QR Flt Ops 'Management' - The Laughter Factory
Join Date: Aug 2010
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K. Verbraeken said:
Many of the management pilots you accused here have worked, and still continue to do so, really hard to get their jobs done. Often they have to fight against strict deadlines, changing company requirements, etc…all as a result of the massive expansion plans you all are benefiting from. (Or did you think joining as DEC B777 is a normal career move? Moving from right to left on A330/B777 is a normal career move?)
Many of the management pilots you accused here have worked, and still continue to do so, really hard to get their jobs done. Often they have to fight against strict deadlines, changing company requirements, etc…all as a result of the massive expansion plans you all are benefiting from. (Or did you think joining as DEC B777 is a normal career move? Moving from right to left on A330/B777 is a normal career move?)
My comment is : Shame on this management if the result of their hard work is blocking hundreds of their senior 320 pilots to hire DEC's and F/O's on the 330 & 777.
How unfair! especially when 320 rated pilots are hired directly on the 330 fleet, while QA is depriving it's own pilots from this –available- CCQ and offer it for new joiners !!!
I don't know you, and I assure you that I don't approve those who attacked you personally, even when based on facts.
Let us focus on the unfair practices we need to fix rather than personal attacks.
How unfair! especially when 320 rated pilots are hired directly on the 330 fleet, while QA is depriving it's own pilots from this –available- CCQ and offer it for new joiners !!!
I don't know you, and I assure you that I don't approve those who attacked you personally, even when based on facts.
Let us focus on the unfair practices we need to fix rather than personal attacks.
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List of low level management
I can assure you that I would instantly stick my hands into a burning fire for most of my fellow management pilots.
Stick you hand for BM,KC,CEO,RN,SD.. and other strange minded people ?
I would not even look back if i see them terminated !
Working for free in office ? what does it tell about person ?
Maybe someone did not have hours for upgrade after 3 years ?
I know who was helping Ex 320 deputy MS to get data about people .
I saw you at CEO meeting seated next to CP A330 and on another meeting with next CP who replaced previous one .
Stay proud of current management and sure your on good way to AAB a.... but keep in mind it's crowded there .
If you have any dignity you would leave the office when you see and know wrong things are going on .
Stick you hand for BM,KC,CEO,RN,SD.. and other strange minded people ?
I would not even look back if i see them terminated !
Working for free in office ? what does it tell about person ?
Maybe someone did not have hours for upgrade after 3 years ?
I know who was helping Ex 320 deputy MS to get data about people .
I saw you at CEO meeting seated next to CP A330 and on another meeting with next CP who replaced previous one .
Stay proud of current management and sure your on good way to AAB a.... but keep in mind it's crowded there .
If you have any dignity you would leave the office when you see and know wrong things are going on .
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Thinking
My answer for you:
I was thinking as you suggested, it did not take me long before I saw the clear solution:
As a manager, I would improve the conditions for the pilots, especially on the 320 fleet so the company and the 320 fleet become attractive to expats.
As a manager, I would improve the conditions for the pilots, especially on the 320 fleet so the company and the 320 fleet become attractive to expats.
Examples of possible imrovement:
1-Raise the basic salary like EY, (I know their flying hourly allowance is lower, but they don’t lose of they go on vacation, also resulting in higher End of Contract Allowance)
2-Pay your pilots for the Duty Time, so they don't get abused spending hours of STBY, and hours on ground the airports or dead heading for free.
3-Keep your word as management, so pilots would TRUST you and join knowing they will benefit from of a PROVIDENT FUND.
4-Improve the treatment of your pilots, starting from 3 days off rule, allow the REAL BIDDING SYSTEM….etc.
5-Show the pilots some career stability by stopping the policy of firing them over an Evian bottle of water.
6-Stop or at least try to reduce the rostering mismanagement either due to corruption or incompetence.
7-Provide the 320 fleet with an extra "Hardship" allowance (was paid till 2003 for the 320 pilots).
8- A better roster with some decent layovers for the instructors will let them catch up in hours and get a break from the 6-7 days blocks, that will attract more instructors to your fleets including 320 and 777 instead of hiring Boeing instructors paying them triple the training allowance due to QA pilots refusing the job.
If management provided the above mentioned points, I trust many pilots will prefer to join QR in any fleet rather than EY,EK or AA.
