Air Canada Losing C$$$ ?
I think Canada is on the right track here. F*ck 'em! If they want to come to Canada, it's by Canada's rules, because AC don't want to go there.
Simple enough.
Now look at what those Ozzies and Kiwi's have done. Let Emirates and all their mates in with a vengeance along with all the consequences.
NZ & QF are reporting good results over the most turbulent years for a long time. Now how do they do that with all these A-rab competitors? Buggered if l know?
But the worst is the spending these buggers do down-under!
The Melbourne Cup - Some has-been Horse race
Team New Zealand - Americas Cup folly for the wealthy
Wolgan Valley - Eco Resort in the Blue Mountains, see above.
Collingwood Football Club The team every non-Collingwood supporter loves to hate.
Western Force, Bottom of the Ladder Super 14 Rugby team.
Etihad Stadium, that's still referred to as Telstra Dome
Victorian Racing Club, for the mug punters.
Australian Jockeys Club, see above.
Sydney Symphony Orchestra, WTF?
Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, See above.
West Australian Symphony Orchestra, See above above!
Cricket Umpires.
Rugby Ref's.
Blah, blah, blah,.............
Plus the uncle, who runs the show, has a huge horse stud in the Hunter Valley, turns up for the magic millions (flash horse sale) every year and spends....millions!
And the Arab traffic to the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast (Queensland, not BC!) is really upsetting everyone. Since the Japanese filled their wallets with moths, these robed up individuals are turning up en-mass and booking all the good places and driving up the prices for the locals, and during a recession!
So l say, good on ya Canada! Keep those A-rabs at bay and defend what is good, right and just in the western world, competition!
halas
Simple enough.
Now look at what those Ozzies and Kiwi's have done. Let Emirates and all their mates in with a vengeance along with all the consequences.
NZ & QF are reporting good results over the most turbulent years for a long time. Now how do they do that with all these A-rab competitors? Buggered if l know?
But the worst is the spending these buggers do down-under!
The Melbourne Cup - Some has-been Horse race
Team New Zealand - Americas Cup folly for the wealthy
Wolgan Valley - Eco Resort in the Blue Mountains, see above.
Collingwood Football Club The team every non-Collingwood supporter loves to hate.
Western Force, Bottom of the Ladder Super 14 Rugby team.
Etihad Stadium, that's still referred to as Telstra Dome
Victorian Racing Club, for the mug punters.
Australian Jockeys Club, see above.
Sydney Symphony Orchestra, WTF?
Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, See above.
West Australian Symphony Orchestra, See above above!
Cricket Umpires.
Rugby Ref's.
Blah, blah, blah,.............
Plus the uncle, who runs the show, has a huge horse stud in the Hunter Valley, turns up for the magic millions (flash horse sale) every year and spends....millions!
And the Arab traffic to the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast (Queensland, not BC!) is really upsetting everyone. Since the Japanese filled their wallets with moths, these robed up individuals are turning up en-mass and booking all the good places and driving up the prices for the locals, and during a recession!
So l say, good on ya Canada! Keep those A-rabs at bay and defend what is good, right and just in the western world, competition!
halas
Last edited by halas; 26th Nov 2010 at 19:34.
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Gee, all the cricket, rugby, and soccer (because that's what it's called in Canada) teams in Canada must be crying their eyes out! Well, maybe they would be if those sports were played or watched by anyone in significant numbers. But you knew that, right? Being an expert on Canada and all.
Here's an idea. Let the Emiratis run the UAE and let the Canadians run Canada. And the Aussies and the Kiwis can do whatever the f$ck they want in their own backyards too.
It's not that complicated. The UAE came asking and Canada said no. The Emiratis (with TC in the background) had a hissy fit and showed their true colours.
*yawn* Sounds about usual to me!
As much as I think it's WONDERFUL, all this concern for the financial well-being of a country you're not native of, I'm slightly suspicious of the motives...
But then I've lived in this ****hole for awhile now...
Here's an idea. Let the Emiratis run the UAE and let the Canadians run Canada. And the Aussies and the Kiwis can do whatever the f$ck they want in their own backyards too.
It's not that complicated. The UAE came asking and Canada said no. The Emiratis (with TC in the background) had a hissy fit and showed their true colours.
