Are F/O's actually getting ahead financially at Emirates?
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Are F/O's actually getting ahead financially at Emirates?
I am a narrow-body F/O flying for a good company in the western world; if the bottom doesn't fall out I figure I am about 2 years from an upgrade. I have been researching Emirates as a possible alternative with the goal being to go to a tax free environment for 7-10 years and actually save some money versus paying over 40% in taxes here. Widebody flying appeals of course, but is not the main reason.
A bit concerned about the Dubai driving and the intense heat, but the wife and I are up for a bit of adventure, change of scenery etc. and are curious if new joiners are actually able to get ahead with the tax free salary and housing expenses package. I have read the Emirates threads and used the search; just looking for any updated info.
Thanks in advance. PM if you prefer.
-Med
A bit concerned about the Dubai driving and the intense heat, but the wife and I are up for a bit of adventure, change of scenery etc. and are curious if new joiners are actually able to get ahead with the tax free salary and housing expenses package. I have read the Emirates threads and used the search; just looking for any updated info.
Thanks in advance. PM if you prefer.
-Med
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Good question but there are just too many variables that vary from individual to individual.
How old you are, current financial situation, realistic long term plans etc
I will say however that 7-10 years is probably not a realistic tenure in any expat job and never really was. Most people will need something else after that and you're signed up to the contract game from then on.
Expect a command time of 5-6 years for new hires, yes an FO can save but given your time frame, $$$'s will only pick up for you about the time you're dialling the removal company.
Change your game plan or maybe your situation is different.
How old you are, current financial situation, realistic long term plans etc
I will say however that 7-10 years is probably not a realistic tenure in any expat job and never really was. Most people will need something else after that and you're signed up to the contract game from then on.
Expect a command time of 5-6 years for new hires, yes an FO can save but given your time frame, $$$'s will only pick up for you about the time you're dialling the removal company.
Change your game plan or maybe your situation is different.
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It is very hard to generalise because a lot depends on your personal circumstances. If you are single you can easily save. Same if you are married with no children and your wife is working. If you have children and a stay at home spouse it will be very difficult unless Pizza Hut is your idea of a good night out. Don't even think about moving out of the company accommodation.
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Driving is just nuts here plain and simple, but where we live and my kids go to school my wife can avoid SZR and some of the other krazy roads. That being said she some times feels house bound because of the assholes on the roads and the danger they pose.
I would want to know where my villa was going to be before coming and where my kids where going to be going to school before coming.
Money is not bad not great but after set up costs you can start to save.The amount you save varies because everyone converts the amount to their home $ . A pilot from the US may need less than a pilot from the UK in order to retire.
Guys that have taken the housing allowance bitch alot because they might feel the DXB inflation more that those that are still in company housing.
I would want to know where my villa was going to be before coming and where my kids where going to be going to school before coming.
Money is not bad not great but after set up costs you can start to save.The amount you save varies because everyone converts the amount to their home $ . A pilot from the US may need less than a pilot from the UK in order to retire.
Guys that have taken the housing allowance bitch alot because they might feel the DXB inflation more that those that are still in company housing.
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Two very good replies.
If it's just you and your wife your 6-10 year plan MIGHT work if you get a command in 3 years but I doubt that will happen. There are guys on the 777, and last year on the A330, who are being by past whilst EK recruits DEC's.
If you make the move plan on a 20 year duration in order to walk away with some money, it won't be much more than what you're going to get where you're presently employed. But who knows what's going to happen in the future around the world, now is not the time to be jumping ship if it's still floating, if it's going down that's a different game altogether.
Good luck
If it's just you and your wife your 6-10 year plan MIGHT work if you get a command in 3 years but I doubt that will happen. There are guys on the 777, and last year on the A330, who are being by past whilst EK recruits DEC's.
If you make the move plan on a 20 year duration in order to walk away with some money, it won't be much more than what you're going to get where you're presently employed. But who knows what's going to happen in the future around the world, now is not the time to be jumping ship if it's still floating, if it's going down that's a different game altogether.
Good luck
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Thanks for the replies guys.
