Fly Dubai - The missing info.

[RMC]

I guess the answer to these questions is out there somewhere but in the threads I have read there are either contradictions or the info just doesn't seem to be readily available.

If anyone knows answers to the following I would greatly appreciate the input.

(i) - Are school fees paid in full (some only pay a percentage)?

(ii) - Are school fees also paid beyond secondary education (16 years onwards)?

(iii) - Is there a one off entry fee for schools....if so do Fly Dubai pay this (again some don't)?

(iv) - Is the leave 42 days...and does this include bank (public) holidays?

(v) - Is there a leaving bonus....if so what is it? I understood this was a legal requirement in some parts of the Middle East?

(vi) - Has anyone been able to establish if there is any staff travel with Emirates?

(vii) - If DXB is going to be used for the next five years does anyone know for sure if car parking cost will be paid? Like most things in Dubai it is not cheap!

(viii) What would be the approximate rental charge for a four bed villa like those used by EK in Silicon?

(ix) How much would it cost for air con and water for a four bed villa?

(x) How close to DXB do you have to be for Fly Dubai....I heard all the EK accomodation is within half an hour for their "reserve months"?

Any help with any of the above would significantly help my understanding of what I could actually save.

Mucho grassyass

Capt Concrete

[long-gonner]

Hi RMC, Ill try to answer best as I can.

1,2,3. From the info packet:
Children's Educational Support - Applicable for a maximum of three children aged between 4 - 18 years, in full-time education. For primary schooling, you shall receive a reimbursement up to the value of AED 30,000 per annum. Secondary schooling is reimbursable up to the value of AED 45,000 per annum.

From the briefing we received, that value was per child and was meant to cover core tuition fees, registration costs, and official school transportation. I didn't take many notes on that subject as I don't have any kids.

4. 42 days of leave. according to the paper work it does include public holidays. Can't be taken until after six months of service, which is the end of the probation period.

5. UAE law demands that you be paid a leaving bonus. 21 days final basic pay per year of service for each of the first five years of service and 30 days final basic pay per year of service thereafter.

6. No word yet on the travel bene's. In the briefing it was mentioned that there would at least be some kind of ID90/zed agreement with EK and EY.

7. Parking at any airport flydubai uses as a crew base will be paid for by the company, and not taken out of the transportation allowance.

8 and 9. Maybe someone else can answer that for you as I'm not sure? All I can say is that the housing allowance most likely wouldn't cover the cost of a villa that size. Maybe you could try looking at some of the property rental websites for Dubai? www.gulfnews.com or www.bhomes.com

10. It was never mentioned how close you had to live to the airport. As the trips will all be day trips, you probably wouldn't want more than an hours drive everyday from the airport.......

Hope this helps!

[Instant Hooligan]

10. EK accom is not with 30 mins of the airport especially in rush hour traffic. 30 mins is the time (min) to be downstairs getting in the crew transport to go to airport if called out from reserve.
Hope that helps.

[Wizofoz]

(viii) What would be the approximate rental charge for a four bed villa like those used by EK in Silicon?

I would guesstimate about 230 000/yr down from well over 300 a year ago, and still falling.

(ix) How much would it cost for air con and water for a four bed villa?

3-5000/mth depending on usage.

[RMC]

Thanks for the replies people.

I would like to run my understanding past you to see if these calcs are there or thereabouts for a family of 2.0 kids moving from UK for a five year stint in the sun.

Monthly salary - 57,000 AED (assuming 80 hours / month)
Less

Rent for nice 4 bed villa -20,000 AED (assume rental prices continue downward)

Utilities 4.000 AED

33,000 AED / month for non housing expenses. X 60 months = 1,980,000 AED


I have assumed that furniture moving and UK visit costs are balanced by the leaving bonus ie....
37,000 to get furniture shipped there and back (or buy in Dubai).
15,000 / year travel back to UK (assuming no staff travel) X 5 = 50,000 AED
Plus
A leaving bonus of 17,260 for each year X 5 = 86,300 AED

SO I would be paid 1,980,000 for five years work (£370,000) plus have paid off five years on my UK home mortgage (if rent cover mortgage),

In the UK I would earn £240,000.

