Info about life in Dubai
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Info about life in Dubai
Hi
I'm currently working with an orange European lowco and am a bit curious about life in Dubai and perhaps Emirates in particular. I will be going on holiday to Dubai next week and will be there on the 6th and the 7th and I'm wondering if there's anyone who would be willing to meet over a coffee and share their thoughts about what life is like in the desert. The coffee will be on me of course and if you're interested just drop me a private message.
Best regards
I'm currently working with an orange European lowco and am a bit curious about life in Dubai and perhaps Emirates in particular. I will be going on holiday to Dubai next week and will be there on the 6th and the 7th and I'm wondering if there's anyone who would be willing to meet over a coffee and share their thoughts about what life is like in the desert. The coffee will be on me of course and if you're interested just drop me a private message.
Best regards
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Unfortunately I will be unable to meet up on the 6-7 as I will be doing my bit to ensure the company remains profitable. Sharing pain and so on. So I will attempt to give some information about Dubai.
Until recently Dubai was a ****hole that was growing very fast. Now it's a ****hole that people are leaving in droves as it financially implodes and its spectacular lack of any sort of fundamental worth is exposed.
Any more questions?
Until recently Dubai was a ****hole that was growing very fast. Now it's a ****hole that people are leaving in droves as it financially implodes and its spectacular lack of any sort of fundamental worth is exposed.
Any more questions?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Life in Dubai?
Bulldog, don't even think it........
Paul Simon sums it up:
"I don't know a soul who's not been battered,
I don't have a friend who feels at ease,
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered,
or driven to its knees......."
Good luck,
SM
Paul Simon sums it up:
"I don't know a soul who's not been battered,
I don't have a friend who feels at ease,
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered,
or driven to its knees......."
Good luck,
SM
Dubai
I miss the real world. I've lived and worked “overseas” for many years now – throughout Asia and the Middle East – and I've always loved the people and enjoyed the places. But this place, this part of the world formerly known as "The Arabian Desert" is truly a world apart.
Where you now live, you can do the things that humans are meant to do and are energised by. Go for a walk, or a bike ride, or even a leisurely drive. Row a boat. Throw a stick in a lake and share some moments of real enjoyment with a happy dog.
My God! A lake! What a concept. I have vague memories of clear shimmering water, shaded by tall leafy trees. Oh my God! Trees! I'd almost forgotten about them! Do you still have some? We don't. And we can't go for runs or bike rides. Or, in the summertime, even walk without taking a break every fifty steps to duck into an air conditioned ATM cubicle to cool down to a temperature closer to the normal human range before setting out again for another quick march to the next (man-made) oasis. So if your plan for your time off is to simply hop from your apartment into your car, then from your car into the mall, you’ll be fine.
I'm forming a theory that gives a historical explanation (for me, anyway) for the root difference between this culture and my own. In essence, in those parts of the world where nature provides aplenty, cultures succeeded by revering nature and the abundance – the life – it provided. The natural world was (is) an ally, a close friend, the giver of life. In the sands of Arabia nature was an enemy; in order to live society had to defeat it and even rule over it. Which explains why Dubai was and is being created not within its natural surroundings but by destroying them. Scrape the dunes away and build monuments where they stood. Take the sand from those dunes and dump it in the ocean -- billions of tons of it -- to create low, flat, barren, fake islands. Solely to erect more monuments, more concrete receptacles for consumers; more hotels, apartments, villas, and shopping malls. And pull all the trees down (what few there were) and pave everything. Then bestow names such as “The Greens”, “The Hills”, and “The Lakes” on these flat, dry, dirty brown neighbourhoods.
The main roads throughout Dubai are all what are called freeways or motorways in the rest of the world – minimum six lanes, many eight and several 12 or 14. Downtown, around town and through town. No concept (or even concern) about pedestrian movement. Very few overpasses or underpasses, and even fewer sidewalks. So even if the outside temperature were bearable one can't get to where one wants to go by bike or foot without putting oneself in real danger of being dragged for a few miles under a speeding red Ferrari, Hummer or Mercedes; then killed by the next one that zipped over you at 200kph. (Think ostentatious wealth and virtual exemption from traffic laws.) Combine that notion with the ultimate consumerism (some would say "greed" is a more apt word): A culture / society where the philosophy of life is to buy everything, build everything and do everything, bigger, faster, higher, and more expensive than the next guy. A place where a smile – even in response to one given - is as rare as a camel in Coventry.