At 36 with two little ones at home I think getting the upgrade here in a couple of years presents the best alternatives should things 'start sinking'!
At 36 with two little ones at home I think getting the upgrade here in a couple of years presents the best alternatives should things 'start sinking'!
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Meanwhile they still take DECs
While there are some ok guys most DEC's are not..... they do not follow EK SOP, don,t embrace the company culture and worse; often lack experience
Now what is so wonderful about these guys?
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medflyer
At 36 with two little ones you are in no danger of saving any money here in DXB. No way jose! Forget about it.
However, an even worse fly in the ointment is where you will be forced to live. Currently there are no suitable accomodations available for families and they are living in apartments, after being promised villas (iaw contractual entitlement).
The company tells you you'll get a place, then when you arrive they soft shoe a little and tell you it's an apartment for a coupla weeks, then by day two of your induction somebody drops the word that its a couple months and by day 3 in the company your lookin' a year!
There's no pool, no play area... it's a friggin' nightmare and everbody is lyin'.
A buddy of mine upgraded earlier this year and is still waitin' fer an offer of a villa iaw his contract - it's pathetic!
At 36 with two little ones you are in no danger of saving any money here in DXB. No way jose! Forget about it.
However, an even worse fly in the ointment is where you will be forced to live. Currently there are no suitable accomodations available for families and they are living in apartments, after being promised villas (iaw contractual entitlement).
The company tells you you'll get a place, then when you arrive they soft shoe a little and tell you it's an apartment for a coupla weeks, then by day two of your induction somebody drops the word that its a couple months and by day 3 in the company your lookin' a year!
There's no pool, no play area... it's a friggin' nightmare and everbody is lyin'.
A buddy of mine upgraded earlier this year and is still waitin' fer an offer of a villa iaw his contract - it's pathetic!
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Med,
You are correct and wise to be concerned about driving in Dubai. There are things you can do to mitigate that peril though. (big vehicle, defensive driving attitude, and less time on the roads)
As mentioned above, accomodation is an issue. If you get the short end of the stick, you have 2 options. Option 1 is accepting your fate, but since you have a wife and kids, that is not really an option. Option 2, is to be persistent and willing to quit if the company will not supply what they promised.
The tax free thing is definitely a huge bonus. This perk is continually being eroded though. For example Salik tolls on the roads , the VAT and the 'hinted at' capital gains tax.
The intense heat, at least for me, is not an issue. The weather here is great in my opinion. As an EK pilot, you would have access to some superb facilities. It is true though, that summer can be a bit of a 'camp-out' in your accomodation, but that is offset by the large number of lunatic drivers who vacate Dubai for milder climates. The lack of greenery and nature has been more of an adjustment for some people.
The most important question you have to ask is this...... ''Will my wife be happy in Dubai?'' Her happiness or unhappiness will affect you and your kids more than all the other factors combined.
If you are planning 10 years, I would wager a bet that you will be better off financially than if you stay where you are. (assuming you are not presently foreseeing your financial security) You certainly will not benefit in the first few years though. You also must consider that upgrades are already being slowed, so predicting the future is futile.
To sum up; you have a tough decision. If you were on the verge of redundancy, then I would say get your ass over here, pronto! If you are 2 years from upgrade and your company still seems viable in these troubled times, then it is a much tougher choice.
I believe happiness does not come from a bigger NET income, or a wide body jet. Job security can play a factor though. At least for now, job security at EK is a major bonus. I can guarantee you, YOUR happiness will be in direct correlation to the happiness of your family. Consider what is best for them and I think you will reach the right conclusion.
Best of luck!
You are correct and wise to be concerned about driving in Dubai. There are things you can do to mitigate that peril though. (big vehicle, defensive driving attitude, and less time on the roads)
As mentioned above, accomodation is an issue. If you get the short end of the stick, you have 2 options. Option 1 is accepting your fate, but since you have a wife and kids, that is not really an option. Option 2, is to be persistent and willing to quit if the company will not supply what they promised.
The tax free thing is definitely a huge bonus. This perk is continually being eroded though. For example Salik tolls on the roads , the VAT and the 'hinted at' capital gains tax.