IF (and I know it is a big if) I could live on the same in Dubai as in the UK I would be in £130,000 better off when I came back.

Hit me with all the flaws you can as this is an important decision for us all.

[Old King Coal]

RMC - Are the figures you quote net or gross of UK Income Tax & NI?


Btw, the relocation allowances (on joining) is 3,500 DHS (that's about £650 GBP)

My move of 130 cuft (plus 60 kg of suitcases sent aircraft... some of the wife's clothes, shoes, handbags, etc) from Uk to DXB cost me £1400 GBP.... and there was very little furniture in that (as I sold most of it on eBay).

[shroom]

Don't know if all of you are in the area, or have applied, or already have the job, but just some info: the papers here have reported that Fly Dubai says they received about 8,000 applications for pilot jobs and have hired about 80. They may have meant 80 captains, or 80 total crew. I'm not sure. Just a heads up that it's a tough market out there, as we all know. Good luck to everyone wishing to fly in the UAE.

[145qrh]

Your numbers are a "bit" rosey..

Try your numbers again, 7dhs/pound.

Try 80 hrs/month for 10 months of the year and zero for 2 month to cover leave and sickness.

Not forgetting there is always a lot of training in a new company so first year will probably be a lot less.

Travel , I spend more than that with EK staff travel.

Try to include at least 1 or 2 months a year when you rental property will be empty, that should cover wear and tear and of coarse periods when it will be empty.

The FDubai school allowance is poor, event the cheapest primary(Jess) is 34,000/year ,plus any school transport which can be pretty expensive.

Just had a look at Repton School, 45,000 for early primary, rising to 55,000 for later years.

Have a look at Gulf News for schooling, the best schools can raise by this 15% yr, those considered "unsatisfactory" can raise by 7% year . Picture for secondary is same . Even with the downturn the best schools are difficult to get into.

Your figures are those of one who has made their decision , regardless of the facts, and are trying to convince either yourself or the missus

[RMC]

Thanks for the reality check guys...can't beat a bit of local knowledge.

145 QRH - I think you were with BRAL once upon a time.It appears my figures may be a bit rosey (although the UK pound won't be making much headway from its current position for a few years yet). I will rework after lunch.

You are incorrect to assume I have made the decision...I have several iorns in the fire and am doing some bottom trawlling to get the full story before commiting time and energy to assessments.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

other things to consider

FlyDubai CEO G.A.G. the COO K.G. and the chief pilot D.R. are three cool campers with hearts and brains in the right place.

[RMC]

Here is issue two of the calcs with pearls of wisdom incorporated.

This my revised understanding to run past you to see if these calcs are there or thereabouts for a family of 2.0 kids moving from UK for a five year stint in the sun.

Monthly salary - 55,000 AED (assuming 70 ish hours / month)
Less

Rent for nice 4 bed villa -20,000 AED (assume rental prices continue downward)

Utilities 4.000 AED

Schooling top up 1,000 AED

UK Travel top up 500 AED (personal choice this one)

29,500 AED / month for non housing expenses. X 60 months = 1,770,000 AED


I have assumed that furniture moving and UK visit costs are more or less balanced by the leaving bonus ie....
23,000 to get furniture shipped there and back (and/or buy in Dubai).
15,000 / year travel back to UK (twice) (assuming no staff travel) X 5 = 75,000 AED
Plus
A leaving bonus of 17,260 for each year X 5 = 86,300 AED

SO I would be paid 1,770,000 AED for five years work (£295,000). mortgage) - Give the mess the UK is in...and the extended recession I think 6 AED to the pound works over an average of five years.

Less - Voids / mgt fees and a top end rental market depression in the UK I will lose £500 (£30,000) a month on my own house (not a chance of selling it).

£265,000


In the UK I would earn £240,000.


IF (and I know it is a big if) I could live on the same in Dubai as in the UK I would be in £25,000 better off when I came back.

Standing by for feedback to knock out issue three.

