World is changing will QR change ?
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Back in my "union" days I learned something I'd like to share with you, gentlemen:
One can only judge the success (or the lack of) of a manager/managerial team if one knows the tasks/goals given to them by their superiors (be that royal family, owner or shareholders).
On the other hand, yes, the huge achievement of QR under its CEO is a known fact, but who's to say what it could have achieved under somebody else with a different managerial methods. May be less, or, may be, much, much more.
Just food for thought...
Cheers!
One can only judge the success (or the lack of) of a manager/managerial team if one knows the tasks/goals given to them by their superiors (be that royal family, owner or shareholders).
On the other hand, yes, the huge achievement of QR under its CEO is a known fact, but who's to say what it could have achieved under somebody else with a different managerial methods. May be less, or, may be, much, much more.
Just food for thought...
Cheers!
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Thank you Homo Ludens! 
Nicely put!
Luke............re your edit:
Really?
You are clearly demonstrating your prejudices here. Maybe you need to try to look at things OBJECTIVELY rather than the SUBJECTIVE nonsense you're spouting!
Where did I say I 'liked all this breakneck growth'?
I didn't Luke. It's as simple as that.
So your retraction of that statement might be in order, in the interests of a BALANCED approach to this thread, which seems to be on the verge of total derailment by the idiotic, childish, emotive and subjective nonsense that you posted.
Tell me, since you seem to know so much about airline management, WHY, in an OBJECTIVE way Akbar is 'a very bad and dangerous manager of airlines.' What metrics are you using for your criteria of 'bad' and 'dangerous'. What formal management qualifications do you have to make that wild statement?
Also tell me in an OBJECTIVE way why 'the day will come when he has blood on his hands.'
Waiting for your reasoned, objectively-based response.
Nicely put!
Luke............re your edit:
This industry isn't like all others chainsaw, all this breakneck growth you like so much is a BAD thing unless it's managed correctly to maintain safety standards. P1ssing off your pilots so much that half of them leave every couple years and all the experience is constantly draining out of the airline, that cannot be ignored or apologized for. I don't care two coppers about skytrax 5 star ratings, the man is a very bad and dangerous manager of airlines and the day will come when he has blood on his hands.
You are clearly demonstrating your prejudices here. Maybe you need to try to look at things OBJECTIVELY rather than the SUBJECTIVE nonsense you're spouting!
Where did I say I 'liked all this breakneck growth'?
I didn't Luke. It's as simple as that.
So your retraction of that statement might be in order, in the interests of a BALANCED approach to this thread, which seems to be on the verge of total derailment by the idiotic, childish, emotive and subjective nonsense that you posted.
Tell me, since you seem to know so much about airline management, WHY, in an OBJECTIVE way Akbar is 'a very bad and dangerous manager of airlines.' What metrics are you using for your criteria of 'bad' and 'dangerous'. What formal management qualifications do you have to make that wild statement?
Also tell me in an OBJECTIVE way why 'the day will come when he has blood on his hands.'
Waiting for your reasoned, objectively-based response.
Last edited by chainsaw; 16th Apr 2011 at 10:41.
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Kijangnim:Sure he has a big picture..
When asked by the journalist about is his goal/ambition..;
The Answer given by AAB,( i was expecting everything but this one..):"to have one a/c more than EK"
exactly like a child!
It shows as well the unhealthy Gulf mentality:the bigger the best!
In the mean time i Just wonder if this was an emotional or rational answer......
When asked by the journalist about is his goal/ambition..;
The Answer given by AAB,( i was expecting everything but this one..):"to have one a/c more than EK"
exactly like a child!It shows as well the unhealthy Gulf mentality:the bigger the best!
In the mean time i Just wonder if this was an emotional or rational answer......
Last edited by loc22550; 16th Apr 2011 at 12:06.
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Yeah sorry about the edit chainsaw, it landed a couple mins after your post, I didn't think it changed my basic argument that much, for you to get mad with me like that 
1) there's no need to get precious about emotive vs balanced arguments and thread derailment, the thread started off with a silly title and a silly concept ya know
2) So lets be "objective" about AAB's management performance. *Lets start like all good financial analysts, by running a judgmental eye over the annual accounts, shareholder reports etc to determine some basic stuff like profitability and return on capital invested ... oh wait we can't *There's no point demanding "objective" debate about AAB's managerial performance because neither you or me or anyone else knows whether QR is wildly profitable or a complete financial disaster.
