good things - Its safe and you will meet like minded people and do lots of house socialising. You will like the big car you have for next to nothing and the massive villa you will rent, and the ability to save money, the house maids cleaning up after you. But if you enjoy life outdoors, variety, time with your family, close friends and most importantly choice, this is not the place to come to. The things to do here are the things you do once or twice then thats it. Theres not really enough going on that is so interesting that you can do it over and over. Theres no 'hyde park' for example, although Dubai has creek park which is fantastic.
The reason we stay here is for the access to the Southern Hemisphere and Asia. With the ID tickets we have been to loads of places, which from Europe are not quite as convenient to get to with kids in tow. So we put up with it for that but will be going back to Europe before the kids are too old to have missed out on what I think is a better life in Europe.
If the money was the same back home and you still had a job, would you give it up to come here? Take the cash from the equation and you will know what your answer is. For me I had no job back home and a job here is better than no job there. Be very careful to come here if your life back home is fine.
Life here is very frustrating and requires more effort. Alot of the people who you need to do things for you, will not actually be able to these things with any degree of competence. ie forget about the phone man coming to install the phone on the agreed date and forget about it working thereafter, and itll be your job to sort it out. If you can live with maybe 10% of a task being done, then you will be fine.
The facilities for enjoyment and quality of life for both kids and adults are few and far between and the lifestyle is not at all varied. You can forget about walking as theres not really any sidewalks to walk upon and usually its too hot anyway. Think beaches (too hot to stand on for part of year), dessert tours (not great for kids) and swimming for most of your regular activities, but these have limits. Theres no forests, no open meadows, no animals, no rivers, no weather (except warm and hot), no bar lunches by the lakes, very few museums and very few public attractions or quality festivals/activities to entertain you. There's next to no nature or colour to speak of, and any that is here, is man made and soulless.
Most of the areas within a couple hours flight look the same, (dust and rubble and white washed run down villas in the middle of a patch of sand) so you can forget about those weekend cultural trips to interesting places such as AMS, CDG, DUB as a 1 hour trip here will get you to somewhere with pretty much the same blandness and culture, but with even less to do than AUH. (DXB excepted). 4 hours flight may get you somewhere with a bit of variety and difference.
The appeal of the cash wears off very quickly when you realise you only get 8 days off per month. I worked out that i earn about the same per hour worked as i did in the UK, the only difference being here I work far more hours, hence earn more and pay no tax. However the cost of living is higher here and you will have less free time to see your family.
There is one or two good things - Its safe and you will meet like minded people and do lots of house socialising. You will like the big car you have for next to nothing and the massive villa you will rent, and the ability to save money, the house maids cleaning up after you. But if you enjoy life outdoors, variety, time with your family, close friends and most importantly choice, this is not the place to come to. The things to do here are the things you do once or twice then thats it. Theres not really enough going on that is so interesting that you can do it over and over. Theres no 'hyde park' for example, although Dubai has creek park which is fantastic.
The reason we stay here is for the access to the Southern Hemisphere and Asia. With the ID tickets we have been to loads of places, which from Europe are not quite as convenient to get to with kids in tow. So we put up with it for that but will be going back to Europe before the kids are too old to have missed out on what I think is a better life in Europe.
If the money was the same back home and you still had a job, would you give it up to come here? Take the cash from the equation and you will know what your answer is. For me I had no job back home and a job here is better than no job there. Be very careful to come here if your life back home is fine.
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Thanks, sounds like it could be good for the experience for 2 or 3 years. It was the safety aspect that concerned me a bit but after speaking to others I don't think this is much to worry about.
I dont have any alternative job so if it becomes a definate offer I wll take it.
Regards
I dont have any alternative job so if it becomes a definate offer I wll take it.
Regards
By crikey avtur007 that was an eyeful reply. Took me minutes to realize you were not just a whinging Pom. The positives were at the end.
As you said, it's up to the individual to make it home.
Yes everything is different. But it can be worked around to make it home.
Being sponsored by EK, l have a nice home in a nice neighborhood, my wife works a nice job and my kids go to a nice school.
But as avtur700 said, you must get out!
It's easy in our job, but when opportunity arises, get out for a reality/cultural check. Because what you experience here is all a facade!
halas
As you said, it's up to the individual to make it home.
Yes everything is different. But it can be worked around to make it home.
Being sponsored by EK, l have a nice home in a nice neighborhood, my wife works a nice job and my kids go to a nice school.
But as avtur700 said, you must get out!
It's easy in our job, but when opportunity arises, get out for a reality/cultural check. Because what you experience here is all a facade!
halas
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It has all been said in various ways here.
However, despite some negatives, living here in UAE means saving a lot more money than WE ever could have in Europe. I was fed up with the subsistence existence in UK, where ther was little hope of providing for a decent retirement.
Here that is all different. You can have cheap holidays in nice places without spending all your years savings. Unlike UK.
You will probably feel safer here than in UK. We do.
And as for recreation possibilities, it is not the vacant desert that some see.
We came from the UK and (almost) love it here. You may too!
However, despite some negatives, living here in UAE means saving a lot more money than WE ever could have in Europe. I was fed up with the subsistence existence in UK, where ther was little hope of providing for a decent retirement.
Here that is all different. You can have cheap holidays in nice places without spending all your years savings. Unlike UK.
You will probably feel safer here than in UK. We do.
And as for recreation possibilities, it is not the vacant desert that some see.
We came from the UK and (almost) love it here. You may too!
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UAE is NOT TAX FREE
There is no income tax, thats true, but the taxation is hidden, in licences, salik, visa fees, and many other charges.
The utility costs could all be considered tax on expats, as locals pay ZERO.
Just widening the views as far as tax free is concerned.
Lastly the free cancer treatment for expats has been cancelled....
Glf
The utility costs could all be considered tax on expats, as locals pay ZERO.
Just widening the views as far as tax free is concerned.
Lastly the free cancer treatment for expats has been cancelled....
Glf
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007 gives an excellent sense for what it's like to LIVE here. I would say that if your not saving most of the money you make here, the sacrifice in lifestyle is not worth it. If you do save most, then you won't be enjoying yourself. It's a catch 22. You may not understand it until you arrive but the endless "out for dinners" dries out. You really start to yearn for grass and open spaces where the "dogs can run" so to speak.
Don't forget if you have a 2-3 year run, you will leave an FO. If you have a 4-6 year run, a 320 CA. Longer... Then ignoring the differences between the companies would be foolish as one has much higher long term benefits.
Don't forget if you have a 2-3 year run, you will leave an FO. If you have a 4-6 year run, a 320 CA. Longer... Then ignoring the differences between the companies would be foolish as one has much higher long term benefits.
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avtur007
says it basically all. That's the way it is here. Now sitting in the airconditioned room while it is 46C and dusty outside I really miss the green fields and forests and even the rain. Sometimes I think it is a crime what I have done to my kids which have to grow up here. Driving is all you do here, drive, drive, drive, from the compound to work, to school, to sports activities, after school activities etc, etc. And under constant fear that some idiot in a landcruiser will kill you. And soon the Ramadan will start, thanks god I am on holiday this time.
As for your choice of EY, if you join as an FO you better wait to get ajob at Emirates, unless you are out of a job and need to feed your family. Good luck.
As for your choice of EY, if you join as an FO you better wait to get ajob at Emirates, unless you are out of a job and need to feed your family. Good luck.