The reason many of the new joiners put "flying the wide body" as a condition to join the airline is due to what they saw and heard from their fellow 320 pilots.
So this problem was "the monster we created" by freezing the transfer.
Unfortunately the company chose the easy solution and offered the wide body to the new joiners as a temporary fast solution.
So this problem was "the monster we created" by freezing the transfer.
Unfortunately the company chose the easy solution and offered the wide body to the new joiners as a temporary fast solution.
The latest example of QR poor management: due to the current 320 situation, over 100 pilots (some rumours say 200) applied to fly 320 somewhere else most of them to applied to EY, how do you think our management reacted? Did they think of any of the 8 pointes mentioned above?
NO….. they approached Etihad management to strike a deal not to accept each other pilots (similar to the current agreement with Emirates).
NO….. they approached Etihad management to strike a deal not to accept each other pilots (similar to the current agreement with Emirates).
I think the solution is there, but the cheap, fast short sighted solution is always easier because managers know they will not be in position in 2 years time, so they think about Tomorrow, not about 24 months plan !
May be I am wrong, but I think majority of pilots share my opinion.
P.S. I respect your opinion too, but let us see in 1 year time how many 320 pilots will be lost then we will know if the current policies are right or wrong.
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One simple thing that would make a world of difference is the answer to...WHERE WILL I BE IN THE COMPANY AND WHEN?
Career progression guys, its all random and a guess currently in QTR...I have no Idea (as im sure many also dont) what we will be doing in the company as our career progresses (320/330/340/777)
Give us a tangible, transparent system to know what and when to expect it or at least have an idea! Many get discouraged by this one point...
You your self said, why being wide body FO u went to 320 Capt. and then 6 m/o later it became right to left??? And as far being thankful well I am thankful for having a job BUT it isnt for free, I do a job the company wants me to do for an agreed amount, no one is doing any one any favors here
QTR Airways should not whore it self out to hire pilots! Make the conditions AT LEVEL or BETTER than the competition
Career progression guys, its all random and a guess currently in QTR...I have no Idea (as im sure many also dont) what we will be doing in the company as our career progresses (320/330/340/777)
Give us a tangible, transparent system to know what and when to expect it or at least have an idea! Many get discouraged by this one point...
You your self said, why being wide body FO u went to 320 Capt. and then 6 m/o later it became right to left??? And as far being thankful well I am thankful for having a job BUT it isnt for free, I do a job the company wants me to do for an agreed amount, no one is doing any one any favors here
QTR Airways should not whore it self out to hire pilots! Make the conditions AT LEVEL or BETTER than the competition
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K.Verb...
Verbraeken..a nice though slightly naive gesture to post your full name..obviously a bit of truth to the suggestion of brown nosing. Anyway, guess your post.. burning hands etc just puts you further up the said managements rears.
Dont let the banter here get to you, which it obviously did....its called PPRUNE..ie rumour network..suggest if you want to post facts start a website called the PPFN..ie fact network...then post your name etc..bit silly posting the name old boy...just relax and treat yourself to a couple of buckets of Baskin Robbins to fuel that toned face of yours.
Dont let the banter here get to you, which it obviously did....its called PPRUNE..ie rumour network..suggest if you want to post facts start a website called the PPFN..ie fact network...then post your name etc..bit silly posting the name old boy...just relax and treat yourself to a couple of buckets of Baskin Robbins to fuel that toned face of yours.
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Training dep
When CRM was devided on man and women an previous CRM mananger left he has dignity .
Training department is and was always subject to CEO clereance,orders, imputs which has nothing to do with reall world way of working .
A320 roster is very good example how to make your crew sick but responibility lies with fleet manager and we all know how useless is this poor guy just seat in office drink tea and eat nuts telling people "you know Capt we can not do it " or CEO want us to do this and that .
CEO of QR AAB is making QR and Qatar reputation as it is today .
People like what we have in management now and 2 years back are supporting this by securing their office place . We saw good people leaving office very fast after thay say NO to sick guy .
CEO support reporting system and that is the reason why CS/CSD has more PWR then any CAPt in QR .
Now brave KV if you are brave to put your name and talk on PPRUNE please tell in front of us is CEO a great man or an sick persona who is doing and has done a lot of bad and mean things to people ? No diplomatic answers please . Just straight to the point good or bad .
Training department is and was always subject to CEO clereance,orders, imputs which has nothing to do with reall world way of working .