3) Talking it up about "objectivity" when you have absolutely zero financial data to quantify why and where all this growth is happening or whether it's profitable or not and treating that as the sole "objective" measure of AAB's performance - and then congratulating his management abilities on that basis - just makes you look foolish. Enron and Bernard Madoff had some pretty good growth figures too I believe?
Also on that basis there's not much point getting sarcastic about my airline management qualifications either, it might be more relevant to ask where HIS qualifications are perhaps.
4) The safety issue is not emotional claptrap, it is absolutely entwined with any verdict on performance, especially in an airline like QR where the CEO micromanages and interferes with and routinely overrules decisions from his subordinates. Safety HAS to be entrusted to the hands of qualified professionals and they HAVE to be allowed to do their job without politics and interference and fear for their jobs if they stand up over issues. Can you " objectively" say that's happening?
What else with regard to safety. *The fatigue due to excessively harsh rostering is real and it's a huge issue affecting every pilot in the place. *The effect of fatigue on performance IS objectively measurable and the subject of a large volume of research, none of which appears to reached the attention of the people in charge of QR rostering practices.*
What else ... The 5 different chief pilot training appointments in last 4 years is real. *The incredibly high rate of resignations / terminations of good, experienced pilots is real. *The corruption and nepotism that allows sub standard pilots to keep their jobs despite disastrous performances in the simulator is real (and personally observed by me). The appallingly bad CRM environment between cockpit and cabin crew is real and indeed it's positively encouraged by AAB with things like the segregated CRM courses. All these things and plenty more should be huge red flags to anyone with a basic knowledge of historical causes of accidents, who was to study the risk profile of QR today.
The fact that AAB must surely be aware of all this and yet he chooses not to rectify these problems, indeed they all got worse during my time there, is plenty reason enough for me to call him a bad and dangerous person to be let loose in charge of an airline. *You may call it emotional and subjective, I say I'm calling things as I see them, no amount of discussion about objectivity or the airline's amazing growth record or how it has more skytrax stars than EK, will change my point of view on that one.
1) there's no need to get precious about emotive vs balanced arguments and thread derailment, the thread started off with a silly title and a silly concept ya know
2) So lets be "objective" about AAB's management performance. *Lets start like all good financial analysts, by running a judgmental eye over the annual accounts, shareholder reports etc to determine some basic stuff like profitability and return on capital invested ... oh wait we can't
*There's no point demanding "objective" debate about AAB's managerial performance because neither you or me or anyone else knows whether QR is wildly profitable or a complete financial disaster.3) Talking it up about "objectivity" when you have absolutely zero financial data to quantify why and where all this growth is happening or whether it's profitable or not and treating that as the sole "objective" measure of AAB's performance - and then congratulating his management abilities on that basis - just makes you look foolish. Enron and Bernard Madoff had some pretty good growth figures too I believe?
Also on that basis there's not much point getting sarcastic about my airline management qualifications either, it might be more relevant to ask where HIS qualifications are perhaps.
4) The safety issue is not emotional claptrap, it is absolutely entwined with any verdict on performance, especially in an airline like QR where the CEO micromanages and interferes with and routinely overrules decisions from his subordinates. Safety HAS to be entrusted to the hands of qualified professionals and they HAVE to be allowed to do their job without politics and interference and fear for their jobs if they stand up over issues. Can you " objectively" say that's happening?
What else with regard to safety. *The fatigue due to excessively harsh rostering is real and it's a huge issue affecting every pilot in the place. *The effect of fatigue on performance IS objectively measurable and the subject of a large volume of research, none of which appears to reached the attention of the people in charge of QR rostering practices.*
What else ... The 5 different chief pilot training appointments in last 4 years is real. *The incredibly high rate of resignations / terminations of good, experienced pilots is real. *The corruption and nepotism that allows sub standard pilots to keep their jobs despite disastrous performances in the simulator is real (and personally observed by me). The appallingly bad CRM environment between cockpit and cabin crew is real and indeed it's positively encouraged by AAB with things like the segregated CRM courses. All these things and plenty more should be huge red flags to anyone with a basic knowledge of historical causes of accidents, who was to study the risk profile of QR today.