When driving in the manner of this culture, to let someone merge into your lane, or pass you, is to be defeated in battle. To use a turn signal (other than as a deception tactic before turning the opposite direction) is an admission that you have no faith in Allah to protect you.
In summary, living in Dubai is like living in a 3D movie, playing on fast forward, of what the future will be like when we have destroyed all other natural life forms, and all the mountains and rivers and trees and lakes are gone. And the humans no longer care. And the air conditioning on the movie set is broken . . .
(Having said all the above, I'd be happy to enjoy a beer with someone visiting from the Real World. Feel free to PM.)
Grizz.
Where you now live, you can do the things that humans are meant to do and are energised by. Go for a walk, or a bike ride, or even a leisurely drive. Row a boat. Throw a stick in a lake and share some moments of real enjoyment with a happy dog.
My God! A lake! What a concept. I have vague memories of clear shimmering water, shaded by tall leafy trees. Oh my God! Trees! I'd almost forgotten about them! Do you still have some? We don't. And we can't go for runs or bike rides. Or, in the summertime, even walk without taking a break every fifty steps to duck into an air conditioned ATM cubicle to cool down to a temperature closer to the normal human range before setting out again for another quick march to the next (man-made) oasis. So if your plan for your time off is to simply hop from your apartment into your car, then from your car into the mall, you’ll be fine.
I'm forming a theory that gives a historical explanation (for me, anyway) for the root difference between this culture and my own. In essence, in those parts of the world where nature provides aplenty, cultures succeeded by revering nature and the abundance – the life – it provided. The natural world was (is) an ally, a close friend, the giver of life. In the sands of Arabia nature was an enemy; in order to live society had to defeat it and even rule over it. Which explains why Dubai was and is being created not within its natural surroundings but by destroying them. Scrape the dunes away and build monuments where they stood. Take the sand from those dunes and dump it in the ocean -- billions of tons of it -- to create low, flat, barren, fake islands. Solely to erect more monuments, more concrete receptacles for consumers; more hotels, apartments, villas, and shopping malls. And pull all the trees down (what few there were) and pave everything. Then bestow names such as “The Greens”, “The Hills”, and “The Lakes” on these flat, dry, dirty brown neighbourhoods.
The main roads throughout Dubai are all what are called freeways or motorways in the rest of the world – minimum six lanes, many eight and several 12 or 14. Downtown, around town and through town. No concept (or even concern) about pedestrian movement. Very few overpasses or underpasses, and even fewer sidewalks. So even if the outside temperature were bearable one can't get to where one wants to go by bike or foot without putting oneself in real danger of being dragged for a few miles under a speeding red Ferrari, Hummer or Mercedes; then killed by the next one that zipped over you at 200kph. (Think ostentatious wealth and virtual exemption from traffic laws.) Combine that notion with the ultimate consumerism (some would say "greed" is a more apt word): A culture / society where the philosophy of life is to buy everything, build everything and do everything, bigger, faster, higher, and more expensive than the next guy. A place where a smile – even in response to one given - is as rare as a camel in Coventry.
When driving in the manner of this culture, to let someone merge into your lane, or pass you, is to be defeated in battle. To use a turn signal (other than as a deception tactic before turning the opposite direction) is an admission that you have no faith in Allah to protect you.
In summary, living in Dubai is like living in a 3D movie, playing on fast forward, of what the future will be like when we have destroyed all other natural life forms, and all the mountains and rivers and trees and lakes are gone. And the humans no longer care. And the air conditioning on the movie set is broken . . .
(Having said all the above, I'd be happy to enjoy a beer with someone visiting from the Real World. Feel free to PM.)
Grizz.
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Could not agree more. Perfect analysis and well said. But you did forget to mention the "beaches". Anybody gone swimming in the Gulf lately off one of the beaches?
And we don't even need to go into the locals attitudes towards their "guests". You are scum under their finger nails. Need proof? Watch how they drive, see the way the legal system works for them. Yep, it's their country, but if you want to be a major player in the world, ways and attitudes just might have to change. Not in our lifetimes......
It has been said many times.....a third world country with a first world facade.
And if you say, just leave. The CV is updated and out there. My bucket just got filled. Haven't tried Kimshi (sp?) yet.
And we don't even need to go into the locals attitudes towards their "guests". You are scum under their finger nails. Need proof? Watch how they drive, see the way the legal system works for them. Yep, it's their country, but if you want to be a major player in the world, ways and attitudes just might have to change. Not in our lifetimes......
