Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

wataniya, going belly up.

Wikiposts
Search
Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

wataniya, going belly up.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 28th Nov 2010, 16:10
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
wataniya, going belly up.

Rumor has it that the company is down scaling its fleet of 7 aircraft to 5 sometime soon.

Good luck to fellow aviators in the sinking ship.
MAXMEDLO is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2010, 14:42
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin VOCI , India
Age: 35
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unhappy

Wataniya Cancels 4 Destinations, Plans Staff Cuts - Bloomberg


Wataniya Airways, the Kuwaiti carrier that started operations in January 2009, said it will cancel flights to four cities and plans staff cuts due to market saturation.

“Large capacity is flooding the Kuwaiti market from state- subsidized carriers and driving prices down,” Jassim al-Qames, Wataniya’s public relations, told Bloomberg by telephone today without elaborating.

Wataniya will stop flying to Damascus, Amman, Manama, and the Saudi city of Jeddah from Dec. 5 and reduce services to Dubai, al-Qames said. The airline, which currently operates seven Airbus A320s, will operate four aircraft with its new schedule.

“We’re still looking at options for the three. Several options are on the table,” he said, in reference to the three extra leased aircraft. “We’re rethinking moving some of our operations elsewhere.” The airline is also developing a plan to reduce staff, al-Qames said.

Wataniya is owned by Kuwait National Airlines Co. K.S.C., which was created in 2005 and listed on the Kuwait Stock Exchange in December 2008. Wataniya currently also flies to Beirut, Sharm El-Sheikh, Cairo, Vienna and Istanbul.

To contact the reporter on this story: Fiona MacDonald in Kuwait at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Shaji Mathew at [email protected]
cyrilroy21 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2010, 15:00
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: begenhill
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A-330

high
A-330 is comming soon ,2 A330 on the way just hang on.
glock320 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2010, 15:16
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Too far from the equator
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Too many freeloaders / free tickets I expect , no discipline .
kotakota is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2010, 06:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sad story altogether. scaling from 7 a/c to 4a/c, cutting their route network by half, that's all fine....but what is their next move. This airline has showed us from day one that they lack strategy and vision. They wanted to run a premium airline with extra service in a catchment population area of 1.2 million people, ...and wait for it...here is nail in the coffin.....with low cost fares! How smart is that! Failed from the start when you have no access to volume.

The worst thing was invest into this airline, which hasn't made a single dime since day one. Great crew, but very mad management.

And now talking about a330s, had they done this from the start...they probably would have made it...but now...oh boy...bigger hole to dig.
BOB-KW is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2010, 09:44
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The End Is Near
MAXMEDLO is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:48
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The writing is clearly on the wall, get out now and get another job!!!
puff m'call is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2010, 02:56
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: begenhill
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
KW

no way guys ,we in the UAE hear you are the next EY or EK ,is it the booze or the timming ,keep up the spirit you may recover in due time.
glock320 is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2010, 03:30
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kuwait
Age: 76
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BOB-KW is correct: there are too many seats chasing too few b**s in Kuwait: 3 local carriers for a population of just over 1 million locals and western expats plus a couple of million arab and eastern expats. Jazeera flirted with bankruptcy and had to be re-capitalised somewhat urgently: Kuwait Airways losing money on a daily basis with almost $100 million owed to suppliers, and needing facilities from its bankers merely to pay salaries: and now Wataniya cutting back. It should be interesting to see how things shape up over the coming couple of years if they go ahead and privatise KU, as has been promised. I think we will see the emergence of one long-haul full-service carrier plus one regional low-cost operator. That's all the market will take.
notrocketscience is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 08:25
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: onboard an A6- enroute to India
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am looking for an info on an long lost good friend of mine and after a lot of searching I ve found out that he is in wataniya. If any wataniya pilot around can help me reach him it would be highly thanked for.
Bonne Landings.
IndAir967 is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 16:22
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm flying for Jazeera but I have friends over in wataniya, whats the guy's name? PM me if you dont want to ask in public.
MAXMEDLO is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 17:42
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: onboard an A6- enroute to India
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maxmedlo Kindly check ur pm. Thanks a lot.
IndAir967 is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2010, 11:12
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beside the sticker
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Also seems like they will leave their VIP terminal very soon,...... and moving to the main terminal where all the rest of the airlines operate..... not good news eather.....