*yawn* Sounds about usual to me!
As much as I think it's WONDERFUL, all this concern for the financial well-being of a country you're not native of, I'm slightly suspicious of the motives...
But then I've lived in this ****hole for awhile now...
Oblaaspop
BTW, did you see that EK has just signed a codeshare/interline agreement with Jet Blue in the US? Looks like EK will now be able to get into the Canadian market via the back door in order to poach business from AC. Now if the Canadians had just granted a few extra flights per week to EK, I doubt this would have happened, but now AC needs to really worry as I hear that SEA, ORD, and others will be new routes for EK (funny how the Yanks don't see EK as a threat to their economy isn't it?).
Need a repeat? Jet Blue does not ...
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Halas totally agree.....
Canada is still eons away from being competitive and providing service to the masses.
Oh I just hope and pray EK gets some close border US destinations.
Nolimit.... you may think the Ozzies are stupid.... but at least they aren't inept.
What they did by allowing competition was kick QF in the arse and made them smarter and wiser to the realities of running an airline, which by the way is profitable, and AC made how many millions in the last couple of years?
Canada is still eons away from being competitive and providing service to the masses.
Oh I just hope and pray EK gets some close border US destinations.
Nolimit.... you may think the Ozzies are stupid.... but at least they aren't inept.
What they did by allowing competition was kick QF in the arse and made them smarter and wiser to the realities of running an airline, which by the way is profitable, and AC made how many millions in the last couple of years?
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hahaha yes, Canada is a backwaters, repressive regime all right. Not like those progressive, forward-thinkers running things in the Gulf! (circa 1512AD) 
Guess we'll just have to struggle along as best we can, without umpteen flights a day to Saskatoon and "Fly Emirates!" plastered everywhere the eye can see. We'll try to manage.
I never said Ozzies were stupid nor inept. That's just a stereotype at EK. Kidding!! (-ish) But I am bemused by the interest shown in the affairs of a foreign country by those who are neither residents nor citizens. I mean, I'd have to try very hard to even generate enough energy to come up with an opinion of the UAE's bilateral agreement with Australia.
ZZZZZzzzzzzz
Nope, can't do it.
Like sec3 said, Canada is insignificant. So the UAE should just screw off and skim their beeeelions from somewhere else.
Guess we'll just have to struggle along as best we can, without umpteen flights a day to Saskatoon and "Fly Emirates!" plastered everywhere the eye can see. We'll try to manage.I never said Ozzies were stupid nor inept. That's just a stereotype at EK. Kidding!! (-ish) But I am bemused by the interest shown in the affairs of a foreign country by those who are neither residents nor citizens. I mean, I'd have to try very hard to even generate enough energy to come up with an opinion of the UAE's bilateral agreement with Australia.
ZZZZZzzzzzzz
Nope, can't do it.
Like sec3 said, Canada is insignificant. So the UAE should just screw off and skim their beeeelions from somewhere else.
The current year is 1431, not 1512. You give way too much credit for a modern and progressive society like this one.
Most couldn't give a rats arse about your thoughts, but l do brother!
I'm hearing you!
halas
Most couldn't give a rats arse about your thoughts, but l do brother!
I'm hearing you!
halas
Here's an idea. Let the Emiratis run the UAE and let the Canadians run Canada.
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Wiz--who said anything about the base?? Not the Cdn gov't who simply took the high road and moved to Cyprus etc.
But lets be clear--had the situation been reversed there would have been cries of racism. Had another country disallowed a UAE flight with the senior gov't officials there would have been even loader cries and recriminations.
For the others--just a clarification regarding OPEN SKIES. The US does not have open skies, the Europeans don't have open skies, Australia doesn't have open skies. At least as defined by EK and some here where it means anyone can fly in.
Those counties NEGOTIATE open skies agreements with other countries. In other words they are bilateral agreements that allow complete access to the skies between countries. They are NOT open to everyone.
The UAE can boast about open skies because they essentially offer nothing! It is a 2 city country with almost no O&D traffic. It is all transit traffic moving through.