The fact that AAB must surely be aware of all this and yet he chooses not to rectify these problems, indeed they all got worse during my time there, is plenty reason enough for me to call him a bad and dangerous person to be let loose in charge of an airline. *You may call it emotional and subjective, I say I'm calling things as I see them, no amount of discussion about objectivity or the airline's amazing growth record or how it has more skytrax stars than EK, will change my point of view on that one.
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Well said gutter ... JAA / FAA / CASA are you reading this?
The sad thing amongst all this is that QR "could" have been the best job on earth.
Imagine if the al-thanis had gone to a real pro like Herb Kelleher or Richard Branson and said "we want you to create an airline for us, you will have unlimited funds, pay no tax, get heavily subsidized fuel, no landing fees, no interest on loans, your cabin crew and ground staff will be on salaries a tiny fraction of your first world competitors. We want it to be a profitable and innovative company with a good reputation, that spreads the good name of Qatar all round the world" What do you think the place would have been like ...
All the aggressive nonsense and control freak stuff is just so ... unnecessary, if he would just let the good people he's got, do their jobs without fear and constantly driving them away
/sigh
The sad thing amongst all this is that QR "could" have been the best job on earth.
Imagine if the al-thanis had gone to a real pro like Herb Kelleher or Richard Branson and said "we want you to create an airline for us, you will have unlimited funds, pay no tax, get heavily subsidized fuel, no landing fees, no interest on loans, your cabin crew and ground staff will be on salaries a tiny fraction of your first world competitors. We want it to be a profitable and innovative company with a good reputation, that spreads the good name of Qatar all round the world" What do you think the place would have been like ...
All the aggressive nonsense and control freak stuff is just so ... unnecessary, if he would just let the good people he's got, do their jobs without fear and constantly driving them away
/sigh
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Gutter..who is gone be suprised by that (safety target)???
Have you seen our roster pattern sometime..Especially on 320, when you treat people like robots not human..what do they expect..an improve of the trend or what??!!?!?Lets be serious...!
Sometime You come back at noon minimum rest and than another long turn around at night...!!Sure you can show your roster to any other airline ,they won't believe what they see!Sometime i feel like i'm not flying with crew anymore but Zombie...
And i'm not even talking about any emergency..should any emergency occurs,just wondering whats gone be the issue with such a level of fatigue amongst cockpit and cabin crew.
Maybe people sitting comfortably in office and at home every night.. should really do something..especially that they known about the problem!
Have you seen our roster pattern sometime..Especially on 320, when you treat people like robots not human..what do they expect..an improve of the trend or what??!!?!?Lets be serious...!
Sometime You come back at noon minimum rest and than another long turn around at night...!!Sure you can show your roster to any other airline ,they won't believe what they see!Sometime i feel like i'm not flying with crew anymore but Zombie...
And i'm not even talking about any emergency..should any emergency occurs,just wondering whats gone be the issue with such a level of fatigue amongst cockpit and cabin crew.
Maybe people sitting comfortably in office and at home every night.. should really do something..especially that they known about the problem!
Last edited by loc22550; 17th Apr 2011 at 08:07.
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Luke,
Yep! Imagine IF the al-Thanis DID become really focussed on things other than themselves for once, eg., QR, and mandated (hyothetically of course) that the CEO (Akbar):
...create a world-class airline for Qatar, which worked under a defined Business Plan, within a pre-defined and documented budget, paid the State a return (=tax), paid its way like everyone else is expected to at Doha in the real (=normal) world terms WRT to world benchmark JET A1 prices and parity with all other players WRT to airport facility charges, paid parity interest rates on finance funds (err....that could be a bit tricky though, as charging interest in Islamic society is apparently haram), paid competitive aircrew salaries, conformed with international standards, and complied with international recommended practices) and after all of that, turned a profit for us (QATAR)!
BIG BIG ask to meet all of that wish list, but IF THEY (the al-Thanis) actually DID that and stuck to the plan then QR would be then be a totally awesome place to work at if it met all those objectives.
The pesent CEO though, as you rightly allude to Luke, probably isn't able to accommodate all of those contemporary management OBJECTIVES into his current portfolie of knowledge/skills/experience OR understanding of management 101.
loc22550...
You continue to surprise me by your persistent parroting-on about QR T&Cs.
