Emirates Reality
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I H,
what would you consider an exodus ? Right now EK would love to get rid of 100+ surplus pilots. TC said he did not want to let anyone go. If you know anyone in recruitment you would also know that the number of CV's is endless, hence the company motto " take it or leave it". It was also mentioned at a meeting that NO airline right now is looking at a large number of pilot intake. But good luck to the 6 brave FO's going to KAL, I'm sure they were promised an upgrade as well.
what would you consider an exodus ? Right now EK would love to get rid of 100+ surplus pilots. TC said he did not want to let anyone go. If you know anyone in recruitment you would also know that the number of CV's is endless, hence the company motto " take it or leave it". It was also mentioned at a meeting that NO airline right now is looking at a large number of pilot intake. But good luck to the 6 brave FO's going to KAL, I'm sure they were promised an upgrade as well.
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Ticlac said:
"Local GCAA regulations are undermined, maximum duty times ignored – it is all possible, because the chairman of the GCAA is Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum as well."
Not true. For once, can people get it into their heads that Shk A is not the head of the regulatory authority - he is the Cjairman of Ek and the head of what is effectively the airport company - it's just that thr names are similar. Do you seriously think that the FAA would have allowed EK access to the USA if there was such a conflict of interest? No...
"Local GCAA regulations are undermined, maximum duty times ignored – it is all possible, because the chairman of the GCAA is Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum as well."
Not true. For once, can people get it into their heads that Shk A is not the head of the regulatory authority - he is the Cjairman of Ek and the head of what is effectively the airport company - it's just that thr names are similar. Do you seriously think that the FAA would have allowed EK access to the USA if there was such a conflict of interest? No...
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What's the suprise in any of this? EK is a non-unionized, crony-run National Airline for what is essentially a middle east Company Town built on hype and quasi-slave labor.
Pilots have gone there accepting lower-wages, less time-off, and ridiculous scheduling/commuting rules than would be found elsewhere flying the same equipment for the sake of flying the equipment and/or the facade and trappings of a good lifestyle, yet none of the fundamentals of a good lifestyle exist there. And they go with no bargaining power to improve their lot, and none to ever be allowed in the future.
With that 1,000 pound gorrilla on it's back, I've never understood why anyone would fool themselves into thinking it's anything more than somewhere to build some time while looking for another job.
Pilots have gone there accepting lower-wages, less time-off, and ridiculous scheduling/commuting rules than would be found elsewhere flying the same equipment for the sake of flying the equipment and/or the facade and trappings of a good lifestyle, yet none of the fundamentals of a good lifestyle exist there. And they go with no bargaining power to improve their lot, and none to ever be allowed in the future.
With that 1,000 pound gorrilla on it's back, I've never understood why anyone would fool themselves into thinking it's anything more than somewhere to build some time while looking for another job.
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FB,
Not an exodus now, but when things turn. If EK f/o's are going to KAL of all places at this time I'm sure you can imagine what will happen when the cycle swings up. EK will at that point be needing the pilots like everywhere else.
Not an exodus now, but when things turn. If EK f/o's are going to KAL of all places at this time I'm sure you can imagine what will happen when the cycle swings up. EK will at that point be needing the pilots like everywhere else.
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Not true. For once, can people get it into their heads that Shk A is not the head of the regulatory authority - he is the Cjairman of Ek and the head of what is effectively the airport company - it's just that thr names are similar. Do you seriously think that the FAA would have allowed EK access to the USA if there was such a conflict of interest? No...
ps - I have taken the bait if you're trying to wind some ppl up !!
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Ed , yes the DCAA not the GCAA, big difference. It's just asign that you are not from here or you dont know your facts. This gets brought up every 6-12 months by someone that does not bother to check for themselves.
IH, as much as I would love to see an exodus when things pick up , dont see EK being effected that much, we had lot leave a couple of years ago. If anything thats when the pay went up, so if that was to happen I say bring it and good luck to those that leave, might just see you there(where ever there is)
IH, as much as I would love to see an exodus when things pick up , dont see EK being effected that much, we had lot leave a couple of years ago. If anything thats when the pay went up, so if that was to happen I say bring it and good luck to those that leave, might just see you there(where ever there is)
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It is with sadness that the truth of one of our EK colleagues departure (the MAN FO) has been clouded in a fog of mystery which has come out of the recent pilot meetings, the mystery of course is the common belief that he has been reinstated. This is not the case at all !! A few facts need to be looked at to understand where this information has come from.
The ASR was filed and some manager in EK took it upon themselves to get involved because the GA made a small airing in the local press. The Tower did not file against the crew for the GA.