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

RMC,

I still think you are a little low on a few things.

Schooling. Not sure where you are looking at, but most schooling ranges between 34 - 54K, depending on where you are at. A lot of the averages seem to fall between 39 and 44. Buses right now will run about 7500 dhms and don't forget about uniform fees. There are a lot of little "hidden" fees (for lack of a better term) that seem to pop up all the time. I might suggest planning on 2000/month for schooling, unless you already know where you are going (that's just to be realistic, if you find better, good for you).

Utilities. The 4000 might be accurate closer to the winter months, but with two kids, I'd think it would be a little higher in the summer months. A friend of mine with a three bedroom villa in Mirdiff (that just left) was paying around 6500 month during the summer with two young kids.

Housing. I"m in accommodation, so I'll fully admit that I don't have the "precise pulse" of the rental market, but your term of "nice" and 4 bedroom for 20,000 might be a little low. Who knows, you might be able to find that, but it just seems low with the guys I talk with that have their own villas.

Travel. Depending on how much you go home. Don't take this the wrong way, but I doubt if EK allows ZED fares outside of Y class on their aircraft. They are pretty strict with their own staff on that. That may not be that big of a deal for you, but I know it is for some.

The thing to remember here too, is that with two kids, nothing is really that cheap as far as entertainment. We've got a house full of the little whipper snappers and we think we are doing well entertaining the little ones without spending much, but even to go to most parks costs something out of pocket here. We are fairly frugal when we go out with the kids, but my kids seem to be more popular than me, so they are always going places with their friends, birthday parties, etc. Nothing here is free. We make up a lot of our own stuff to do, but if you get into the main stream stuff, there is always something here and there that you look down and say to yourself "How the hell did that just cost me $500dms?" It's inevitable in this place.

It can be a good life style as long as you don't get caught up in "Keeping up with the Jones." Another thing you might factor in is a maid. If your wife starts making friends (and she'll have to to be happy), she will have friends with maids or a maid service. You can spend anywhere from 400 dms month with a maid service up to 1300 month with a full time maid, depending on what you want.

I can't remember if you factored in your vehicle or not, but you can factor in around 5000/year for insurance. Not sure what your health care will be like at flydubai either. I don't know if it's like EK's or not.

Just some other numbers to throw at you. Take it with a grain of salt as it's just mine experience. But, like I said, it seems that there is always something that isn't factored in and a lot of little things here that can add up quickly.

Good luck.

[Old King Coal]

To get your children into school at (say) 'JESS', consider the following (Per Child):

• DHS.300 - Resigistration (one payment, non-refundable)
• DHS.500 - Entrance Fee (one payment, non refundable)

Annual fees are:

• DHS. 25,035 - FOUNDATION 1
• DHS. 31,380 - FOUNDATION 2, KS 1 & KS 2
• DHS. 53,865 - SECONDARY (at Arabian Ranches)

Nb. The annual fees can be split into 3 equal parts and paid (in advance) of each of the 3 school terms.

Prior to starting at this school, each child place will need to be secured by payment of the:

Personal Debenture

All children who are offered a place and who do not have access to a corporate debenture will be required to confirm their acceptance by purchasing a personal debenture within a specified deadline, normally within 1 month of the offer. Personal debentures are not payable until a place is offered and give no priority on the waiting list.

Although the constitution states that personal debentures are repayable in the year 2076 at Jumeirah or 20 years from the date of issue at Arabian Ranches, the practice at present is to repay the Debenture once the child has left Jumeirah English Speaking School and then re-issue it to the parent(s) of any eligible child entering the school. A personal debenture would also be refunded if a previously accepted offer is later declined.

Personal Debenture costs (per child) are:

• DHS.10,000 (at Jumeirah);
• DHS.20,000 (at Arabian Ranches)

FlyDubai's payment of the 'Education Support Allowance' (for up to three dependant children, who are attending full-time education at either a primary or secondary school, who are between 4 and 18 years of age) is calculated on a pro rata basis from the month of joining and for which one can claim upto:

• DHS.30,000 per child per academic year at the primary level of education;
• DHS 45,000 per child per academic year at the secondary level of education.

