More DEC's for EK
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the DEC's are really involved in more safety related incidents than home grown captains, may I suggest that selectiion and the training departments are not doing their job properly. As a point of interest, were the Jo'Burg and Melbourne captains DEC's?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daviddea,
Just to correct the nonsense you just posted, 'only' around 15% of EK Capts are DEC's.
(yet again guys, if you don't have a clue about the subject, then please spare us the benefit of your wisdom!!)
Just to correct the nonsense you just posted, 'only' around 15% of EK Capts are DEC's.
(yet again guys, if you don't have a clue about the subject, then please spare us the benefit of your wisdom!!)
(yet again guys, if you don't have a clue about the subject, then please spare us the benefit of your wisdom!!)
There have not been any recent DECs, the "New" Captains on the 777 are transfers from the 'Bus.
Does your admonishment cover people posting innaccurate anti company information, or only those posting innaccurate pro company information?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: i don't know
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
talking about such:
or:
Very, very dangerous statements. Can the pretentious issuer follow up with any kind of proof/numbers? - Hardly.
If EK's CRM is criticised on these pages, then this guy displays an even worse comprehension of it.
Having heard a lot of arguments during the Captains meeting, there was a lot of FO bashing going on. I find this just as despicable as the DEC bashing.
The issue is insufficient training, ever changing, silly SOPs and an extremely poor leadership and CRM by EK. Concentrate on that and not on your fellow pilots, PLEASE.
and DEC's have a higher rate of issues with respect to flight safety and personal issues
your DEC Captain knows less about the aircraft and the operation than you do!
Very, very dangerous statements. Can the pretentious issuer follow up with any kind of proof/numbers? - Hardly.
If EK's CRM is criticised on these pages, then this guy displays an even worse comprehension of it.
Having heard a lot of arguments during the Captains meeting, there was a lot of FO bashing going on. I find this just as despicable as the DEC bashing.
The issue is insufficient training, ever changing, silly SOPs and an extremely poor leadership and CRM by EK. Concentrate on that and not on your fellow pilots, PLEASE.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hole in the wall
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When we got DEC's on the bus fleet 5 years ago there were 2 absolute tossers and maybe 1 or 2 marginal ones (all from around this area), the rest were (are) great operators as well as good guys.
If you have a problem with DEC's, blame the company, not the pilots who are only applying for a job. I sure as hell won't leave EK unless it is for a DEC position!!
If you have a problem with DEC's, blame the company, not the pilots who are only applying for a job. I sure as hell won't leave EK unless it is for a DEC position!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with DECs is not the personalities it's the principle.
No one has yet explained WHY we need them??? Is it for safety? If so we can all come up with statistics one way or another to prove that DECs are just as likely to have (and have had) incidents/accidents. Is it to dilute the EK culture? If so a tacit admission that something rotten in the state of EK. What else? WHY??? If it is because their cheap then I guess that we'll get what we pay for... but even that argument is full of holes.
Ultimately I suppose it is because they, or that hobbit TCAS, can but what utter low level underhand management we are witnessing.
We have qualified pilots, many with previous command experience, within our own ranks. They have 3-5 years experience of EK ops and route structure. They have been promised, and it is written, that they have priority when they meet the EK standards to upgrade.
At a time when EK management reputation is at an all time low they go ahead and ignore their own regulations, that they don't think twice about enforcing on us, and hire DECs with no direct aircraft or route experience.
Ironically it puts pressure on F/Os to carry them around an unfamiliar route network, postpones any opportunity for the F/Os to get their commands which penalises them significantly financially and does nothing but reinforce the negative sentiment strongly felt towards the management and the airline.
Please, if we are to consider any direct entry personnel lets look at replacements for our pathetic management.
No one has yet explained WHY we need them??? Is it for safety? If so we can all come up with statistics one way or another to prove that DECs are just as likely to have (and have had) incidents/accidents. Is it to dilute the EK culture? If so a tacit admission that something rotten in the state of EK. What else? WHY??? If it is because their cheap then I guess that we'll get what we pay for... but even that argument is full of holes.
Ultimately I suppose it is because they, or that hobbit TCAS, can but what utter low level underhand management we are witnessing.
We have qualified pilots, many with previous command experience, within our own ranks. They have 3-5 years experience of EK ops and route structure. They have been promised, and it is written, that they have priority when they meet the EK standards to upgrade.
At a time when EK management reputation is at an all time low they go ahead and ignore their own regulations, that they don't think twice about enforcing on us, and hire DECs with no direct aircraft or route experience.
Ironically it puts pressure on F/Os to carry them around an unfamiliar route network, postpones any opportunity for the F/Os to get their commands which penalises them significantly financially and does nothing but reinforce the negative sentiment strongly felt towards the management and the airline.
Please, if we are to consider any direct entry personnel lets look at replacements for our pathetic management.
Last edited by Marooned; 27th Apr 2009 at 09:31.
Marooned et al,
I'm not for a moment going to try and defend a lot of what has happened at EK recently. I'm not going to let my full feelings out as too many people know who I am!
But how about we comment on what has actually happened- We are near the bottom of page two about something which just happens not to be true!
The last Captain to join did so in November last year. There has not been any DECs since. There are some A310 and A330/340 Captains training on the Boeing at the moment and someone has jumped to the conclustion that they are DECs.
Let's identify real problems, air them and try and suggest real solutions, not engage in hysteria about the first inacurate rumour that fits our pre-concieved notions.
I'm not for a moment going to try and defend a lot of what has happened at EK recently. I'm not going to let my full feelings out as too many people know who I am!
But how about we comment on what has actually happened- We are near the bottom of page two about something which just happens not to be true!
The last Captain to join did so in November last year. There has not been any DECs since. There are some A310 and A330/340 Captains training on the Boeing at the moment and someone has jumped to the conclustion that they are DECs.
Let's identify real problems, air them and try and suggest real solutions, not engage in hysteria about the first inacurate rumour that fits our pre-concieved notions.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizo: Agreed.
The problem however is that there is rumor and credible rumor.
DECs have been employed and TCAS has openly stated that, despite the FOM and the EK recruiting spin, that he reserves the personal right to hire DECs.
In our current state of heightened anxiety here it is little wonder that such rumors get credence and get a bite or two.
I hope it is not true, but so many things are happening here at the moment that are unbelievable so why not this?
The problem however is that there is rumor and credible rumor.
DECs have been employed and TCAS has openly stated that, despite the FOM and the EK recruiting spin, that he reserves the personal right to hire DECs.
In our current state of heightened anxiety here it is little wonder that such rumors get credence and get a bite or two.
I hope it is not true, but so many things are happening here at the moment that are unbelievable so why not this?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ozmate,
I'm not really sure what you are getting at wrt my post...... Your response bares little or no relevance to what I stated (that about 15% of capts are DEC's as opposed to what a previous poster stated that just about ALL are DEC's). Have a little re-read old chum
For the record, I am neither pro, nor anti company, however, I am anti bullsh1t!!!!!!
Hope this helps?
I'm not really sure what you are getting at wrt my post...... Your response bares little or no relevance to what I stated (that about 15% of capts are DEC's as opposed to what a previous poster stated that just about ALL are DEC's). Have a little re-read old chum
For the record, I am neither pro, nor anti company, however, I am anti bullsh1t!!!!!!
Hope this helps?
Quite Dooner, we can talk about this one until we all go blue in the face. I know it affected me and I have my viewpoint, but so does everyone, for and against.
I think we shall call it a day on this thread, it ain't going nowhere.
Closed
EGGW
I think we shall call it a day on this thread, it ain't going nowhere.
Closed
EGGW