The MAN flight in question was his before line check and a few days later he successfully went on to pass his final L/C. After this he was grounded pending the investigation into the G/A at MAN. He was dismissed following the short investigation along with the TC involved. The FO went for a review of the decision, as he was following the directions of the TC which were of a safe nature. The FO felt that the accusation of gross negligence, as stated by the company, was unjustified as he was under training.
At last week’s pilot threat meeting that I was fortunate enough to attend, the question was asked to talking horse regarding the FO under training on the MAN flight, his response was; “the case is still under review.” He knows damn well that the FO has been fired, he was the one that handed him the termination letter at the review meeting and he has lied through his teeth at this and other pilot meetings whenever asked. From the latest FCI2009-051 Company Regulations;
1.2 Employees are expected to:
Act with courtesy, integrity, honesty and professionalism when dealing with customers, colleagues, suppliers and passengers, whether on or off duty.
Obviously management think they are exempt this company regulation, but why would you believe a word they say after this. The FO leaves the sandpit within the next 2 weeks to a life that has been turned entirely upside down for him and his family. His friends and colleagues who know him are completely stunned by the actions of Emirates and would like all to be made aware, particularly new joiners, if you come here then make sure you have a backup plan because when they want you out, you will not have a leg to stand on. The management will use any silly excuse under training (or testing as is the recognised process now, actually anytime for that fact) to terminate you whilst clouding that decision in mystery as to whether you have been terminated or not, just to deflect flak and make themselves look competent. Shame on you EK management
The ASR was filed and some manager in EK took it upon themselves to get involved because the GA made a small airing in the local press. The Tower did not file against the crew for the GA.
The MAN flight in question was his before line check and a few days later he successfully went on to pass his final L/C. After this he was grounded pending the investigation into the G/A at MAN. He was dismissed following the short investigation along with the TC involved. The FO went for a review of the decision, as he was following the directions of the TC which were of a safe nature. The FO felt that the accusation of gross negligence, as stated by the company, was unjustified as he was under training.
At last week’s pilot threat meeting that I was fortunate enough to attend, the question was asked to talking horse regarding the FO under training on the MAN flight, his response was; “the case is still under review.” He knows damn well that the FO has been fired, he was the one that handed him the termination letter at the review meeting and he has lied through his teeth at this and other pilot meetings whenever asked. From the latest FCI2009-051 Company Regulations;
1.2 Employees are expected to:
Act with courtesy, integrity, honesty and professionalism when dealing with customers, colleagues, suppliers and passengers, whether on or off duty.
Obviously management think they are exempt this company regulation, but why would you believe a word they say after this. The FO leaves the sandpit within the next 2 weeks to a life that has been turned entirely upside down for him and his family. His friends and colleagues who know him are completely stunned by the actions of Emirates and would like all to be made aware, particularly new joiners, if you come here then make sure you have a backup plan because when they want you out, you will not have a leg to stand on. The management will use any silly excuse under training (or testing as is the recognised process now, actually anytime for that fact) to terminate you whilst clouding that decision in mystery as to whether you have been terminated or not, just to deflect flak and make themselves look competent. Shame on you EK management
LR 3.........
GREAT post!
So..........what's it to be? League, Union or AFL?
At the moment I'd say your notions of a warm beer at the footy would pretty much preclude you being at an AFL match, particularly where I'm living! Cold pies 'yes'...........warm beers 'NO'.
All it took me was about 3.8 seconds after I settled here to appreciate the 'no f**kin dust' aspect, and that my life had finally returned to normal!
I have to tell you it was a really special day for me when I signed off for the last time, knew I had all the loose ends tied-up (bank account closed, exit visa in place etc etc), all my stuff was already sent home through DHL, I had a confirmed booking on a flight out of the bl00dy place that night, and then finally realising it was all happening as we lifted-off, and knowing that no-one where I worked had a clue that I'd just left.....forever!!
Your comment:
is sooooo true.
And after all that's written here on PPRuNe you really have to wonder WHY?
GREAT post!
So..........what's it to be? League, Union or AFL?
At the moment I'd say your notions of a warm beer at the footy would pretty much preclude you being at an AFL match, particularly where I'm living! Cold pies 'yes'...........warm beers 'NO'.
All it took me was about 3.8 seconds after I settled here to appreciate the 'no f**kin dust' aspect, and that my life had finally returned to normal!
I have to tell you it was a really special day for me when I signed off for the last time, knew I had all the loose ends tied-up (bank account closed, exit visa in place etc etc), all my stuff was already sent home through DHL, I had a confirmed booking on a flight out of the bl00dy place that night, and then finally realising it was all happening as we lifted-off, and knowing that no-one where I worked had a clue that I'd just left.....forever!!