The intense heat, at least for me, is not an issue. The weather here is great in my opinion. As an EK pilot, you would have access to some superb facilities. It is true though, that summer can be a bit of a 'camp-out' in your accomodation, but that is offset by the large number of lunatic drivers who vacate Dubai for milder climates. The lack of greenery and nature has been more of an adjustment for some people.
The most important question you have to ask is this...... ''Will my wife be happy in Dubai?'' Her happiness or unhappiness will affect you and your kids more than all the other factors combined.
If you are planning 10 years, I would wager a bet that you will be better off financially than if you stay where you are. (assuming you are not presently foreseeing your financial security) You certainly will not benefit in the first few years though. You also must consider that upgrades are already being slowed, so predicting the future is futile.
To sum up; you have a tough decision. If you were on the verge of redundancy, then I would say get your ass over here, pronto! If you are 2 years from upgrade and your company still seems viable in these troubled times, then it is a much tougher choice.
I believe happiness does not come from a bigger NET income, or a wide body jet. Job security can play a factor though. At least for now, job security at EK is a major bonus. I can guarantee you, YOUR happiness will be in direct correlation to the happiness of your family. Consider what is best for them and I think you will reach the right conclusion.
Best of luck!
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Have to agree with the above, anywhere in the gulf, if mum isn't happy then you wont be either
The biggest mistake I have seen here, is folks becoming so focused on "stash the cash", they forget to have a life..which always catches up with you in the end doesn't it..there's a happy medium there somewhere..
The biggest mistake I have seen here, is folks becoming so focused on "stash the cash", they forget to have a life..which always catches up with you in the end doesn't it..there's a happy medium there somewhere..
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The view from another perspective:
Dubai dreams fade away
Dubai, the city paved with gold, where many expatriate workers have made their golden dreams come true through long years of hard work, is fast losing its allure. On the contrary, it is fast becoming a nightmare. It has been an ever popular destination for the desperately jobless Asian workers, past and present, for over three decades. But today that dream is slowly being shattered like soap bubbles exposed to the hot desert air, as the authorities place heavier burdens on the working populace.
Trouble began when Dubai Municipality introduced a law that only one family could live in a villa. Thousands of workers share bed space in villas in order to save a substantial amount of their earning which they could remit back home. With the new rule already in effect, where the landlord could be fined up to 50,000.00 Dhirams for sheltering more than one family, many have been evicted and are scrambling to neighbouring emirates where rents are cheaper and travelling becomes much lengthier and costlier. Many who have children and shared villas with other families are getting back to their country as they cannot cope with the cost of education for their kids. It is expected that this rule will shortly extend to all those sharing apartments too, triggering an exodus of people who will be out on the road without shelter, becoming temporary nomads.
The lucky ones are those given accommodation by their employers, such as the airline companies and hotels.
Authorities here seem to be in a hurry to fill the thousands of gleaming new flats now available at an exorbitant price! The expatriate workers do not have and do not want to part with such sums of hard earned money for rents as they will not be able to save any money.
The nightmare continues in other areas as getting to work on time is increasingly frustrating with a pathetic public transport system and a thick-skinned taxi service! The roads are clogged with more and more vehicles as new toll systems at several major bridges are also creating confusion and an additional dent in the purse. It is imperative that you live close to your office and your children attend a nearby school to avoid a daily dose of exasperation and expenditure.
With the cost of living rising steadily and rumours of a tax on your pay packet coming soon, the golden era the workers enjoyed is fast fading away. Many have decided to call it quits and go home, even if it means going back to nothing.
Take heed, if you are preparing to come on an employment visa, make sure your employer provides you with accommodation or else you are in for your initial jolt on an exasperating bumpy journey to realizing your dreams.
Amarnath Paul
If even the maids can't make it here, you have to wonder where we are headed
Medflyer - if you have a stable job and are happy in your country, I'd say stay there. This is not the time to seek an 'adventure' in the Gulf.