FlyDubai do not cover the cost of funding 'Personal Debentures'.

[RMC]

Here is issue THREE of the calcs with pearls of wisdom incorporated.

This my revised understanding to run past you to see if these calcs are there or thereabouts for a family of 2.0 kids moving from UK for a five year stint in the sun.

Monthly salary - 55,000 AED (assuming 70 ish hours / month)
Less

Rent for nice 4 bed villa -21,000 AED (assume rental prices continue downward)

Utilities 5,500 AED

Schooling top up 1,200 AED (including one off reg fees,enterance fees,buses,uniform allowance and interest on debenture loan). This is on top of the Fly Dubai 45,000 / year secondary school allowance.

UK Travel top up 500 AED (personal choice this one)

26,800 AED / month for non housing expenses. X 60 months = 1,608,000 AED


I have assumed that furniture moving and UK visit costs are more or less balanced by the leaving bonus ie....
23,000 to get furniture shipped there and back (and/or buy in Dubai).
15,000 / year travel back to UK (twice) (assuming no staff travel) X 5 = 75,000 AED
Plus
A leaving bonus of 17,260 for each year X 5 = 86,300 AED

SO I would be paid 1,608,000 AED for five years work (£268,000 ). mortgage) - Give the mess the UK is in...and the extended recession I think 6 AED to the pound works over an average of five years.

Less - Voids / mgt fees and a top end rental market depression in the UK I will lose £500 (£30,000/year) a month on my own house (not a chance of selling it).

£238,000

In the UK I would earn £240,000.


IF (and I know it is a big if) I could live on the same in Dubai as in the UK I would have lost £2,000 at the end of five years :-(

Standing by for any fine further feedback to knock out issue four .

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Quick Question. Is Flydubai schooling allowance 100% up to 45 or is it more like EK, 100% up to certain amount and then 90% up to 45? Could make a difference.

Otherwise, fairly close I think.

[StressFree]

The other things to consider is that these assumptions are based on a 5 year period. Two thoughts on this:

a) Will FlyDubai last 5 years (right now thats a BIG question), if it went out of business you've lost your sponsor and must either get another one or leave the country within a month - this can be VERY disruptive if you've got kids in schools etc. Just look at how many people have left/been forced out recently....

b) Are you 100% sure that you and the family will last 5 years? Dubai isn't the dream that many people think it is, have a look at all the posts about the place, all that glitters isn't gold.

Don't want to sound negative but make sure you know what you're getting into.

Best of luck, hope it all works out

[Artisan]

Hi RMC,

I'm assuming that you earn a gross salary in the UK of GBP 80K and that you pay tax at the rate of 40%, leaving you with GBP 48K net. This equates to GBP 240K over 5 years. From this GBP 240K, you would have to subtract your normal UK living costs to find out what you would save in the UK over 5 years.
If you only spent half of what you earn, you would be left with GBP 120K.

At FlyDubai you would earn AED 660K per annum net of tax. This equates to AED 3,300,000 over 5 years.(GBP 550K). You have assumed a spend of AED 26,800 per month on living costs. At the end of 5 years you would save AED 1,608,000(GBP 268K).

Your house in the UK and the mortgage are irrelevant because you will have these costs regardless of where you live (assuming you don't sell it). You should really factor in the UK rent as additional Dubai income, because you would not collect this rent if you were living in the UK.

By my calculations, you are more than GBP 148K better off after 5 years in the desert. That is assuming all goes well with FlyDubai.

[RMC]

Hi Artisan,

I have included the loss on my UK property as this cost would not be incurred if I stayed here. That said though you are correct in that I have not counted like with like. This is now corrected in that both the FD and UK figures are based on cash available after deduction of ALL housing expenses.

Here is issue FOUR of the calcs with latest pearl of wisdom incorporated.

This my revised understanding to run past you to see if these calcs are there or thereabouts for a family of 2.0 kids moving from UK for a five year stint in the sun.

