EK Crew fatigue
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TCTC has no sympathy for the 'lazy' pilots/crew and thinks he can get even more out of us according to a quote from a recent management meeting... seriously!
We have to look after ourselves... no job, least of all EK, is worth getting ill or worse having a career ending incident or accident for. The EK clinic know the effect it is having physically and mentally... it is taking its toll.
No other airline does the pattern/hour combinations we're doing. We are the lab rats in the sad new world of the greed fueled, inadequately regulated airline industry.
They couldn't give a rats a**se about us. FUEK
We have to look after ourselves... no job, least of all EK, is worth getting ill or worse having a career ending incident or accident for. The EK clinic know the effect it is having physically and mentally... it is taking its toll.
No other airline does the pattern/hour combinations we're doing. We are the lab rats in the sad new world of the greed fueled, inadequately regulated airline industry.
They couldn't give a rats a**se about us. FUEK
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a farm in the sand
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK Crew fatigue
A while ago there was a very proud statement about some or other Prof from Nasa that did a study about fatigue. I just want to know if that study was done when the hours flown was average of about 75. Will they be prepared to get that same Prof back again for another study now that the average hours went up to 90? Just wondering!!!!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sandpit.
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"No other airline does the pattern/hour combinations we're doing. We are the lab rats in the sad new world of the greed fueled, inadequately regulated airline industry" .... Marooned.
Of course there are other airlines who fly their crews hard, try talking to some KAL, EVA, CAL, Air China, etc crews. 1000 hours a year, plus there is always speculation and rumour that the limit will be raised to 1200 hours a year.
The KAL 744 and 777 crews typically spend up to 120 a month in the aircraft to accumulate 80 hours stick time.
I stand to be corrected though ....
Of course there are other airlines who fly their crews hard, try talking to some KAL, EVA, CAL, Air China, etc crews. 1000 hours a year, plus there is always speculation and rumour that the limit will be raised to 1200 hours a year.
The KAL 744 and 777 crews typically spend up to 120 a month in the aircraft to accumulate 80 hours stick time.
I stand to be corrected though ....
Join Date: May 2002
Location: dubai
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About time too!
What are the "authorities" doing about all this? Being a third world country it must have an ICAO representative in residence, surely.
Maybe they are all in the pocket of EK.
What are the "authorities" doing about all this? Being a third world country it must have an ICAO representative in residence, surely.
Maybe they are all in the pocket of EK.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Palm
Posts: 702
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
it must have an ICAO representative in residence, surely
EASA (ex-JAA) is the first cross-border institution, but allows individual countries to change some of the regulations to suit their operators.
IOSA membership is voluntary, expensive, pretigious and it works in most cases. FAA serves mainly the USA and screens countries abilities on safety to deter possible problems into the USA.
If regulations are being followed against the operators' own Ops Manual, ramp checkers won't take any action.
A CAA can come with 1400 (hope never) hours and this won't be challenged by anyone else if specified in the approved Ops Manual.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Far and Height
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...anyway my EK friend told me that Ed D......n last mail was threatenig him and his colleagues to be invited to the Chief Pilot or even Civil Aviation office if he didn't sign his...master CFP...
What a lack of situation awareness,treating these guys like kids scared by the teacher,when for example my friend was just back from a couple of night flights from India,flying every month aroud 90+ hours...carrying part of the existence of ths company on his shoulders with all other guys...
but threatened to be called out to the office for a missing signature,when EGT himself was spreading the word that if office copy was signed it was enough...
The guys are exhausted but some sarcastic horses keep treating them like unresponsible boys...
Lost the sense of reality...no future for that kind of guy...
What a lack of situation awareness,treating these guys like kids scared by the teacher,when for example my friend was just back from a couple of night flights from India,flying every month aroud 90+ hours...carrying part of the existence of ths company on his shoulders with all other guys...
but threatened to be called out to the office for a missing signature,when EGT himself was spreading the word that if office copy was signed it was enough...
The guys are exhausted but some sarcastic horses keep treating them like unresponsible boys...
Lost the sense of reality...no future for that kind of guy...
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Attached to a Boeing.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatigue
I am presently running at 104+ hours in 28 days which is clearly only made legal by factoring and so becomes 96 hours in 28. Is this safe? I dont think so and yet our management are quite happy to continue rostering us to these unsafe levels. When this was happening on the A345 a few years ago the guys filed ASR after ASR and eventually got the GCAA involved. Sometime after this the pilots hours reduced. So now it is the turn of the 777 to experience the delights of EK lack of crew and rostering unsafe work practices.