The Australian example is a non starter since Qantas has been only marginally affected by EK. EK hasn't stolen any of its US traffic (cause no one is going via EK to the US from Oz), EK hasn't affected Qantas' European traffic to any large degree because the Aussies offer a direct service (not EK's one stop service).
In contrast EK would be cannibalizing many of the Cdn routes that include one stop with partner airlines. It would kill several routes from marginal cities to Europe who currently have direct service because the 10-15% of pax that would be taken would make the route unprofitable. So you would have Cdn's losing a direct service!
In the end what matters is that in ANY free trade agreement both (all) sides have to be better off. The entire concept of free trade is that efficiencies gained offset the loses. In almost all cases free trade requires a wide range of free trade to make the concept work. ie. each nation produces those products which it had an advantage in and they trade--lowering costs for both countires. They BOTH benefit.
What would Canada get in an Open Skies agreement with the UAE?? They'd lose some direct services, possibly some jobs.......... What would they get??? Possibly cheaper tickets??
The claim that there would be a billion dollars in tourism and jobs is false!!! The tourists come one way or another. EK certainly would not build traffic to the country.
What jobs?? A few dozen at each airport!
I don't care one way or another. But there are arguments on both sides that hold weight. But by throwing a tantrum, refusing the use of the base, not permitting a gov't flight into the UAE etc the Emiratis have shown, again, that they have no idea when it comes to operating on the worlds stage.
But lets be clear--had the situation been reversed there would have been cries of racism. Had another country disallowed a UAE flight with the senior gov't officials there would have been even loader cries and recriminations.
For the others--just a clarification regarding OPEN SKIES. The US does not have open skies, the Europeans don't have open skies, Australia doesn't have open skies. At least as defined by EK and some here where it means anyone can fly in.
Those counties NEGOTIATE open skies agreements with other countries. In other words they are bilateral agreements that allow complete access to the skies between countries. They are NOT open to everyone.
The UAE can boast about open skies because they essentially offer nothing! It is a 2 city country with almost no O&D traffic. It is all transit traffic moving through.
The Australian example is a non starter since Qantas has been only marginally affected by EK. EK hasn't stolen any of its US traffic (cause no one is going via EK to the US from Oz), EK hasn't affected Qantas' European traffic to any large degree because the Aussies offer a direct service (not EK's one stop service).
In contrast EK would be cannibalizing many of the Cdn routes that include one stop with partner airlines. It would kill several routes from marginal cities to Europe who currently have direct service because the 10-15% of pax that would be taken would make the route unprofitable. So you would have Cdn's losing a direct service!
In the end what matters is that in ANY free trade agreement both (all) sides have to be better off. The entire concept of free trade is that efficiencies gained offset the loses. In almost all cases free trade requires a wide range of free trade to make the concept work. ie. each nation produces those products which it had an advantage in and they trade--lowering costs for both countires. They BOTH benefit.
What would Canada get in an Open Skies agreement with the UAE?? They'd lose some direct services, possibly some jobs.......... What would they get??? Possibly cheaper tickets??
The claim that there would be a billion dollars in tourism and jobs is false!!! The tourists come one way or another. EK certainly would not build traffic to the country.
What jobs?? A few dozen at each airport!
I don't care one way or another. But there are arguments on both sides that hold weight. But by throwing a tantrum, refusing the use of the base, not permitting a gov't flight into the UAE etc the Emiratis have shown, again, that they have no idea when it comes to operating on the worlds stage.
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FWIW I want Canada to stay the way it is. That is a nice quiet place, great health care, not too many cars, developed but not over developed, great climate and little if at all any pollution.All we need is another part of the world being over developed and raped under the guise of growth and development.
Why because maybe one day I can retire there!
Why because maybe one day I can retire there!
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Trader, indeed a good post.
However we have to consider that trade does not only consist of air traffic rights, but includes it. Between the UAE and Canada there is a trade deficit of some magnitude which gives them a valuable argument.
40+ years back, when only some dinosaur American and European airlines had the equipment and capacity to run transcontinental flights, it was perfectly ok to swarm the Middle East and Asia with their product. They pretended to offer a service to these backward countries as to have their poor people profit of it. Now that suddenly the powers and such arguments are slightly reversed the West cries foul .....