A320 roster is very good example how to make your crew sick but responibility lies with fleet manager and we all know how useless is this poor guy just seat in office drink tea and eat nuts telling people "you know Capt we can not do it " or CEO want us to do this and that .
CEO of QR AAB is making QR and Qatar reputation as it is today .
People like what we have in management now and 2 years back are supporting this by securing their office place . We saw good people leaving office very fast after thay say NO to sick guy .
CEO support reporting system and that is the reason why CS/CSD has more PWR then any CAPt in QR .
Now brave KV if you are brave to put your name and talk on PPRUNE please tell in front of us is CEO a great man or an sick persona who is doing and has done a lot of bad and mean things to people ? No diplomatic answers please . Just straight to the point good or bad .
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Dan cooper:
QR is ready to offer A-330 rating to new joiners who are A-320 rated (and by-passing all the courageous A-320 senior guys here) to avoid "loosing" a precious candidature& pilot who otherwise will rather go straight to EY to fly the ..A-320!
QR is ready to offer A-330 rating to new joiners who are A-320 rated (and by-passing all the courageous A-320 senior guys here) to avoid "loosing" a precious candidature& pilot who otherwise will rather go straight to EY to fly the ..A-320!
Last edited by loc22550; 15th Aug 2010 at 12:20.
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QR higher authority
How QR CEO spend money given by Qatar state :
- Salary for UK experts ,we saw BW and IM how they improved QR
- Salary for security personal which QR have more then some VVIP
- Salary for so called auditors they are Pax which are reporting crew
- Salary for UK privat investigator
- Security cameras at CC accommodation and QR tower and Tech building
and since not that long a go in SIM building .....
- TRTO department which is training and give type ratings to pilots which
will in 25% jumpship one day with nice 777 or 330 type rating
- LV bags & wallets given as gift to HOT cabin crew on promotion flights
- He opened resignation/termination department on 3 floor the only one of
that kind department in the world
- A number of pilots pretending big time managers but if you check their
file you can find funny things there . A lot of money vasted there
If state of Qatar is happy throwing money around it is ok .
- Salary for UK experts ,we saw BW and IM how they improved QR
- Salary for security personal which QR have more then some VVIP
- Salary for so called auditors they are Pax which are reporting crew
- Salary for UK privat investigator
- Security cameras at CC accommodation and QR tower and Tech building
and since not that long a go in SIM building .....
- TRTO department which is training and give type ratings to pilots which
will in 25% jumpship one day with nice 777 or 330 type rating
- LV bags & wallets given as gift to HOT cabin crew on promotion flights
- He opened resignation/termination department on 3 floor the only one of
that kind department in the world
- A number of pilots pretending big time managers but if you check their
file you can find funny things there . A lot of money vasted there
If state of Qatar is happy throwing money around it is ok .
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Jeppesen roster system
United 2009 don't forget famues excellent PM recommended Jeppesen/ AIMS system and the year when annual leave was delayed 5 months .
O Jeppesen system was expencive though . And PM wants to change it again well if he get any % from all this sytem he is intreducing he can get retire early .
BM system max 3 days off made a lot of people leave the airline again $$$.
I remember rostering dep in 2002 -2006 y and i never had that bad roster done without any system then now days superexpencive bidding system done by PM . PM is using situation to keep position . Actually they would get rid of guy long time a go but since he has BM against him self then he run and hide behing AJ who will protect him only to show that BM can not do what he want .
Anyhow both BM and PM are gone soon, victims of their own incompetence.
AJ will manage as he know how to deal with people .
System works : Bad news let someone else tell to pilot good news bring him i will tell him , smile to all . Recipe for success ! Try it !
O Jeppesen system was expencive though . And PM wants to change it again well if he get any % from all this sytem he is intreducing he can get retire early .
BM system max 3 days off made a lot of people leave the airline again $$$.
I remember rostering dep in 2002 -2006 y and i never had that bad roster done without any system then now days superexpencive bidding system done by PM . PM is using situation to keep position . Actually they would get rid of guy long time a go but since he has BM against him self then he run and hide behing AJ who will protect him only to show that BM can not do what he want .
Anyhow both BM and PM are gone soon, victims of their own incompetence.
AJ will manage as he know how to deal with people .