Happy 2011 to all!! and hoping wataniya track change 180 degrees.... good people working there.
Do-27 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2011, 00:38
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: sand jar
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
shutting down soon

My source told me that Wataniya is shutting down within the next few months, possibly sooner. Someone in HR mentioned it her, so she is giving her notice now in hopes of getting at least some pay out of the company before there is nothing left. Many FA's already seeking other employment and have been told to leave as quickly as they can. If they just seize operations, nobody is going to get anything.

Wataniya is in way over it's head with it's debt load, and still not making any money. Was told the flight loads have been low for quite some time, and not improving.

I hope HR staffers are wrong for the poor gals/guys left standing at the door.
A340UAE is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2011, 06:16
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: EU
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wataniya Not Shutting Down

My source told me that they are in a mess but they are not shutting down. There was a rumour that they would move to the main terminal, but as the parent company owns the VIP terminal they are actually not moving.

In the last meeting with the CEO they were told that there is no plan for the future, they are not moving terminals and they are not reducing the fleet further.

The CEO blamed everyone and everything but his own choices and strategies. Clearly he is trying to stay on the gravy train.

My friend told me that Wataniya is not doing well on the Vienna flights, but they are about 80% full on the other routes.

He believes that if they do not have an agreement for cooperation with Kuwait airways by this summer the board will have to make drastic changes.

Wataniya has no debt. They were funded with their own Capital and they are draining that money very quickly.

Pilots, cabin crew and ground staff were let go and they have all been paid the 3 months notice and the EOSB as per the Kuwait Law. It is true that the company tried to pay as little as possible, however in the end they did what was required.

The next big meeting is in March and the rumours say that there will be big changes. No one is leaving Wataniya in a big rush though as they fly about 50 hours per month, no night flying and only one night stop in Vienna.

Kuwait airways is also looking for pilots and aircraft so who knows it might be a small loss if Wataniya goes under. Very insignificant player in the market with four aircraft.

I think it is big boys playing with big toys and want the Kudos of an airline
ek2ez is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2011, 07:42
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beside the sticker
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Snoop

Agreement with Kuwait airways....?...... kind of.... thats for sure what they were looking for before even to start operations.... but i would call it instead.... trying to absorve KAC.

And what a coincidence!!!!.... the big meeting in March...heheheheheheh. I wonder why..... maybe because is the begining of spring??...

The real big problem here is the human work force... is not nice to work under this pressure... without knowing what is gonna be next..... The money is not a problem, it never was and it will not be until 60 years ahead..... And about the CEO( or should i called him FEO) bleaming everyone else for whats happening.....

Anything can happen in the next months in Q8.... hope all goes right for everyone.

Happy landings!
Do-27 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2011, 06:34
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stairways to heaven
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
actually shareholders equity is not debt although it appears as a liability on the balance sheet but is just what it is - shareholders equity, which is more expensive than debt and that's why you normally want to gear it to increase the IRR
jackx123 is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2011, 10:46
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kuwait
Age: 76
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In the case of Wataniya, it is a publicly-quoted company, and its capital is the funds invested by shareholders. If it chews through its capital too fast, the value of the company will reach a level where, by law, it is required to recapitalise, to bring it within the limits set by the regulators here in Kuwait. If it cannot do this, it has to cease trading. Jazeera got into this situation, and had to recapitalise quickly: whether its shareholders would do the same for Wataniya is another matter.

If a company gets to the stage where its liabilities exceed its assets, it is insolvent, and has to cease trading. In this case, the owners (shareholders) lose their investment. Although in a sense, shareholders funds are debt, there is very little the shareholders can do if the company does go belly-up, unless they try suing the management of the company, but in this case, that won't get them their money back. How far Wataniya is along this path, I don't know.
notrocketscience is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2011, 08:56
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kuwait
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
United they shall stand - divided (as they are) they shall fall

The problem with the airline is its people. It is always the people anywhere who either make it or break it. WA lacks good experience and team work. Each department works individually. HR has nothing to do with what inflight departments problems are, inflight does not want to even bother about the rest, and finance would only knock them when their own hands can pass through the holes in their pockets. They feel everyone is a cat like them! a cat drinks milk and shuts her eyes thinking no one in the world saw her.