It has been said many times.....a third world country with a first world facade.
And if you say, just leave. The CV is updated and out there. My bucket just got filled. Haven't tried Kimshi (sp?) yet.
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Folks, bitch & moan all you like.... but rest assured that there's very little waiting for you should you presently decide return from whence you came.
E.g. Wanna guess what's being said these days to those Captain's, F/O's & crews from Colombus, Excel, EOS, Frontier, SilverJet, Futura, MAXjet, Oasis, Skybus and Zoom, and many many others... how about?
"BigMac and fries please!"
E.g. Wanna guess what's being said these days to those Captain's, F/O's & crews from Colombus, Excel, EOS, Frontier, SilverJet, Futura, MAXjet, Oasis, Skybus and Zoom, and many many others... how about?
"BigMac and fries please!"
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It won't happen, but imagine the quality of pilots who would flock to EK if they offered a CX local-basing scheme (i.e., London, Paris, Frankfurt, New York, LA, SYD, Toronto, HKG, etc.). EK would draw some of the best pilots in the world and retain them as well... That would cut training expenses and probably lead to safer operations.
But no - it won't happen. They want to control everything at all times. Too bad the EK management is sooooooo shortsighted - CX should at least be lauded for being progressive on the basing front.
But no - it won't happen. They want to control everything at all times. Too bad the EK management is sooooooo shortsighted - CX should at least be lauded for being progressive on the basing front.
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Old King Cole,
You are exactly right. No arguing there. But LR3 is also spot on. Everyone here is probably damn glad they have employment in their chosen field. But there are a few other major airlines hiring and once the world economy turns positive and others start hiring the perfumed princes will reap what they have sowed. And that just doesn't include pilots. Ask your engineer the next time you both have a few minutes to chat.
All that said above it still does not change the fact this place is full of hypocrisy and discrimination seen on a daily basis. And their legal system backs it up. Just ask the family and friends of the British woman who was run over not once but twice (and killed) by a local, because she and her friends had the intrepidity to make him wait whist they paid their taxi. Anyone want to guess what his sentence was? How can EK mitigate that type of culture. We aren't so naive as to believe that discrimination isn't alive and well in so called first world countries, but there are usually watchdog groups, the press etc. that attempts to keep it in check. How about the new censorship rules for newspapers here? Watchdog groups? How's that union thing going here?
Dubai had the potential to be an oasis and holiday destination for many. But if you want to see fancy lit up buildings, go to Las Vegas. Want to see some incredible culture, go to Paris. Want visit (and swim) some incredible beaches, check out Phuket and others. What I am saying is, they have truly shagged the proverbial golden goose. They have to give people a reason to come here. As the economy falters, the true stripes of this joint show. And to think, I used really like this place.
But I am now going to enjoy the true meaning and culture of Dubai-going to the mall.
You are exactly right. No arguing there. But LR3 is also spot on. Everyone here is probably damn glad they have employment in their chosen field. But there are a few other major airlines hiring and once the world economy turns positive and others start hiring the perfumed princes will reap what they have sowed. And that just doesn't include pilots. Ask your engineer the next time you both have a few minutes to chat.
All that said above it still does not change the fact this place is full of hypocrisy and discrimination seen on a daily basis. And their legal system backs it up. Just ask the family and friends of the British woman who was run over not once but twice (and killed) by a local, because she and her friends had the intrepidity to make him wait whist they paid their taxi. Anyone want to guess what his sentence was? How can EK mitigate that type of culture. We aren't so naive as to believe that discrimination isn't alive and well in so called first world countries, but there are usually watchdog groups, the press etc. that attempts to keep it in check. How about the new censorship rules for newspapers here? Watchdog groups? How's that union thing going here?
Dubai had the potential to be an oasis and holiday destination for many. But if you want to see fancy lit up buildings, go to Las Vegas. Want to see some incredible culture, go to Paris. Want visit (and swim) some incredible beaches, check out Phuket and others. What I am saying is, they have truly shagged the proverbial golden goose. They have to give people a reason to come here. As the economy falters, the true stripes of this joint show. And to think, I used really like this place.
But I am now going to enjoy the true meaning and culture of Dubai-going to the mall.
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Just because you should be happy to have a job in ones chosen field, doesnt mean it should give management free hands to change T&Cs as they like.