Monthly salary - 55,000 AED (assuming 70 ish hours / month)
Less

Rent for nice 4 bed villa -21,000 AED (assume rental prices continue downward)

Utilities 5,500 AED

Schooling top up 1,200 AED (including one off reg fees,enterance fees,buses,uniform allowance and interest on debenture loan). This is on top of the Fly Dubai 45,000 / year secondary school allowance.

UK Travel top up 500 AED (personal choice this one)

Cost of key items / month 28,200 AED (1,692,000 AED over 5 years) leaving

26,800 AED / month for non housing expenses. X 60 months = 1,608,000 AED


I have assumed that furniture moving and UK visit costs are more or less balanced by the leaving bonus ie....
23,000 to get furniture shipped there and back (and/or buy in Dubai).
15,000 / year travel back to UK (twice) (assuming no staff travel) X 5 = 75,000 AED
Plus
A leaving bonus of 17,260 for each year X 5 = 86,300 AED

SO I would be paid 1,608,000 AED for five years work (£268,000 ). mortgage) - Give the mess the UK is in...and the extended recession I think 6 AED to the pound works over an average of five years.

Less - Voids / mgt fees and a top end rental market depression in the UK I will lose £500 (£30,000/year) a month on my own house (not a chance of selling it).

£238,000

In the UK I would earn £240,000 but to compare apples vs apples)
(less £1,200 mortgage / month
less £175 / month on utilities)
- £82,500 over five years) This is covered in the FD case by 210,000 AED for housing 5,500 utilities and £500 / month losss on monthly rental) .

£240,000 - £82,500 = £157,500


IF (and I know it is a big if) I could live on the same in Dubai as in the UK I would have made £238,000 - £157,500 (£80,500) at the end of five years.

Standing by for feedback to knock out the issue five itteration

[in FACT is]

Is This Company Really Excist

with respect to all the calculation above, my simple question is : "is FlyDubai really excist in Dubai?? when is the definite date they will start operation, again rumours and rumours only"

[Artisan]

Terminal 2 to become flydubai's new home

Dubai, U.A.E., 11th March 2009 - Dubai's first low cost airline, flydubai, has announced it will operate from a modernised and enhanced Terminal 2 at Dubai International Airport, when it begins its services later this year.
flydubai is currently on schedule to take off with the launch of its first routes mid-2009, operating a fleet of Boeing aircraft, each offering 189 economy class seats. Launch routes will be announced shortly and will include a range of destinations within four and a half hours flying time of Dubai.
In preparation for the launch of flydubai, the re-development of Terminal 2 is already well underway, with finishing touches being put to Phase 1 improvements this week. Dubai Airports has commissioned the work to be carried out by the contracting company widely acclaimed for its impressive work at Dubai International's Terminal 3. Terminal 2 already boasts extended, brighter departure and arrival areas, additional departure gates, a specially-designed children's play area and new and improved food and beverage outlets. Further enhancements are planned.
"As a low cost airline, flydubai will focus firmly on providing the very best value to our customers in a modern and convenient international environment" said the airline's CEO Ghaith Al Ghaith. "In Terminal 2 we have found an ideal home which will allow us to bring efficiencies to our operations and a range of facilities and benefits to our customers".
The one-level Terminal 2, with its central location on the north side of Dubai International Airport, will ultimately be served by a new transport infrastructure on Al Ittihad and Al Twar Roads, which will provide better approach routes and access. The interior design, coupled with the fact that its 1,000 car parking spaces are all at ground level just outside the front doors of the terminal, means that check-in and transiting times through the airport will be greatly streamlined.
flydubai aims to capitalise on the region's growing budget travel segment and serve the considerable expatriate population by giving people the opportunity to fly more often. "As a low cost airline, our business model is to provide the best value to our customers, in a simple and transparent way and with the utmost of safety - we look forward to serving the growing numbers of travellers in this region and to bringing people together more often," Mr. Al Ghaith concluded.
The airline's operations team is currently finalising routes, which are likely to include the Indian subcontinent, north and east Africa, southeast Europe and the Middle East.