A word to the wise (ex-EK driver's experience)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Desert
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Word on the street is there is only 265 qualified applicants currently at EK. The airline needs to hire approx 550 pilots in the next year and a half. Where are they going to come from?
Of those 265 you know at least half of them will use there common sense and not come so it will get interesting.
Of those 265 you know at least half of them will use there common sense and not come so it will get interesting.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Centroid
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Management LOOSE MOTION
Your eyes are fogged up with sand buddy
. Not comparing with Cathay or any other quality airline, Emirates captain is taking less than any airline in the region. Etihad, Qatar, Gulf air and Oman. Considering Dewa bills, Etisalaat, ridiculously high school fee and 95 block hours a month. Qatar First Officer makes the same amount as an EK captain with 95 hours flying.This new cap really makes a big difference.
Cathay FO has always taken more take home than EK captain.
Now don't give me the option to leave as there is a surprising number waiting to see what happens in the next two weeks.
I as a matter of fact like Emirates but would definately like to see things improve to an industry standard. There has to be a limit to how much an airline can squeeze.
. Not comparing with Cathay or any other quality airline, Emirates captain is taking less than any airline in the region. Etihad, Qatar, Gulf air and Oman. Considering Dewa bills, Etisalaat, ridiculously high school fee and 95 block hours a month. Qatar First Officer makes the same amount as an EK captain with 95 hours flying.This new cap really makes a big difference.Cathay FO has always taken more take home than EK captain.
Now don't give me the option to leave as there is a surprising number waiting to see what happens in the next two weeks.
I as a matter of fact like Emirates but would definately like to see things improve to an industry standard. There has to be a limit to how much an airline can squeeze.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brooklyns Park
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"there is a surprising number waiting to see what happens in the next two weeks"
Would they be the same "surprising number" who were waiting last year to see what would happen and are still here "waiting to see what happens" before deciding to "wait and see what happens" next year?
EK will continue to shove and bully its pilots around so long as the pilots take it.
The key to making things better at EK is managements absolute determination that the "EMIRATES" brand name stays intact.
If flights get cancelled due to pilot shortages or sickness and the media gets interested in the whys of said cancellations I am sure that pilots would soon find their job lots improve.
Talking about the "wait and see" is all huff and puff!!!
EK pilots should step up and start playing hardball now!!! Or is the hardtalk reserved for bar-b-ques and hotel layovers?
Would they be the same "surprising number" who were waiting last year to see what would happen and are still here "waiting to see what happens" before deciding to "wait and see what happens" next year?
EK will continue to shove and bully its pilots around so long as the pilots take it.
The key to making things better at EK is managements absolute determination that the "EMIRATES" brand name stays intact.
If flights get cancelled due to pilot shortages or sickness and the media gets interested in the whys of said cancellations I am sure that pilots would soon find their job lots improve.
Talking about the "wait and see" is all huff and puff!!!
EK pilots should step up and start playing hardball now!!! Or is the hardtalk reserved for bar-b-ques and hotel layovers?
They the type John Wayne use to chase?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Replies
Afternoon all.
Some quick replies:
Marooned: The BA pension may be good on paper today. I doubt todays pilots will see much of it in the end though.
sony: Seems your argument is defeated by your own logic. You speak of "higher pay". I speak of the package. The two cannot be compared. As you say "money is not everything"
Snake man: I concede that "collapse" may be the wrong word. However I will contend that it will barely resemble the company it is today. Call it restructured, fragmented or whatever but its current form will collapse. Its liabilities show it has to.
LHR Rain: "only 265 qualified applicants". Check your source. Make sure he/she is sober.
Aviator757: Too much time on type? Modernise. Again I say compare package not salary. Not too difficult to do even the old fashioned way. On the other note: Nothing surprising will happen in the next few weeks or even months with regards to what you are alluding to.
EFC 3 Days: You hit the nail on the head buddy. I'm sure all the same names will be saying the same things a year from now. And yes keep the "hardball" talk for those beer moments. Venting is helpful. But you cannot compete with the company in the hardball arena.
Must rush. I dont seem to get as much idle time as some.
