20' cont. fuel in and out of UAE airports
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
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Pool,
besides of the joke I made in the previous post, I honestly believe that you are not getting the things right. The final reserve is the 30 minutes that the GCAA talk about. This 30 minutes appears in the circular after your divertion, not before, as it does in the FOM. "Delay" is simply because one would land as soon as he could after the divertion; so if he doesn't (another ACFT in Emergency, time required to remove workers from longest RWY if desired...), he still have the 30 minutes to play with.
Don't take me bad, but if you leave cargo behind just to put 3 ton of EXTRA FUEL in order to comply with what your are calling as "30 minutes mandatory contingency fuel +Final Reserve"; you will be called to the office.
If you have a good reason (WX, route, alternate,...) by all means take the fuel and leave the cargo, but your interpretation is not correct and may put you in trouble.
I won't make any further comment. This one was just to be sure to myself that I tried to help you.
Pitoss
besides of the joke I made in the previous post, I honestly believe that you are not getting the things right. The final reserve is the 30 minutes that the GCAA talk about. This 30 minutes appears in the circular after your divertion, not before, as it does in the FOM. "Delay" is simply because one would land as soon as he could after the divertion; so if he doesn't (another ACFT in Emergency, time required to remove workers from longest RWY if desired...), he still have the 30 minutes to play with.
Don't take me bad, but if you leave cargo behind just to put 3 ton of EXTRA FUEL in order to comply with what your are calling as "30 minutes mandatory contingency fuel +Final Reserve"; you will be called to the office.
If you have a good reason (WX, route, alternate,...) by all means take the fuel and leave the cargo, but your interpretation is not correct and may put you in trouble.
I won't make any further comment. This one was just to be sure to myself that I tried to help you.
Pitoss
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Fuel 101
Wiley said:
If I gave you a lecture on Fuel 101 ,Wiley, it is because you need it... But you DO seem like a slow learner. 
As for the 30 minutes, I agree with the general consensus that this is our Final Reserve Fuel.
For the 20 minutes holding fuel, this is most of the times covered by comitting to Dubai if the weather is good.
MR8
Thank you for the Fuel Burn 101 lesson, MR8.
As for the 30 minutes, I agree with the general consensus that this is our Final Reserve Fuel.
For the 20 minutes holding fuel, this is most of the times covered by comitting to Dubai if the weather is good.
MR8
Join Date: Aug 2003
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The advisory is poorly worded and open to interpretation. Personally I don't believe the intent was for you to carry thirty minutes holding on top of every thing else. Many major international airlines do not carry an alternate and I tend to think this is aimed more at them.
Practically speaking its just not necessary and I highly doubt you could create a legal case from the wording.
EK has a good conservative fuel policy and, although they strongly encourage good economy no-one is ever punished for using their best judgement.
Try to balance your interpretation with a little reality - all of us in the left seat have to admit we are paid more to operate with some regard to commercial considerations. No-one is going to give you extra points for being a pain in the arse!
Practically speaking its just not necessary and I highly doubt you could create a legal case from the wording.
EK has a good conservative fuel policy and, although they strongly encourage good economy no-one is ever punished for using their best judgement.
Try to balance your interpretation with a little reality - all of us in the left seat have to admit we are paid more to operate with some regard to commercial considerations. No-one is going to give you extra points for being a pain in the arse!
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A really enlightening thread to read. It seems there are as many opinions on what constitutes minimum fuel in Emirtates as there are pilots in the company.
MR8, your responses were particularly interesting. Your profile says you're an FO. Is that with Emirates or on your MS Flight Sim? A regular contributor asks what I at least would consider to be a reasonable question. You (apparently?) misunderstand what he says and accuse him of being a slow learner in need of further training because he asks if a manoeuvre that uses up more than 50% of your contingincy fuel for that particular sector has been factored into the flight plan. (You yourself say it would cost approx 600kgs/5 minutes when the contingency fuel for that sector, from my experience, is usually 800 to 900kgs, or 7 to 8 minutes.)
So have I got this right? You're quite happy to depart knowing that you'll definitely burn most of your contingency fuel immediately after takeoff and someone who suggests that that may not be a good idea needs further training?
I've re-read the first post mentioning this and I don't read it as saying that the track west costs an extra 4000 kgs, as you and others seem to think it did. Your posts remind me of a printout a friend used to have on is fridge: "Notice to teenagers: leave home now - while you still know the answers to everything."
MR8, your responses were particularly interesting. Your profile says you're an FO. Is that with Emirates or on your MS Flight Sim? A regular contributor asks what I at least would consider to be a reasonable question. You (apparently?) misunderstand what he says and accuse him of being a slow learner in need of further training because he asks if a manoeuvre that uses up more than 50% of your contingincy fuel for that particular sector has been factored into the flight plan. (You yourself say it would cost approx 600kgs/5 minutes when the contingency fuel for that sector, from my experience, is usually 800 to 900kgs, or 7 to 8 minutes.)
So have I got this right? You're quite happy to depart knowing that you'll definitely burn most of your contingency fuel immediately after takeoff and someone who suggests that that may not be a good idea needs further training?
I've re-read the first post mentioning this and I don't read it as saying that the track west costs an extra 4000 kgs, as you and others seem to think it did. Your posts remind me of a printout a friend used to have on is fridge: "Notice to teenagers: leave home now - while you still know the answers to everything."