Your comment:
And still people want to come here and fly [work??] for these cretins.
And after all that's written here on PPRuNe you really have to wonder WHY?
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I can second that, most guys I've talked to have pretty much made their minds up, and plan on leaving as soon as the job market opens up. Me included. Won't be too long, esp. once the age 65 mandated retirements start.
Thing is though, management thinks that they will still get tons of applications when they're going to start hiring again, but I think that currently only real desperate people will come (and I can understand that, been there done that), but in the future it will be increasingly difficult because I think they have shown their true face and people will remember that.
The only people that are still somewhat happy right now are those that came from third world carriers/countries, but even they get pi$$ed off eventually.
My $0.02
Thing is though, management thinks that they will still get tons of applications when they're going to start hiring again, but I think that currently only real desperate people will come (and I can understand that, been there done that), but in the future it will be increasingly difficult because I think they have shown their true face and people will remember that.
The only people that are still somewhat happy right now are those that came from third world carriers/countries, but even they get pi$$ed off eventually.
My $0.02
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And there's the irony; when EK start recruiting so will everyone else... but Q: who has the pool of most experienced Airbus/Boeing pilots looking for work? A: Emirates.
FUEK.
FUEK.
Marooned....
FUEK
Sounds right on the money from what I continue to read here.
In my case it was FUQR (and that's probably the most appropriate way to describe the management of that particular outfit, I can tell you).
FUEK
Sounds right on the money from what I continue to read here.
In my case it was FUQR (and that's probably the most appropriate way to describe the management of that particular outfit, I can tell you).
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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The only people that are still somewhat happy right now are those that came from third world carriers/countries, but even they get pi$$ed off eventually.
Lots of captains leave then lots of FOs get upgrades and forget their miserable past, lots of FOs leave and they get replaced by a tidal wave of pilots anxious to improve their lot and stay put living in conditions they could only dream of in their own country.
It is a fact of aviation life, management almost always win!
(No, not now or ever have I been management
).
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Willie
Is one allowed to say black or white?
Parrabellum; I understand your point. I have only 10 years to go, but think that things will only get better as long as we all understand the 'Management' strategies. I was a strong believer in the NSPA when I flew the 'big birds' on the North Sea. The same applies now, as it did then: We need to stick together.
I now fly an easier 'big bird'
Parrabellum; I understand your point. I have only 10 years to go, but think that things will only get better as long as we all understand the 'Management' strategies. I was a strong believer in the NSPA when I flew the 'big birds' on the North Sea. The same applies now, as it did then: We need to stick together.
I now fly an easier 'big bird'
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Originally Posted by Parabellum
Very true, but as what they would have in EK is better than what they get in India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Ethiopia/ Ghana etc. etc. they will come and they will stay and there are hundreds if not thousands of them ready and waiting too. A captain in Indian Airlines joined GF as a B767 FO, he had accommodation, schooling, utilities allowance etc. etc. all better than in India and his salary, as an FO, was better than as a captain in India, under those circumstances it is amazing how much crap people will put up with
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Sun N Fun
Here we go again. For those of you that might not know I am going to take the opportunity to educate you. Only Europeans, Australians, Kiwis or white South Africans can operate aircraft to a so-called first world standard. If you are not from one of these centres of aviation excellence then you are a monkey and should be paid peanuts.
This is the attitude just below the surface at EK. Some of these superior aviators will happily take the job but then they make pernicious comments about their employers, (non-white) co-workers and passengers.
Let's be clear - Emirates is owned and run by Arabs and a large part of the revenue that the airline earns comes from Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, Nigerians and yes Ghananians. You guys really need to get over yourselves and study history. The "white is right" fight has been fought and lost many times.
Or maybe you are just trying to re-invigorate that part of history in which your ancestors enriched themselves at the expense of what is now known as the third world.
ATSU
Here we go again. For those of you that might not know I am going to take the opportunity to educate you. Only Europeans, Australians, Kiwis or white South Africans can operate aircraft to a so-called first world standard. If you are not from one of these centres of aviation excellence then you are a monkey and should be paid peanuts.
This is the attitude just below the surface at EK. Some of these superior aviators will happily take the job but then they make pernicious comments about their employers, (non-white) co-workers and passengers.
Let's be clear - Emirates is owned and run by Arabs and a large part of the revenue that the airline earns comes from Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, Nigerians and yes Ghananians. You guys really need to get over yourselves and study history. The "white is right" fight has been fought and lost many times.
Or maybe you are just trying to re-invigorate that part of history in which your ancestors enriched themselves at the expense of what is now known as the third world.
ATSU