System works : Bad news let someone else tell to pilot good news bring him i will tell him , smile to all . Recipe for success ! Try it !
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Dear Mr K. Verbraeken
the greatest failure of the present menagment is simply the fact that everybody is unhappy in the company.
It is the clearest,most simple prove of the fact that the present system doesn't work.
Qatar Airways should in my opinion spend more money in training and find a way to keep people happier....how??
Just treat people like resources not like animals to target.
Look at the present situation is not strange in your opinion that lots of people jumship from here?
have you ever heard that the same happens in BA or AF?
I didn't....and geuss why!
NOF
the greatest failure of the present menagment is simply the fact that everybody is unhappy in the company.
It is the clearest,most simple prove of the fact that the present system doesn't work.
Qatar Airways should in my opinion spend more money in training and find a way to keep people happier....how??
Just treat people like resources not like animals to target.
Look at the present situation is not strange in your opinion that lots of people jumship from here?
have you ever heard that the same happens in BA or AF?
I didn't....and geuss why!
NOF
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Plane (sic) Speaking Please
For those of us who have only been here for two years or less could we please have some guidance as to who the initials on this thread refer to. Recent posts refer to BM and PM. I have been here for more than a year and cannot relate these initials to anyone that I know.
If these guys are screwing us all then please let us all in on the secret.
Where to now?
QR are at a critical point in their development and if the right decisions are made at this point then the future for the airline looks rosy. If the Company continues to be run on policies based on fear and intimidation imposed by an under qualified and under confident senior management then the longer term future looks bleak.
With the help of virtually unlimited financial resources almost any person with access to aviation and business consultants could have brought Qatar Airways from the mid nineties to the present day. Unfortunately the present day throws up new challenges. The new airport is years behind schedule despite the direct involvement of the QA CEO.
Expansion up until this point has been helped enormously by the word wide recession and retrenchment in many major airlines. Pilots who would not normally choose to work in the especially challenging environment in Qatar have, nevertheless, given it a try in the hope that Qatar Airways might live up to its advertising.
At the present most staff try their best. The system is archaic, based on the Edwardian system of beaurocracy passed on to the Indians by the British and developed to incredible levels such that flexibility, decision making and responsibility for ones actions have been almost completely eliminated.
These are not the qualities that will achieve the best results in the 21st Century. Bottom line is king in todays business world. QR pay is probably average in todays market. I don't hear complaints about pay (at least no more than anywhere else). What really get's people going is quality of life!
So, instead of just whinging how about some suggestions?
1. Ask what staff would appreciate, don't assume.
2. Look for measures that will improve staff quality of life at no cost to the Company. This can improve staff performance by up to four times that achieved by pay incentives and has far higher returns in terms of staff retention.
3. Reward loyalty. Staff that have helped Qatar Airways to arrive where they have today should be recognised. All staff contributing to QR's further success should be rewarded for their loyalty and support.
4. Originality. So far everything that QR do appears to be based on Emirates. This may have something to do with the CEO's previous life. New ideas from QR might be encouraging.
5. Slow Down. Whilst embarrassing it may be appropriate to recognise that QR infrastructure is far behind the plan and slow down expansion until it is possible to cope with expansion in a professional manner.
6. Adjust. If you can get maximum legal hours out of a pilot in three weeks then there is no point in insisting that he cannot then have 6 or 7 consecutive days off if that is what might keep him happy and working for you for the next 15 years.
Enough. There's loads more where this comes from but please let's stop pushing out all the coded abuse and get down to some good ideas!
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Finally somebody with a clear Vision...:
Your Suggestion nr 5 should be the first one to be applied asap before it's too late!
But unfortunatly i don't think they can't slown down, simply because of one problem here: the HUGE EGO!!
The only solution is the completion of the new airport asap! (but when i see new temporary terminals "muschrooming" here and there(oops another waste of $$$$$), i'm afraid it's not for tomorrow as well...)
So lets wait and see....
Your Suggestion nr 5 should be the first one to be applied asap before it's too late!
But unfortunatly i don't think they can't slown down, simply because of one problem here: the HUGE EGO!!
The only solution is the completion of the new airport asap! (but when i see new temporary terminals "muschrooming" here and there(oops another waste of $$$$$), i'm afraid it's not for tomorrow as well...)
So lets wait and see....
Last edited by loc22550; 18th Aug 2010 at 14:46.
