EK Training C4U Failure…why?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Global
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK Training C4U Failure…why?
I was hoping some of the EK guys could give a bit of insight into why this program appears to have stalled if not failed outright.
This is being bandied about as a solution to one of our problems but we see some issues and wondered what your issues were.
One of my mates in Berlin was instructing at C4U and bailed when they offered him a kaka deal and I know one of the guys EK sent there however since he has gone to DXB I lost his email and have lost comms.
Any insight would be good and maybe we can avoid our own management implemented disaster.
This is being bandied about as a solution to one of our problems but we see some issues and wondered what your issues were.
One of my mates in Berlin was instructing at C4U and bailed when they offered him a kaka deal and I know one of the guys EK sent there however since he has gone to DXB I lost his email and have lost comms.
Any insight would be good and maybe we can avoid our own management implemented disaster.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Raincoast
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C4U wasn't EKs idea, it was the GCAA's idea to try and keep some sort of third party involved in EK trainin'. C4U was a silly idea to start with. EK is large enough and mature enough (least in some respects) to have it's own in-house training fer trainers. C4U isn't needed, plus they what they offered was third rate instruction anyway.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was also a sign of the lack of investment and vision within EK management wrt the training department.
We could have put ourselves in the position of offering 3rd party training. 'Emirates Flight Training inc.' could have offered not only ourselves but other carriers training. We have the experience and facilities second to none. But instead of being proactive and enhancing the training department we did what we always do and wait until we have to react to a crisis and have to get a third party in to train our own trainers. We gifted large amounts of money to C4U, BA and Alteon to do our work for us, unbelievable if it wasn't EK. In the process standard were lowered and it cost much more than they expected.
Re C4U: from day one we were being trained by someone with NO actual flying experience on the 777 and an Easyjet freelancer with NO flight experience at all on the same. They used the initial courses to get themselves up to speed but with no EK line/route experience what did we really expect? They took the money EK was willing to throw at them and who can blame them?
We could have put ourselves in the position of offering 3rd party training. 'Emirates Flight Training inc.' could have offered not only ourselves but other carriers training. We have the experience and facilities second to none. But instead of being proactive and enhancing the training department we did what we always do and wait until we have to react to a crisis and have to get a third party in to train our own trainers. We gifted large amounts of money to C4U, BA and Alteon to do our work for us, unbelievable if it wasn't EK. In the process standard were lowered and it cost much more than they expected.
Re C4U: from day one we were being trained by someone with NO actual flying experience on the 777 and an Easyjet freelancer with NO flight experience at all on the same. They used the initial courses to get themselves up to speed but with no EK line/route experience what did we really expect? They took the money EK was willing to throw at them and who can blame them?
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: the ridge where the west commences
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The entire Alteon/C4U/outsourcing debacle has one and only one explanation.
The pay and conditions offered to EK potential instructors at that time was entirely unattractive. For that reason no one applied to be a trainer although there were manifestly gifted people available within the EK ranks.
Rather than increase the amounts offered to internal candidates, Emirates expended at least double the money to acquire substandard training elsewhere.
If you examine this solitary issue from every facet: hubris, parsimony, childish intransigence, envy, and petty self-aggrandizement - you will have the Emirates man-management philosophy in a nut-shell.
The pay and conditions offered to EK potential instructors at that time was entirely unattractive. For that reason no one applied to be a trainer although there were manifestly gifted people available within the EK ranks.
Rather than increase the amounts offered to internal candidates, Emirates expended at least double the money to acquire substandard training elsewhere.
If you examine this solitary issue from every facet: hubris, parsimony, childish intransigence, envy, and petty self-aggrandizement - you will have the Emirates man-management philosophy in a nut-shell.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kingof the slipstream......... actually 'Cockup 4 you' was the recently departed acting SVP-FT's idea (PP). He didn't have the sense to look after the trainers and had to find a solution fast
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C4U Instructors
It is not only that this outfit is using instructors who have minimal experience in training itself, they have a lot of real "sharp" guys who can train simultaneously on every aircraft type you can dream of. For instance on of the C4Y owner is examiner on the following types:
Hxxx, SXXXX
EXAMINER(A) D - XXX
befristet bis: XX.XX.200X
A318/319/320/321: TRE (A)
A330: SFE (A)
A340: SFE (A)
B737 300-900: TRE (A)
B777: SFE (A)
SE piston (land): CRE(A)
In C4Y are A330 Instructors who are at the same time B777 Instructors, all SFI qualified without real airplane experience on type. Hoe does this works in regard of training quality?
Hxxx, SXXXX
EXAMINER(A) D - XXX
befristet bis: XX.XX.200X
A318/319/320/321: TRE (A)
A330: SFE (A)
A340: SFE (A)
B737 300-900: TRE (A)
B777: SFE (A)
SE piston (land): CRE(A)
In C4Y are A330 Instructors who are at the same time B777 Instructors, all SFI qualified without real airplane experience on type. Hoe does this works in regard of training quality?
Last edited by Boeing707C; 20th Nov 2008 at 14:33. Reason: Clarification
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sensitive ground here, I would recommend some caution when making statements in an open forum that put into question the reputation of a third party. None the less bagging the product produced is another thing. The initial checks are not done by C4U, the company check and PPC were done by EK Examiners.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes thise checks are done by EK TRE but that if aftee lots of additional training. There was also a large increase in PPC failures of those coming from C4Y. All in all not that good.