Some quick replies:
Marooned: The BA pension may be good on paper today. I doubt todays pilots will see much of it in the end though.
sony: Seems your argument is defeated by your own logic. You speak of "higher pay". I speak of the package. The two cannot be compared. As you say "money is not everything"
Snake man: I concede that "collapse" may be the wrong word. However I will contend that it will barely resemble the company it is today. Call it restructured, fragmented or whatever but its current form will collapse. Its liabilities show it has to.
LHR Rain: "only 265 qualified applicants". Check your source. Make sure he/she is sober.
Aviator757: Too much time on type? Modernise. Again I say compare package not salary. Not too difficult to do even the old fashioned way. On the other note: Nothing surprising will happen in the next few weeks or even months with regards to what you are alluding to.
EFC 3 Days: You hit the nail on the head buddy. I'm sure all the same names will be saying the same things a year from now. And yes keep the "hardball" talk for those beer moments. Venting is helpful. But you cannot compete with the company in the hardball arena.
Must rush. I dont seem to get as much idle time as some.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A,
I know that you are right.
I was being somewhat disingenuous.
For the moment, given the state of the world economy and consequent reduced demand for air travel, there are plenty of experienced transport pilots on the beach.
As the world economy recovers, as it will, this labor surplus will be gradually absorbed.
In the long run, who will remain with, or seek employment with, a carrier with a long record of treating its pilots poorly?
Although conditions must improve as demand for crews increases, an airline badly regarded on the street will not likely attract the cream of the crop in its applicant pool.
I know that you are right.
I was being somewhat disingenuous.
For the moment, given the state of the world economy and consequent reduced demand for air travel, there are plenty of experienced transport pilots on the beach.
As the world economy recovers, as it will, this labor surplus will be gradually absorbed.
In the long run, who will remain with, or seek employment with, a carrier with a long record of treating its pilots poorly?
Although conditions must improve as demand for crews increases, an airline badly regarded on the street will not likely attract the cream of the crop in its applicant pool.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sandy beach
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviator 757 is sadly correct....MM is way off and deflecting the facts. The package at EK is average at best and compared to CX is falls FAR short. A year 1 CX captain makes 55,000 drm/ month base pay. Take your package MM, put a bow and ribbon on it - CX makes on average 30-40 % more than EK, even with the small tax rate in HKG. The overtime is real overtime at a reasonable threshold of 84 hours. I could go on and on...
MM your so called package assertion needs serious review. I suggest the powers that be have a close look and EK's pay rates and do something about it. They are painfully low.
MM your so called package assertion needs serious review. I suggest the powers that be have a close look and EK's pay rates and do something about it. They are painfully low.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you opt to buy accom in HKG, CX also gives you 25000DHS per month. Look at the difference over 10 years and a CX pilot is way better off. KA deal is also good. EK is not close!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sandy beach
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True BB, CX was 10 years from junior SO, now perhaps up to 15, and EK was 3 years to command and now will be 6-8+, keeping in mind EK starts from FO position with most having much more experience than a starting CX SO. We have to compare apples to apples here.
CX is still a better package, with a much higher salary and we are talking about B scale....A scale is not even on the same planet.
CX is still a better package, with a much higher salary and we are talking about B scale....A scale is not even on the same planet.
Last edited by Saltaire; 23rd Mar 2010 at 06:46.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: sand box
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have flown with Cathay pilots who have joined EK in the last couple of years who do not have a good word to say about them. More Cathay pilots have joined EK than have left EK to join Cathay.
As for applicants I can assure you that there are over 200 applications in from UK pilots alone, a large number being from BMI and Virgin. We have to keep things realistic I want to see a payrise and good profit share but to compare EK with Qatar,Gulf Air etc just makes me smile. I have a good friend in Qatar who would bite his right arm off to work for EK.
These forums are getting more desparate by the day what happened to the 30 people leaving for turkish airlines??? managment just sit and laugh at us clutching at straws. The fact is the pilot turnover is still very small and until the world economy really comes out of recession we do not have much power to influence things. Our time will come I have seen it all before.
As for applicants I can assure you that there are over 200 applications in from UK pilots alone, a large number being from BMI and Virgin. We have to keep things realistic I want to see a payrise and good profit share but to compare EK with Qatar,Gulf Air etc just makes me smile. I have a good friend in Qatar who would bite his right arm off to work for EK.