What is their share in the PAIN. If they had any they would use that as a marketing tool. So I expect we take the pain they dispense.
What is their share in the PAIN. If they had any they would use that as a marketing tool. So I expect we take the pain they dispense.
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The Real World!
I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have escaped Dubai. I have been back in the "real world" for six weeks and can't wipe the smile off my face! It is fantastic to be home!
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90% of pilots would leave this place tomorrow if there were other viable jobs available.
Dubai is a horrible place from a normal human being's perspective.
Considering Dubai is a disgusting place and the fact that our T&C's have now dipped below the tolerable, you have to be in a desparate situation to be applying to EK.
Dubai is a horrible place from a normal human being's perspective.
Considering Dubai is a disgusting place and the fact that our T&C's have now dipped below the tolerable, you have to be in a desparate situation to be applying to EK.
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While you may feel fortunate to not have been one of the mis-fortunate pilots of the aforementioned dead airlines, the reality is most of those pilots have found jobs by now and moved on. A good many were retired from the major airline job anyway so the SilverJet/ Maxjet gig was just beer money anyway. But you're still stuck in Dubai.
I know so many pilots who left US major pilot jobs for the lure of the slick EK recruiting campaign. I tried to talk them out of it... nothing doing. Now, even though some US carriers are hurting, many thousands of pilots remain employed and they only work 1/2 the month back home... if that even. No US carrier has taken pay cuts from this downturn... yet.
Sure you make a little more coin upfront by joining EK, but in the long run, a job in the West, BY FAR, outweighs anything the M.E. has to offer... especially once you get over your 'bout of SJS.
Sorry if I've offended any by my comments. I'm mostly basing it on the stuff y'all write about DXB. I myself have lived all over the M.E., including Dubai (I've already done enough M.E. time for this career) but you guys give me the latest perspective since it's been nearly 5yrs since I lived there. Thanks for that.
Great read BTW, Griz. You should be a writer. Maybe you missed your calling.
I know so many pilots who left US major pilot jobs for the lure of the slick EK recruiting campaign. I tried to talk them out of it... nothing doing. Now, even though some US carriers are hurting, many thousands of pilots remain employed and they only work 1/2 the month back home... if that even. No US carrier has taken pay cuts from this downturn... yet.
Sure you make a little more coin upfront by joining EK, but in the long run, a job in the West, BY FAR, outweighs anything the M.E. has to offer... especially once you get over your 'bout of SJS.
Sorry if I've offended any by my comments. I'm mostly basing it on the stuff y'all write about DXB. I myself have lived all over the M.E., including Dubai (I've already done enough M.E. time for this career) but you guys give me the latest perspective since it's been nearly 5yrs since I lived there. Thanks for that.
Great read BTW, Griz. You should be a writer. Maybe you missed your calling.
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Dubai is a city in the middle of the desert - so if you are partial to tall leafy trees and walks by the river then you are going to be disappointed. If you are aircrew and still come here expecting that then it shows somewhat poor navigation skills.
Dubai and EK are not like airlines in Europe or the US - if you expect them to be then perhaps you are the sort of person that really shouldn't travel overseas.
The worst thing about Dubai is the whinging expats
Dubai and EK are not like airlines in Europe or the US - if you expect them to be then perhaps you are the sort of person that really shouldn't travel overseas.
The worst thing about Dubai is the whinging expats
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Besides hearing the same old negative comments each thread about how bad life can suck in Dubai, does anyone do anything on their free time outdoors (when temps permit 
)?
Put a paddle tire on your dirt bike and head to the dunes.
Camp in the mountains.
Scuba Dive.
Fish.
Water Ski/wakeboard
Kite board.
Play golf.
etc.
I like being active on free time and am curious if anyone has some insight into any of these activities or do they do any of them. I live with the big leafy green trees and have rivers and mountains to look at. I spend free time enjoying them by getting out and seeing what they have to offer for recreation. Just trying to make the best of any situation.
)? Put a paddle tire on your dirt bike and head to the dunes.
Camp in the mountains.
Scuba Dive.
Fish.
Water Ski/wakeboard
Kite board.
Play golf.
etc.
I like being active on free time and am curious if anyone has some insight into any of these activities or do they do any of them. I live with the big leafy green trees and have rivers and mountains to look at. I spend free time enjoying them by getting out and seeing what they have to offer for recreation. Just trying to make the best of any situation.