Please read, then RE-READ my previous post which said:
If you haven't got the balls to do anything about it loc22550, then grow some, face realities, and...
START DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS...
...BUT for GOODNESS SAKE WILL YOU PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM HERE ON PPRUNE!
Yep! Imagine IF the al-Thanis DID become really focussed on things other than themselves for once, eg., QR, and mandated (hyothetically of course) that the CEO (Akbar):
...create a world-class airline for Qatar, which worked under a defined Business Plan, within a pre-defined and documented budget, paid the State a return (=tax), paid its way like everyone else is expected to at Doha in the real (=normal) world terms WRT to world benchmark JET A1 prices and parity with all other players WRT to airport facility charges, paid parity interest rates on finance funds (err....that could be a bit tricky though, as charging interest in Islamic society is apparently haram), paid competitive aircrew salaries, conformed with international standards, and complied with international recommended practices) and after all of that, turned a profit for us (QATAR)!
BIG BIG ask to meet all of that wish list, but IF THEY (the al-Thanis) actually DID that and stuck to the plan then QR would be then be a totally awesome place to work at if it met all those objectives.
The pesent CEO though, as you rightly allude to Luke, probably isn't able to accommodate all of those contemporary management OBJECTIVES into his current portfolie of knowledge/skills/experience OR understanding of management 101.
loc22550...
You continue to surprise me by your persistent parroting-on about QR T&Cs.
Please read, then RE-READ my previous post which said:
For anyone who's not a GCC passport holder, the answer's pretty simple really for life in the Gulf as an expatriate, and that's (as it was, and ever more shall be) when the bucket of **** gets heavier than the bucket of money it's time to leave.
START DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS...
...BUT for GOODNESS SAKE WILL YOU PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM HERE ON PPRUNE!
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Loc, you really are pathetic.
Had your pprune complaints ever changed anything on your daily life
in Qatar Airways and in Qatar?
If the answer is yes then keep on doing so, if no then be sure that those facts and treatments will never change in Qatar unless an union or pilot association
are created which I really doubt about.
So "try to grow those If you haven't got the balls to do anything about it "
and go for greener pastures but please stop moaning and wailing night and day
about those T Cs, it will not help nor change anything except easing a little bit your huge frustration and your boundless resentment.
Had your pprune complaints ever changed anything on your daily life
in Qatar Airways and in Qatar?
If the answer is yes then keep on doing so, if no then be sure that those facts and treatments will never change in Qatar unless an union or pilot association
are created which I really doubt about.
So "try to grow those If you haven't got the balls to do anything about it "
and go for greener pastures but please stop moaning and wailing night and day
about those T Cs, it will not help nor change anything except easing a little bit your huge frustration and your boundless resentment.
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He [loc22550] might be pathetic and frustrated but there's always a lot of true in his posts!
The inference from your post (no 2 in your PPRuNe career I think??) is that you're possibly mates with him or something, maybe?
Or maybe you're loc22550 posting under a 'new' alias??
Whatever, I reckon you're full of sh1t Brian, because there's clearly no 'might be' about loc225550 being pathetic and frustrated whatsoever.
His/her/its posts clearly demonstrate that he/she/it clearly IS pathetic and frustrated, and that he/she/it is obviously a BIGGER bullsh1t artist than you are, if you and loc22550 aren't one and the same!
Some advice for the 'two' of you.........give up while you're behind.
Regards,
chainsaw.
Last edited by chainsaw; 19th Apr 2011 at 12:04.
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Chainsaw,seems that that you really enjoy coming here again and again,trying to hijack the thread,insulting people,despite the fact that you have nothing to do with Q.R anymore!
So,if your level of education permits..,at least try to improve the content of your language.
So,if your level of education permits..,at least try to improve the content of your language.
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And yet another QA thread sinks in to depravity, what a surprise, yes everybody has a view point, and yes some get on our nerves with there endless (worse than some TV channels) repeats, but this is meant to be an information and rumor network, not a slag everybody and thing off network. I respect your views but the petty bickering day in and day out detracts from what could have been a relevant discussion topic.
And quite frankly the way all QA threads seem to end up, is it no wonder this part of the world is the way it is.
Peace out
And quite frankly the way all QA threads seem to end up, is it no wonder this part of the world is the way it is.
Peace out
