For DXB's ATC
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: At home
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Regarding tower/approach visits: the easiest way to cut through the red tape is simply call us (phone or frequency) before or after a flight, and we can send someone to your gate, or we meet at the door just below the tower, (B13, or F?) on the other side.
Of course your time is precious before a flight, and even more so after, but it's probably the most hassle free way into the fascinating world of DXB ATC.
Of course your time is precious before a flight, and even more so after, but it's probably the most hassle free way into the fascinating world of DXB ATC.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UAE
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Just because a speed is mandatory does not necessarily mean there is no tolerance!
Altitudes are mandatory, but Mode C is allowed to be 200' off and to achieve a CPL you need only maintain within 50' of the assigned altitude.
AFAIR, and no, I don't have the reference to back this up, +/-10kts is an ICAO standard. [I did find a reference from the UK to what may be taken as +/-5kts; At
levels below FL 280, speed adjustments will be expressed in multiples of 10 kt based on indicated airspeed (IAS) from the AIP, ENR 1.1.3]
The place where the exact speed matters is on final - there aren't many controllers who will have aircraft close enough elsewhere to make +/-10kts much of an issue.
I have NEVER insisted on an exact speed when a pilot has asked to fly within 10kts of that I've just assigned, other than on final and where wake turbulence separation must be applied.
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Now for the ROD - that is also an ICAO standard, and a minimum rate of climb or descent of of 500fpm is mandatory. It really does matter in the Dubai CTA. Often, traffic for Sharjah is in the mix too, and vertical separation is often used between DXB and SHJ traffic given the proximity of the approaches. Also, we often want to get arrivals through DARAX beneath departures via RIKET (30 direction), for example. If you mosey on down to your cleared altitude at a glacial ROD, you're not really helping! When we have busy arriving traffic from both DESDI and BUBIN, we often vector the traffic from the arrival gate closest to the runway (DESDI for 12, BUBIN for 30) to the north of Sharjah, to feed them into the downwind. There is a great deal less pucker factor when vertical separation is assured, as with certain operators we can't rely on their rate of turn to fit into the downwind where we would normally expect them.
I often use the phrase "when ready" with a descent clearance. That means exactly that - in that instance I do NOT need you to maintain any particular rate of descent and if you wish to stop off at the previously cleared altitude, go right ahead. I use "when ready" when there is no vertical separation issue between you and anyone beneath you as far as your cleared altitude, and I give that instruction in order that you can arrange your own descent profile. If I intend to vector you on a profile much shorter or longer than the STAR, I will tell you if time allows.
Altitudes are mandatory, but Mode C is allowed to be 200' off and to achieve a CPL you need only maintain within 50' of the assigned altitude.
AFAIR, and no, I don't have the reference to back this up, +/-10kts is an ICAO standard. [I did find a reference from the UK to what may be taken as +/-5kts; At
levels below FL 280, speed adjustments will be expressed in multiples of 10 kt based on indicated airspeed (IAS) from the AIP, ENR 1.1.3]
The place where the exact speed matters is on final - there aren't many controllers who will have aircraft close enough elsewhere to make +/-10kts much of an issue.
I have NEVER insisted on an exact speed when a pilot has asked to fly within 10kts of that I've just assigned, other than on final and where wake turbulence separation must be applied.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the ROD - that is also an ICAO standard, and a minimum rate of climb or descent of of 500fpm is mandatory. It really does matter in the Dubai CTA. Often, traffic for Sharjah is in the mix too, and vertical separation is often used between DXB and SHJ traffic given the proximity of the approaches. Also, we often want to get arrivals through DARAX beneath departures via RIKET (30 direction), for example. If you mosey on down to your cleared altitude at a glacial ROD, you're not really helping! When we have busy arriving traffic from both DESDI and BUBIN, we often vector the traffic from the arrival gate closest to the runway (DESDI for 12, BUBIN for 30) to the north of Sharjah, to feed them into the downwind. There is a great deal less pucker factor when vertical separation is assured, as with certain operators we can't rely on their rate of turn to fit into the downwind where we would normally expect them.
I often use the phrase "when ready" with a descent clearance. That means exactly that - in that instance I do NOT need you to maintain any particular rate of descent and if you wish to stop off at the previously cleared altitude, go right ahead. I use "when ready" when there is no vertical separation issue between you and anyone beneath you as far as your cleared altitude, and I give that instruction in order that you can arrange your own descent profile. If I intend to vector you on a profile much shorter or longer than the STAR, I will tell you if time allows.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
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Morooned---I think Scooby just cleared it up! The few knots that are carried to keep the flaps up mean little when you just passed Desdi on the downwind for 30L and have 20 plus track miles to go. It makes no sense to go flaps 1 etc to slow by 6 knots and drag it around.
In the end, good airmanship says that a simple response to ATC asking to stay at min clean "x knots" clears up any issues - he'll tell us whether that works or not and, as Scooby mentioned, that is generally the case.
My comment about TCAS was about its use on final. If I see the guy 3 miles straight ahead of me I know I am tight and vice versa. Speeds on final are much more straight forward (180 and 160) and so much easier to maintain.
In the end, good airmanship says that a simple response to ATC asking to stay at min clean "x knots" clears up any issues - he'll tell us whether that works or not and, as Scooby mentioned, that is generally the case.
My comment about TCAS was about its use on final. If I see the guy 3 miles straight ahead of me I know I am tight and vice versa. Speeds on final are much more straight forward (180 and 160) and so much easier to maintain.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
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It's a fair cop. I would however like to see the reference that relates to tolerances in the terminal area and not just below FL 280.
All things being equal I personally try and do the speeds accurately because we can, 'airmanship'. I get the points made but in reality that means someone can be doing 260 below 10K, another 240, one 170 to 10, another 190 and so on. +/- 10 knots can mean 20 in combination. I also find Flaps 1, which after all is only slats, a more efficient, stable and manoeuvrable configuration in the terminal area.
I don't waste fuel and do my best to save as much as possible as safely as possible. An example is using Flap 25 when possible instead of straight to Flap 30 to maintain 160 between 10 and 5 miles... less fuel, less noise...but that of course could mean 150 or 170
All things being equal I personally try and do the speeds accurately because we can, 'airmanship'. I get the points made but in reality that means someone can be doing 260 below 10K, another 240, one 170 to 10, another 190 and so on. +/- 10 knots can mean 20 in combination. I also find Flaps 1, which after all is only slats, a more efficient, stable and manoeuvrable configuration in the terminal area.
I don't waste fuel and do my best to save as much as possible as safely as possible. An example is using Flap 25 when possible instead of straight to Flap 30 to maintain 160 between 10 and 5 miles... less fuel, less noise...but that of course could mean 150 or 170