These forums are getting more desparate by the day what happened to the 30 people leaving for turkish airlines??? managment just sit and laugh at us clutching at straws. The fact is the pilot turnover is still very small and until the world economy really comes out of recession we do not have much power to influence things. Our time will come I have seen it all before.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sandy beach
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'll find they left CX for EK due to personal reasons, likely deemed unsuitable to upgrade and or the time to upgrade as they can start at EK as an FO, not because EK is a better package. There is more to it than meets the eye... You see what you want to see, just like EK management. EK is trying to sell a deteroirating contract that changes by the week...instead of waiting for things to change how about EK stepping up and improving the package? Shouldn't be difficult for a company that is about to announce over a 2 billion Dirham profit on the backs of it's exhausted employees.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emratty supplies a more realistic view than the utter rubbish that poses as statistics in regards to leavers, joiners and applicants.
Firstly no one has named a better package from an airline that is actively recruiting because they cannot. Salary is no comparision if that is all the competition supplies. Where is housing, education, up to 15% fund contribution, medical, insurance, transport? Go ahead make my day if you can find one. EK monitors the competition closely and right now its a buyers market. The aviation business is a tough game. It is time to wake up to this reality or quit the profession.
Secondly apart from those airlines mentioned there are some other majors either going under or laying off pilots in their droves. Believe it: There are hundreds of more than qualified applicants on the books and more arriving daily. And EK will be employing hundreds over the next year.
Thirdly the rate of attrition (due resignation) is actually decreasing now. It was close to a respectable 2.5% but is now dropping. That is monitored too.
A very small percentage of EK pilots will continue to write about the coming exodus. It will not happen. The list of those available to fly on days off is impressive too.
So
The aircraft will fly.
The pilots will come to work.
Of this all can rest assured.
P.S. Word of advice: Don't bite the hand that feeds.
Firstly no one has named a better package from an airline that is actively recruiting because they cannot. Salary is no comparision if that is all the competition supplies. Where is housing, education, up to 15% fund contribution, medical, insurance, transport? Go ahead make my day if you can find one. EK monitors the competition closely and right now its a buyers market. The aviation business is a tough game. It is time to wake up to this reality or quit the profession.
Secondly apart from those airlines mentioned there are some other majors either going under or laying off pilots in their droves. Believe it: There are hundreds of more than qualified applicants on the books and more arriving daily. And EK will be employing hundreds over the next year.
Thirdly the rate of attrition (due resignation) is actually decreasing now. It was close to a respectable 2.5% but is now dropping. That is monitored too.
A very small percentage of EK pilots will continue to write about the coming exodus. It will not happen. The list of those available to fly on days off is impressive too.
So
The aircraft will fly.
The pilots will come to work.
Of this all can rest assured.
P.S. Word of advice: Don't bite the hand that feeds.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UAE
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
emratty
There are a few EK guys who have left for Vietnam and Oman Air. Does that make them better operators. Management does laugh at us when they see guys like you writing garbage on the walls. Your opinion is not shared by the majority. No one came from CX for better money or conditions but a quicker upgrade that EK was able to deliver earlier. Now it is a very different scenario.
EK contract was bloody good 6-7 years ago with average salary,but better life style. I remember having 14-16 days off with no more than average 65 hrs a month.
EK contract was bloody good 6-7 years ago with average salary,but better life style. I remember having 14-16 days off with no more than average 65 hrs a month.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Backabeyond
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup, the package and lifestyle were far better years ago. Why does an airline with such self-proclaimed grand aspirations reduce its package and lifestyle to such mediocrity. Yes, it saves money, but at some point you have to accept any venture has costs. Its not like they are running at a loss.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Home
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anybody, who considers EK to be a better package, better job, or better anything than CX is delusional and has had their head buried in the sand for way to long.
If you tell yourself something for long enough you might actually start to believe it!
EK has become a second rate, and very unprofessionally run airline in a very short period of time. If they don't realise this in the very near future it may be too late to pick up the pieces.
CAV.
If you tell yourself something for long enough you might actually start to believe it!
EK has become a second rate, and very unprofessionally run airline in a very short period of time. If they don't realise this in the very near future it may be too late to pick up the pieces.
CAV.