EgyptAir in hot water with the EU
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For Ramp Checks to have credibility, ICAO must take the lead besides "recommending only". Recommending leaves countries and associations of countries to get themselves together and create SOPs to ensure home and visiting operators stick to the rules.
As one can imagine, this will be always disputed because the accused will always say they are receiving unfair treatment or the competitor or neighbour is getting preferable treatment.
Arabs back Yemenia as French safety row deepens Why shouldn't they? Then what?! Remember the "real" decisions out of every ordinary or extraordinary meeting of the Arab League... Window dressing.
I would not hesitate much in saying that many countries worldwide are very credible and serious about their operating standards, but still it is seen as a single or regional country's decision rather than global.
IOSA was a good start, but it is also an airline money making machine... with very high costs. Some may disagree, but I read it this way. How about the non-adhering non-complying operators? No one will stop them from operating and at a much lower cost.
As an example, a second string operator (non-IATA), operating a KRT-DXB route, will not have the same training costs and standards as EK or FlyDubai. Will this be a fair deal?
We need a new, credible and serious "world order" where there has to be a large number of items to ensure safety is paramount.
FTLs are something which is easily "read and perceived" differently worldwide and every single country has its own rules and this is accepted as long as it is adhered to.
As one can imagine, this will be always disputed because the accused will always say they are receiving unfair treatment or the competitor or neighbour is getting preferable treatment.
Arabs back Yemenia as French safety row deepens Why shouldn't they? Then what?! Remember the "real" decisions out of every ordinary or extraordinary meeting of the Arab League... Window dressing.
I would not hesitate much in saying that many countries worldwide are very credible and serious about their operating standards, but still it is seen as a single or regional country's decision rather than global.
IOSA was a good start, but it is also an airline money making machine... with very high costs. Some may disagree, but I read it this way. How about the non-adhering non-complying operators? No one will stop them from operating and at a much lower cost.
As an example, a second string operator (non-IATA), operating a KRT-DXB route, will not have the same training costs and standards as EK or FlyDubai. Will this be a fair deal?
We need a new, credible and serious "world order" where there has to be a large number of items to ensure safety is paramount.
FTLs are something which is easily "read and perceived" differently worldwide and every single country has its own rules and this is accepted as long as it is adhered to.
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So, what was the outcome of
The Member States shall ensure that the number of
inspections of Egypt Air will be intensified in order to
provide the basis for a reassessment of this case during
the next Air Safety Committee meeting which is to take
place in November 2009.
inspections of Egypt Air will be intensified in order to
provide the basis for a reassessment of this case during
the next Air Safety Committee meeting which is to take
place in November 2009.
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As an example, a second string operator (non-IATA), operating a KRT-DXB route, will not have the same training costs and standards as EK or FlyDubai. Will this be a fair deal?
We need a new, credible and serious "world order" where there has to be a large number of items to ensure safety is paramount.
We need no such thing.
If, on the other hand, we had this 'world order', I wonder where AirFrance would fall in the rankings...with their highest hull loss record in Europe?
Pot calling kettle black, seems to me.
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I 'see' perfectly well, fractional...you appear to be an 'elitist' and look down your nose at smaller, yet perfectly successful, air carriers.
Care to address my AirFrance comment?
You know the airline, with the absolute highest hull loss record in 'elitest' Europe.
Care to address my AirFrance comment?
You know the airline, with the absolute highest hull loss record in 'elitest' Europe.
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411A, if you know what "world football" is and the recent events in World Cup qualifiers, I'll say to you that I'm no Thierry Henry or Michel Platini to cradle Air France to the summit of safety standards and pretend all is well.
This thread is not between me and you, so (please) focus on the subject and lets' not wander around. If you wish to carry on, you can keep the cup with the "hand of Thierry or Maradona" if you like.
My comment was about the fragilities in the safety checking system around the world with special incidence on countries where AOCs are issued (or re-issued) and fail to carry out stringent checks.
ICAO has to engage and ensure all countries follow stringent safety standards, audit them frequently across the spectrum so that some non-complaint operators based non-compliant countries do not take (commercial) advantage operating their aircraft at all.
I rest my case.
This thread is not between me and you, so (please) focus on the subject and lets' not wander around. If you wish to carry on, you can keep the cup with the "hand of Thierry or Maradona" if you like.
My comment was about the fragilities in the safety checking system around the world with special incidence on countries where AOCs are issued (or re-issued) and fail to carry out stringent checks.
ICAO has to engage and ensure all countries follow stringent safety standards, audit them frequently across the spectrum so that some non-complaint operators based non-compliant countries do not take (commercial) advantage operating their aircraft at all.
I rest my case.
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Not hard to see why their little neighbour walked over them in 6 days flat, is it?
The only reason EA are not on the Blacklist is the probable political repercussions. E.G., no Egyptian landings or overflights for EU carriers etc., etc. Yes AF should be on the list as well. Oh hang on a minute, France is part of or the EU! Couldn't do that could we?
Things will never change.
