(EK) Disciplined for carrying fuel?
Great post woodja.
I didn't say anything yesterday but, as a day has gone by with no-one supporting either rumour, I think we can assume both the title rumour of the thread, and the 1200DHS for being late as nothing but rumours?
I didn't say anything yesterday but, as a day has gone by with no-one supporting either rumour, I think we can assume both the title rumour of the thread, and the 1200DHS for being late as nothing but rumours?
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I don't know about us getting fined for being late for a pickup but the drivers do get fined 200 dits out of their miserly salary for being late to pick us up!
Haven't been disciplined for carrying excess fuel, but got a nasty letter about it last winter! Stated I was in top 10 fuel carriers and they would be monitoring my excess fuel in the future!
Pity they hadn't checked my roster to see why I'd carried the excess fuel, 4 snowy europes and a lax!
'A commander shall ensure that he carries enough fuel and oil to complete the flight safely' straight out of the FOM
Haven't been disciplined for carrying excess fuel, but got a nasty letter about it last winter! Stated I was in top 10 fuel carriers and they would be monitoring my excess fuel in the future!
Pity they hadn't checked my roster to see why I'd carried the excess fuel, 4 snowy europes and a lax!
'A commander shall ensure that he carries enough fuel and oil to complete the flight safely' straight out of the FOM
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The extra 1.5 T that you can throw on ,most jets to get to the runway is not oft used in EK - since I have been there at least
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Top Ten......
Kennedy, you are in good company as I too received the rather rude letter suggesting I was in the top ten excess fuel carriers last year. Asking around in my street several of my neighbours also received the same letter - coincidence?! My fuel loading decision making has not changed, nor has the amount I carry. The letter has not subsequently been repeated.
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I think we can assume both the title rumour of the thread, and the 1200DHS for being late as nothing but rumours?
Last edited by pool; 1st Apr 2010 at 10:37.
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The call to the office was for more than just offloading cargo to take the extra fuel..... there is more to the story than that. I know from the crew in question. So before people get their panties in a knot about getting called in and for those of you that always bring stories without first getting the facts correct.... do some homework first... the fuel uplift and cargo offload was only a part of the story 
and is not appropriate to explain on a public forum
and is not appropriate to explain on a public forum
Well please do the same, Pooly.
Again, I'm not saying the 1200dhs thing isn't true, but can you point me at any communication or first-hand experience that says it?
Again, I'm not saying the 1200dhs thing isn't true, but can you point me at any communication or first-hand experience that says it?
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jim
You are right - doesnt help inflight fuel but some folks think that the MTOW is the push back weight - thus by not adding in the long ish taxi fuel some guys will be cutting them selves short at the gate.. that was what I was trying to allude to... I hope that most chaps are sharper than that but having actually not hit the limits on this one yet.. not sure if the load sheet will run if you put ramp fuel and ZFW such that they exceed MTOW and get a load sheet to run... unless I am bit slow too.??
WJA
WJA
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Not giving specifics but dealt with a conversation between the Captain and the VPNC, at the time, and his arguing about the suitability of the aircraft type on the route and overall operation... all on the freq... the warning was not for fuel . Have you any honestly heard of anyone getting a warning for putting two tons more fuel and offloading cargo ? Come on ! They landed in SFO with 6.4 T , had it not been for the uploaded additional fuel it would have been less that 4. So the decision was correct, the execution of the request was not.
If anyone, including VPNC, asks why u are making a decision just answer the question and not get into an argument, bottom line. Fly your plane , stand by your decision, but don't get into fight
Also someone up high, has a hard on for the CAP and is looking to make his life difficult
If anyone, including VPNC, asks why u are making a decision just answer the question and not get into an argument, bottom line. Fly your plane , stand by your decision, but don't get into fight
Also someone up high, has a hard on for the CAP and is looking to make his life difficult
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"They landed in SFO with 6.4 T , had it not been for the uploaded additional fuel it would have been less that 4. So the decision was correct, the execution of the request was not."
Suspicious me... If I had a feeling I would be invited for tea and cookies over extra fuel ... I would make sure I burn it. Li'l bit faster, li'l bit lower, don't accept directs ... but that's just suspicious me.
Suspicious me... If I had a feeling I would be invited for tea and cookies over extra fuel ... I would make sure I burn it. Li'l bit faster, li'l bit lower, don't accept directs ... but that's just suspicious me.
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The 1200 dhms is what EK deduct from your salary if you are marked absent,(per day)
Interesting, they used to give us 900 dhms for working a day off, that must be that level playing field again!!!!!!
Interesting, they used to give us 900 dhms for working a day off, that must be that level playing field again!!!!!!
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Clown !!
Suspicious me... If I had a feeling I would be invited for tea and cookies over extra fuel ... I would make sure I burn it. Li'l bit faster, li'l bit lower, don't accept directs ... but that's just suspicious me.