You can only fool people who are on their first airline job (like many people in WA are, except the CEO and head of CC) you cannot be proudly receiving the 7th aircraft in september and kicking almost half the airline out of their jobs in november the same year saying business is slack, that isn't what is called planning. And something that airline lacks major is people taking accountability of their mistakes.

Manpower as someone said, it is true they have the worst of it. The CEO hates asia, in his recent meeting with the crew he turned around and said " those sectors are not high yield sectors, people will not pay a high price for a product like ours, we are too premium for those sectors", someone needs to plan a trip for the CEO to visit India/Bangkok/ Singapore and KL for him to open his eyes and see the spending power these countries have, and the market which is ever growing!

Europe and the Americas remain in forever debts, the situation is so bad almost half the UK/Europe and US is found in the middle east enjoying the best of their times for doing nothing. There are people paying heavy prices for a ****ty service like Kuwait Airways (who has one plane grounded or aborted take off every second day, coz their sledges are so old) .

EK flies 5 flights out of bombay every day all on widebodies, absolutely full, so full that even EK staff many a times dont find a subload seat on them unless allowed to sit on jumpseat, and yet after all these 5 flights people are paying kingfisher air india as well as Jet all the money to travel on narrow bodies to the gulf, so we have no idea where the CEO finds no cash in the asian markets? And mind well, these airlines don't just go full flights with passengers, they make cream from the cargo that is supplied from Asia to gulf. Coz gulf produces nothing, everything is imported.

To add on, the team managing the airline is Mucked up...Good workers are never appreciated, terminations happen on basis of the mood of the management, you have to do nothing wrong to be terminated, your confidence can misunderstood for attitude (and if managers cannot manage staff attitude, then I wonder what are they there to manage!!!) The more worst worker you are, the higher you will go in the airline, just make sure you either lick their ass or show them a local influence, your job's done.

To someone who highlighted the work force issue in this thread, your concern is right for: 1) Most of the HR, is non airline background, none of them have even seen an airline functioning before, they don't even know how a typical airline HR day to day functioning is, how airline staff - inflight in particular should even be handled.

The contracts are a joke, in lay mans language it says " you can do nothing with your life, but we as an airline can **** you inside out" You will be given a english contract for your own satisfaction, and there would be an arabic contract you'd be made to sign, which has clauses that are different than your english contract, and should there be a discrepancy between the two, the arabic contract will be considered instead of the english one :-)


For those who are any willing to help that airline, here's one for you

1) You immediately need to bring good talent ( other departments I don't see any scope of improvement as the only person who seems to be working is head of CC) - Get people not just because they look good, or know someone within, get them in because they are worth it!

2)Get a in-house counselor for inflight, there needs to be someone dealing with cabin crew welfare, for you do not even know how dangerous can frustrated and unhappy staff be to your business.

3) Instead of cost cutting, call in for programs such as cost effectiveness, galley operators would save you much more money than random staff working in the galleys. Train them to be galley operators ( again you need talented staff for this, and I mean talented, not influential)

4) Business comes with PR, how many of your staff have really build the rapport with their passengers (other than the fact that they have been chased by passengers to get laid) The staff needs to know, a lot more they can do on the plane than just veg nonveg.

5) Having 10 things on the tray table don't make you the best airline, have less, but have them right, thats more important. Inflight product needs big review.

6) Stop terminating people on silly reasons such as attitude, performance issues, silly complaints ( there is more cost involved in hiring and firing than retaining) Attitude, performance, skills, crew to crew issues can all be enhanced and handled. the resource utilized in doing this is much more cost effective than terminating the staff. There is so much money you'd save with best practices in HR & inflight department all alone.

7) Get out of your sleeves of being an (arabic oriented airline), coz the rest haven't survived until they have gone international on their standards and way of operating) Look to expand to those sectors that are business cum pleasure, if DOHA could be a connecting hub for long haul, so can KUWAIT be, with a posh terminal like yours.