Reminds me of the flight deck punch up in the galley. On the ground at Cairo, pax on board, F/o asks the Captain for weather brief. Captain refused and resulting in a punch up in the forward galley, in full view of the pax. Said captain threw the f/o off the aircraft and proceed to destination Sharm single pilot. A320.
The old 3rd world problem of crews not selected on merit and cancerous nepotism. Will take at least one generation to see any improvement, if drastic measures were initiated now. Hell will freeze over first.
The only reason EA are not on the Blacklist is the probable political repercussions. E.G., no Egyptian landings or overflights for EU carriers etc., etc. Yes AF should be on the list as well. Oh hang on a minute, France is part of or the EU! Couldn't do that could we?
Things will never change.
Reminds me of the flight deck punch up in the galley. On the ground at Cairo, pax on board, F/o asks the Captain for weather brief. Captain refused and resulting in a punch up in the forward galley, in full view of the pax. Said captain threw the f/o off the aircraft and proceed to destination Sharm single pilot. A320.
The old 3rd world problem of crews not selected on merit and cancerous nepotism. Will take at least one generation to see any improvement, if drastic measures were initiated now. Hell will freeze over first.
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6 days flat
doubleu-anker
true it took the little neighbour 6 days, but payback was tough & in only 6 hrs ,it was really fun
"always finish the books till the end ".
and as for the rest of the fairy tale,where on earth did you get that from?
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
d-a
take a break
true it took the little neighbour 6 days, but payback was tough & in only 6 hrs ,it was really fun
"always finish the books till the end ".and as for the rest of the fairy tale,where on earth did you get that from?
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
d-a
take a break
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Have a look at this then:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/8...ian-style.html
If the story is untrue then I would suggest EA would have a case against pprune would they not?
it was EA as I was in Cairo during that period and I remember the incident/crime well.
Do you suffer from selective amensia by any chance?
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/8...ian-style.html
If the story is untrue then I would suggest EA would have a case against pprune would they not?
it was EA as I was in Cairo during that period and I remember the incident/crime well.
Do you suffer from selective amensia by any chance?
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selective amensia
i guess that you are the one suffering from amnesia '
have'nt i told you earlier "always finish the books till the end ".look at the end of that thread "pale" it is closed may be for legal issues.
let me tell you that ,
EA is not on top of every thing & they know it over there ,that doesn't anoy them or everyone else exept you ,so why don't you go ahead have case against them with what you have against them ? or
TAKE A BREAK
have'nt i told you earlier "always finish the books till the end ".look at the end of that thread "pale" it is closed may be for legal issues.
let me tell you that ,
EA is not on top of every thing & they know it over there ,that doesn't anoy them or everyone else exept you ,so why don't you go ahead have case against them with what you have against them ? or
TAKE A BREAK
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doubleu-anker, that incident you're referring to isn't quite accurate. First off, there was an disagreement between both pilots which resulted in the co-pilot being relieved of his duties (later suspended). Secondly, a relief pilot was brought in to fly the domestic sector. Thirdly, this did not occur on an EgyptAir flight but on another airline who have since gone bankrupt.
As for the EgyptAir/EU issue, the airline took immediate remedial action when it was informed of the findings. I understand the recent management reshuffle (new CEOs & VPs for the holding company and airline) was in part instigated as a result of safety shortcomings revealed. Without a doubt this was an embarrassment for the airline, since they've made great strides in improving their operations, product and image over the past few years. Hopefully this will instill a stronger safety culture within. I believe the airline has the potential to be leading carrier in its market.
As for the EgyptAir/EU issue, the airline took immediate remedial action when it was informed of the findings. I understand the recent management reshuffle (new CEOs & VPs for the holding company and airline) was in part instigated as a result of safety shortcomings revealed. Without a doubt this was an embarrassment for the airline, since they've made great strides in improving their operations, product and image over the past few years. Hopefully this will instill a stronger safety culture within. I believe the airline has the potential to be leading carrier in its market.
Options for Domestic Egyptian Flights?
I am considering a tour to Egypt. The tour operator uses Egypt Air to get tourists from Cairo to Luxor, etc. Are there any non Egyptian airlines operating on domestic Egyptian routes?
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It is certainly not shocking news that EU is pressing hard on Egypt Air to improve its standard , however , it is very surprising since this Egypt Air is way better than 10 years ago. Of course , this is all relative , but from my own experience with that airline , I must admit that they have improved tremendously in Flight Operations. No idea about their maintenance though.
About Air France...I flew with them a few days back on Geneva -CDG on an A321, Nothing unusual except for lowering the Landing gear quite early and the aircraft was not even on final approach!! Then again , maybe they do not have any serious issue with fuel ... it is probably cheap and plentiful in Air France
About Air France...I flew with them a few days back on Geneva -CDG on an A321, Nothing unusual except for lowering the Landing gear quite early and the aircraft was not even on final approach!! Then again , maybe they do not have any serious issue with fuel ... it is probably cheap and plentiful in Air France