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Hello Guys,
I have heard a lot about Pprune but I didn’t realize that it was so intense. All the same complaints and negative comments from the same guys about the same management people.
You make it seem like the worst place to work yet most of the complainers are still with the company. Most of the complainers are on the wide body and I can understand their complaints, however it’s the poor guys on the 320 (line pilots) that are suffering the most. We all know what they are going through, it would be another five pages just to start explaining the unjust job they are doing, with no-one in the office to stand up for them (“not me captain, it’s the CEO”) (…Please send me an e-mail and I assure you he will not do anything about it) (….”the rostering guys are not answering my calls”) He is to busy with his coffee, dates and nuts to worry about their issues. These are the story’s I heard from few 320 guys.
So three years ago it was explained this nightmare would be over and a new life would begin on a normal fleet. While they are going through this nightmare they find pilots with lower hours and narrow body type walking in straight to the 330 and the 777. Hold on, what’s happening? (Sorry guys the company is in need of direct entry pilots)…Oh ok
!
But when you find out that there are guys with the 320 type that were laid off somewhere else and QA hires them to walk into the 330 and 777. Not only this but some of them had LST done for them at QA then CCQ 330, it is not only unfair it is unjust.
And when someone wants to gracefully walk out, QA does not try to resolve any problems or help them they just try to block them from going to neighboring Airline. Is this fair?
And then you get this guy trying to impress the management by putting his hands into the burning fire at the expense of these poor guys. That is really sad. one of the greatest thing about this group is to stand and help each other no matter what is your position.
I have heard a lot about Pprune but I didn’t realize that it was so intense. All the same complaints and negative comments from the same guys about the same management people.
You make it seem like the worst place to work yet most of the complainers are still with the company. Most of the complainers are on the wide body and I can understand their complaints, however it’s the poor guys on the 320 (line pilots) that are suffering the most. We all know what they are going through, it would be another five pages just to start explaining the unjust job they are doing, with no-one in the office to stand up for them (“not me captain, it’s the CEO”) (…Please send me an e-mail and I assure you he will not do anything about it) (….”the rostering guys are not answering my calls”) He is to busy with his coffee, dates and nuts to worry about their issues. These are the story’s I heard from few 320 guys.
So three years ago it was explained this nightmare would be over and a new life would begin on a normal fleet. While they are going through this nightmare they find pilots with lower hours and narrow body type walking in straight to the 330 and the 777. Hold on, what’s happening? (Sorry guys the company is in need of direct entry pilots)…Oh ok
!But when you find out that there are guys with the 320 type that were laid off somewhere else and QA hires them to walk into the 330 and 777. Not only this but some of them had LST done for them at QA then CCQ 330, it is not only unfair it is unjust.
And when someone wants to gracefully walk out, QA does not try to resolve any problems or help them they just try to block them from going to neighboring Airline. Is this fair?
And then you get this guy trying to impress the management by putting his hands into the burning fire at the expense of these poor guys. That is really sad. one of the greatest thing about this group is to stand and help each other no matter what is your position.
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It's not in effect yet. You still can apply. The sooner the better.
Good luck.
@ fuklawski
@ deserthawk9
Good luck.
@ fuklawski
@ deserthawk9
Last edited by flykamel; 20th Aug 2010 at 21:19.
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Management Change
EVPO, CPT, CP Fleets, FTM 320, FTM 330/340 & Head of TRTO will leave their offices soon.
Major changes in Flt Ops, we can only guess at this moment who will replace them even with some unconfirmed nominations.
I hope we don't get a new B.W. & I.M. who hired their unqualified friends directly on the 777 fleet ignoring all the senior QR pilots including those who had a previous Boeing rating.
We just hope the new team will improve the working conditions -especially rosters- to stop the imminent departure of many pilots (most of them on the 320).
Several ME operators increased the salaries lately to attract qualified pilots. Let us see what will QR management do.
Major changes in Flt Ops, we can only guess at this moment who will replace them even with some unconfirmed nominations.
I hope we don't get a new B.W. & I.M. who hired their unqualified friends directly on the 777 fleet ignoring all the senior QR pilots including those who had a previous Boeing rating.
We just hope the new team will improve the working conditions -especially rosters- to stop the imminent departure of many pilots (most of them on the 320).
Several ME operators increased the salaries lately to attract qualified pilots. Let us see what will QR management do.