M5.5 It would appear that you subscribe to the general UAE/Dubai/Emirates philosophy that if it looks good on paper and statistiics it must be awesome. Sad.That is every thing that is wrong with this place. Everyone is so busy making sure that their patch is clean that the underlying issues are never exposed until it is too late.
Not from here,
Well, that makes sense. That's a much different thing than being late for transport. Thats not making it to work.
Well, that makes sense. That's a much different thing than being late for transport. Thats not making it to work.
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Personally I choose to show up at destination with the most fuel possible so I agree with you on that point Gulf News. But I also understand why someone feels it is more defensible, (in this culture) if they end up at the gate with min fuel, and they were fairly reasonable on their decisions during the flight. It would make it pretty difficult even for our lunatic managers to discipline THAT fuel decision. It all boils down to 'covering your ass' at this airline! It is not about safety at this airline, it is about 'the perception' of safety, much like most other things here.
You mentioned it costs 3% to carry extra fuel? That is not even in the ball-park. On a typical........ say DXB-SYD flight, a Triple7 or Airbus burns almost 50% of the extra fuel it carries.! An extra tonne of fuel equates to only having 500kgs extra fuel upon arrival.
Extra fuel does cost a lot of money and it is smart for this company to focus on that issue but if any 'office' moron questions a wise or even 'mildly conservative' fuel decision by a Commander, then they should be kicked out on their ass. Actually, it is probably fair to say that no office moron should EVER question a Commanders fuel decision and that includes TCAS, AAR (definitely) and without any doubt... ED. And these are the 3 dudes in charge of us, so go figure!
There are only a few things... (TRW's, destination WX below mins, tech faults, serious pax issues and in-flight emergencies), that are worse than showing up at your destination and having to transition to planning another mini-leg to a different airport that you have not been reading about, or planning for the last 10 hours. Throw in the fact that it usually occurs at 0600am after a dreadful night.... because it is not pleasant. Thankfully it has only happened to me once, when my destination closed on short notice and our alternate was reasonably close and suitable. In spite of the fact that everything went brilliantly, I have to admit the 'pucker-factor' was fairly high.
IMHO, EK pilots are quite good at determining the proper fuel upload.
You mentioned it costs 3% to carry extra fuel? That is not even in the ball-park. On a typical........ say DXB-SYD flight, a Triple7 or Airbus burns almost 50% of the extra fuel it carries.! An extra tonne of fuel equates to only having 500kgs extra fuel upon arrival.
Extra fuel does cost a lot of money and it is smart for this company to focus on that issue but if any 'office' moron questions a wise or even 'mildly conservative' fuel decision by a Commander, then they should be kicked out on their ass. Actually, it is probably fair to say that no office moron should EVER question a Commanders fuel decision and that includes TCAS, AAR (definitely) and without any doubt... ED. And these are the 3 dudes in charge of us, so go figure!
There are only a few things... (TRW's, destination WX below mins, tech faults, serious pax issues and in-flight emergencies), that are worse than showing up at your destination and having to transition to planning another mini-leg to a different airport that you have not been reading about, or planning for the last 10 hours. Throw in the fact that it usually occurs at 0600am after a dreadful night.... because it is not pleasant. Thankfully it has only happened to me once, when my destination closed on short notice and our alternate was reasonably close and suitable. In spite of the fact that everything went brilliantly, I have to admit the 'pucker-factor' was fairly high.
IMHO, EK pilots are quite good at determining the proper fuel upload.
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MB, I agree with most of your opinions and I also think most EK pilots make good decisions with regards to fuel uplift. My experience has shown the vast majority only take extra fuel when they feel it's required, and thankfully the company is fairly quiet on that subject.
I especially agree with your safety culture comments, the open door policy feedback loop is almost non-existent and EK is certainly a culture of blame. Why did you do that? What were you thinking? Not HOW did this happen and what can we do to prevent this in the future. It's the most reactive company I've every worked for. Proactive is buried in the desert somewhere...
I think Gulf news probably meant 3% an hour of fuel burn, and it's really closer to 4% an hour. Take a 13 hour flight, 4x13 = 52 and there is your half fuel burn for each extra ton carried.
Time to enjoy one of my 8 days off...
I especially agree with your safety culture comments, the open door policy feedback loop is almost non-existent and EK is certainly a culture of blame. Why did you do that? What were you thinking? Not HOW did this happen and what can we do to prevent this in the future. It's the most reactive company I've every worked for. Proactive is buried in the desert somewhere...
I think Gulf news probably meant 3% an hour of fuel burn, and it's really closer to 4% an hour. Take a 13 hour flight, 4x13 = 52 and there is your half fuel burn for each extra ton carried.
Time to enjoy one of my 8 days off...