My question is. If you were involved in an incident/accident in a country such as the UK what is the situation re factoring and the 28 day limit. I am pretty certain that the UK CAA does not recognise factoring and therefore when the subsequent accident report is published it will be shown that you were operating in breach of JAA regulations. It may be the case that by operating in a non uk registered aircraft in the UK you are not subject to the same rules. Is this the case?
Earlier in this thread someone asked "Are pilots getting fatigued". Answer. A definate yes. I for one intend for 2010 to file fatigue ASR's and sign off fatigued if necessary as this situation cannot be allowed to continue unless EK wants to end up paying the price that all airlines that have ignored safety end up in.
My question is. If you were involved in an incident/accident in a country such as the UK what is the situation re factoring and the 28 day limit. I am pretty certain that the UK CAA does not recognise factoring and therefore when the subsequent accident report is published it will be shown that you were operating in breach of JAA regulations. It may be the case that by operating in a non uk registered aircraft in the UK you are not subject to the same rules. Is this the case?
Earlier in this thread someone asked "Are pilots getting fatigued". Answer. A definate yes. I for one intend for 2010 to file fatigue ASR's and sign off fatigued if necessary as this situation cannot be allowed to continue unless EK wants to end up paying the price that all airlines that have ignored safety end up in.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 30 West
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankie, you are one hundred per cent correct. Management can even say that they are looking into the fatigue issue, our hours will reduce, you will get relief, blah blah. None of us will see any change until they reduce the overtime threshold. That is when we will actually see any change.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: chinqa
Age: 55
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst I understand that things are not as good in EK as they were, you guys are still better off than lots. Come to China and fly.
22/23 hour duty, 2 or 3 sector days are legal and the normal. Then at the end we are often expected to sit around at an airport for 3 hrs or so before a 2/3hr economy flight within China back to homebase I frequently can be on the go for nearly 30 hrs.
Believe me there is always someone worse off.!!
22/23 hour duty, 2 or 3 sector days are legal and the normal. Then at the end we are often expected to sit around at an airport for 3 hrs or so before a 2/3hr economy flight within China back to homebase I frequently can be on the go for nearly 30 hrs.
Believe me there is always someone worse off.!!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Latest complete cr*p from the office: cabin crew are not allowed to 'rest' on the flight deck (reports coming from briefing that pilots allow it)!! Tehy are also threatening punishable action if crew are allowed to do so!! Another wedge between us!!
So now if tired / fatigued you have to right an ASR - this will keep Tim CLark happy!! How can he really congratulate us for acheiving 40,000 ASRs - the man and the rest of them in the office are on planet ZARK, what a load of prats.
So now if tired / fatigued you have to right an ASR - this will keep Tim CLark happy!! How can he really congratulate us for acheiving 40,000 ASRs - the man and the rest of them in the office are on planet ZARK, what a load of prats.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check your mailbox and read the latest Xmas message from our training donkey MM. about SEP 
Is there a way to block these emails in Notes? I don't want to read their cr@p any more.
Is there a way to block these emails in Notes? I don't want to read their cr@p any more.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: evicted
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would you rather review stale ASRs for two hours, or go on a roller coaster ride with the girls? 
I think it's a great idea. The last time they've done it I was afraid of flying for 2 months though.
, or go on a roller coaster ride with the girls? I think it's a great idea. The last time they've done it I was afraid of flying for 2 months though.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Palm
Posts: 702
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Computer typo caused Emirates jet's tail-strike.
Pilot error blamed for Emirates near disaster at Melbourne Airport | AVIATION-NEWS
Easy to judge afterwards...
Pilot error blamed for Emirates near disaster at Melbourne Airport | AVIATION-NEWS
The captain and first officer both had a 30 hour break since their previous flight, but an earlier report said the captain had only slept for 3 1/2 out of the previous 24 hours.
"We have not at this stage seen anything that would lead us to the view that fatigue is a significant contributor to this," Mr Dolan told reporters in Canberra this morning.
"We have not at this stage seen anything that would lead us to the view that fatigue is a significant contributor to this," Mr Dolan told reporters in Canberra this morning.