8) Your crew are the part of that team who either makes it or breaks it, get the best resource for your passengers, but if it doesn't get delivered right, what's the point in having it. You need people who want to do that job, and not those who just had to do some job, so this.

9) Marketing is your weakest area, within kuwait no big mall displays your advertisement. The CEO was heard saying in his meeting " we believe in word of mouth" - That logic works only for gossips and women, it holds no potential for a business model. You need to advertise your business, loud on peoples face, too much of something always becomes habit remember???

As a european if I have to buy a holiday package to dubai from an airline, I'd rather go emirates who'd take me directly to Dubai instead of WA, where I am having to go thru VIE-KWI-DXB, I need to engage a full one day or maybe one and half, for a 2-4 days dubai trip, all that hopping doesn't even make sense! But yes, having a direct flight from LHR-DXB with a 45 minute turn around n Kuwait wouldn't be that big a challenge.


10) Recruit more of Asian staff, for thats where hospitality originates from.

11) You are two years into the business, first class training all alone are not enough to tell your staff how they can do it right!, Introduce up trainings for your staff for them to realize what they can do to go " that extra mile" to retain business. Get their brains working coz at the end of the day its their job which is at stake, also!

12) Your terminal can earn a lot more money if brands wish to advertise, and so can your planes, your're inflight entertainment system can play advertisements and make money for you. Kuwait and the gulf lifestyle over all is so artificial. the air - food - look - attitude, everything is plastic! with so much space wasted in the posh terminal, a SPA (from a renowned brand wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce) - Grooming team can help u find the best deal (provided you have one!) If your idea of making kuwait a connecting hub goes successful, who doesn't mind pampering themselves during a halt.

13) Having more legroom space, and a dedicated terminal, or full meal service is not premiere anymore, what you offer every body else does including the on air GSM system, infact they even offer alcohol which you don't. What would be premiere is the style of delivery, and that for sure isn't existing in WA. Check your own videos on youtube and other sites.

14) You lost so much money in housing, at a stage today where your crew suffer the consequence, of being out from their accommodations, had you thought of a housing officer then, and just one department handling the housing show, so much money could have been saved before it was lost, like today!

15) Staff grooming needs a big check!, for all that attracts the public besides the product is the people they are going to spend majority of their time with during their association with you.

16) Duty free on medium haul can bring you more revenue attention.

17) Regardless you like it or no, Aisan sectors will bring you cash. Most gulf carriers dote on India/Nepal/Singapore/KL/Japan/Hongkong/Bangkok.

More than 6 months of a year bangkok and thailand are filled with arabs doing everything islam doesn't allow!, those sectors can never be regretful! And if europe is your obsession, london alone is your first catchpoint, because neither british airways (on a forever cabin crew strike) nor kuwait airways are the first choice of any flyer)

Over all, there was no need for you to throw all that many staff out of the airline, esp the crew, who will not even find another job all that easily and can't work anywhere else, because a crew profile does not give u and entry to anything else so easily. If you can't afford them, you could have looked for a wetlease agreement with another airline. All this should be a 6 monthly forecast, provided you discuss in your meetings instead of pass the buck game.

You really need a good team to survive not just as an airline(because that even Jazeera and Kuwait airways are) - but we don't even, consider them to be an airline, they are flying public buses...to be a brand, you need staff that can think like a brand...abu al baker may be a psychotic as per his staff, but at the end of the day, an airline that was due to shut down in the 90's is worlds 5 star airline today!

The choice is simple and fully in your hands, either bite each other up, continue playing games with each other (as you have mastered it in the past), stand against each other, work individually, be partial, be racist, be stuck in your heads with your individual opinions and logics - or come together as a team, sit on that round table, be honest and sketch your future holding each others hands and turn that table 360 degree round.

Best practices and people with will and talent, is all you need.
jacobs1899 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2011, 19:35
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kot Addu
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
9) Marketing is your weakest area, within kuwait no big mall displays your advertisement. The CEO was heard saying in his meeting " we believe in word of mouth" - That logic works only for gossips and women,
It works for some like Air Blue in Pakistan, absolutely zero advertising, strictly grew on word of mouth.
newscaster is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.