It just reminds me of when the first Japanese cars arrived in the USA. Everybody laughed their butts off about these tin cans. A few years later they asked for contingencies and barriers as to protect their dinosaur manufacturers. With big success!!! Today Toyota and Honda play the fiddle and the USA had to save their dinosaurs with billions of taxpayers money. It would have been way cheaper for every citizen to let competition rule in the first place, as the outcome is the same every time. The exact same applies to AC. It can only protect itself by improving, not via denial of the globalization.
However we have to consider that trade does not only consist of air traffic rights, but includes it. Between the UAE and Canada there is a trade deficit of some magnitude which gives them a valuable argument.
40+ years back, when only some dinosaur American and European airlines had the equipment and capacity to run transcontinental flights, it was perfectly ok to swarm the Middle East and Asia with their product. They pretended to offer a service to these backward countries as to have their poor people profit of it. Now that suddenly the powers and such arguments are slightly reversed the West cries foul .....
It just reminds me of when the first Japanese cars arrived in the USA. Everybody laughed their butts off about these tin cans. A few years later they asked for contingencies and barriers as to protect their dinosaur manufacturers. With big success!!! Today Toyota and Honda play the fiddle and the USA had to save their dinosaurs with billions of taxpayers money. It would have been way cheaper for every citizen to let competition rule in the first place, as the outcome is the same every time. The exact same applies to AC. It can only protect itself by improving, not via denial of the globalization.
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Your argument about positions being reversed is logically flawed in a few areas.
-If you want to argue about Air Canada, bringing up the history of American and European airlines is barely pertinent.
-The positions aren't "reversed", the Western countries still have the same capabilities they did in the past, the difference is that the ME carriers and others also have the same hardware. Bear in mind that before those evil exploiters came with their DC8's, there was NO service to these places.
-The UAE is free to "protect" their skies in the same way Canada does. And they do, they just use different tactics. Canada refuses to amend a bilateral agreement. The UAE tried to use a military base as leverage to increase it's airlines presence overseas and then had a childish tantrum when it didn't work.
Wiz,
Ironically, you make my point perfectly re: the base. There was an agreement in place, which had the provision to evict Canada on 30 days notice, which was exercised. Guess what? Canada complied and simply moved. So yes, the UAE does have the right to control their territory, and so does Canada. Both have exercised that right. It seems the UAE approach of blackmail plus a hissy fit is more acceptable to you?
As usual, an eloquent rebuttal from Trader. Excellent!
Still curious as to why it seems to be mainly non-Canadians who feel so passionately about AC and EK...weird.
-If you want to argue about Air Canada, bringing up the history of American and European airlines is barely pertinent.
-The positions aren't "reversed", the Western countries still have the same capabilities they did in the past, the difference is that the ME carriers and others also have the same hardware. Bear in mind that before those evil exploiters came with their DC8's, there was NO service to these places.
-The UAE is free to "protect" their skies in the same way Canada does. And they do, they just use different tactics. Canada refuses to amend a bilateral agreement. The UAE tried to use a military base as leverage to increase it's airlines presence overseas and then had a childish tantrum when it didn't work.
Wiz,
Ironically, you make my point perfectly re: the base. There was an agreement in place, which had the provision to evict Canada on 30 days notice, which was exercised. Guess what? Canada complied and simply moved. So yes, the UAE does have the right to control their territory, and so does Canada. Both have exercised that right. It seems the UAE approach of blackmail plus a hissy fit is more acceptable to you?
As usual, an eloquent rebuttal from Trader. Excellent!
Still curious as to why it seems to be mainly non-Canadians who feel so passionately about AC and EK...weird.
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I also agree... Trader hit it on the money. Well said.
Ps: International Herald Tribune today:
"Dubai and its state controlled companies are grappling to service debt that Barclay's Capital estimated in a Sept report to toal about 112 billion - equal too or more than 140% of its GDP. they amassed the loans during years of rapid growth in the property and tourism industries".
Ps: International Herald Tribune today:
"Dubai and its state controlled companies are grappling to service debt that Barclay's Capital estimated in a Sept report to toal about 112 billion - equal too or more than 140% of its GDP. they amassed the loans during years of rapid growth in the property and tourism industries".
Last edited by Desertbannanas; 28th Nov 2010 at 15:40.