Dubai dreams fade away
Dubai, the city paved with gold, where many expatriate workers have made their golden dreams come true through long years of hard work, is fast losing its allure. On the contrary, it is fast becoming a nightmare. It has been an ever popular destination for the desperately jobless Asian workers, past and present, for over three decades. But today that dream is slowly being shattered like soap bubbles exposed to the hot desert air, as the authorities place heavier burdens on the working populace.
Trouble began when Dubai Municipality introduced a law that only one family could live in a villa. Thousands of workers share bed space in villas in order to save a substantial amount of their earning which they could remit back home. With the new rule already in effect, where the landlord could be fined up to 50,000.00 Dhirams for sheltering more than one family, many have been evicted and are scrambling to neighbouring emirates where rents are cheaper and travelling becomes much lengthier and costlier. Many who have children and shared villas with other families are getting back to their country as they cannot cope with the cost of education for their kids. It is expected that this rule will shortly extend to all those sharing apartments too, triggering an exodus of people who will be out on the road without shelter, becoming temporary nomads.
The lucky ones are those given accommodation by their employers, such as the airline companies and hotels.
Authorities here seem to be in a hurry to fill the thousands of gleaming new flats now available at an exorbitant price! The expatriate workers do not have and do not want to part with such sums of hard earned money for rents as they will not be able to save any money.
The nightmare continues in other areas as getting to work on time is increasingly frustrating with a pathetic public transport system and a thick-skinned taxi service! The roads are clogged with more and more vehicles as new toll systems at several major bridges are also creating confusion and an additional dent in the purse. It is imperative that you live close to your office and your children attend a nearby school to avoid a daily dose of exasperation and expenditure.
With the cost of living rising steadily and rumours of a tax on your pay packet coming soon, the golden era the workers enjoyed is fast fading away. Many have decided to call it quits and go home, even if it means going back to nothing.
Take heed, if you are preparing to come on an employment visa, make sure your employer provides you with accommodation or else you are in for your initial jolt on an exasperating bumpy journey to realizing your dreams.
Amarnath Paul
If even the maids can't make it here, you have to wonder where we are headed
Medflyer - if you have a stable job and are happy in your country, I'd say stay there. This is not the time to seek an 'adventure' in the Gulf.
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EK Move
My Buddy moved to EK last year from one of the EU based LoCo's. He got sick of the rain and the taxes and lured by the opportunity of the shiny new hardware he took a bite a moved. 1 year on he's reasonably happy, enjoys the life and the salary and although not keen on his accomodation it's fine for him as a single guy.
The point he makes is this, soon as it's time to settle down he reckons he'll up stakes and move back home. The lustre seems well tarnished but if your goal is to bank some cash then it can be done but seems only if you don't have any baggage.
SH
The point he makes is this, soon as it's time to settle down he reckons he'll up stakes and move back home. The lustre seems well tarnished but if your goal is to bank some cash then it can be done but seems only if you don't have any baggage.
SH
Last edited by ShinjukuHustler; 10th Oct 2008 at 16:41. Reason: Typo
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If your coming close to command..ie, next 2 maybe 3 years in your own country that would be the best course. Command on a narrow body is far better than another 5 to 7 years in the right seat of a widebody.
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I really don't see the advantage for anybody from a western medium quality airline up to apply.
climate : terrible most of the year
traffic : grueling, life threatening simply
labor union : none
culture : big malls and even bigger cars. great.
inflation : double digits
management : unreliable, no job protection laws whatsoever
seniority list : worthless, since most won't stay anyway the whole career
housing : erratic, no guarantees regarding where you end up. are you guys really willed to gamble on the place your families has to live ??
flight time limitations, overtime etc : as they please, general hours above average
currency: US$. well...
plus you loose your friends at home, don't see your wider family anymore, internet/movies/media are restricted, religious issues, middle-age conservative mindset among the locals, high school fees, common law is sharia,language barriers,role of women in islamic countries,etc etc., the list is endless.
I can see the incentive of an early command on a wide body, but nobody cares for that when in a few years you leave, eventually you are going to end up at the bottom of a seniority list again! Or are you all planning on becoming a contractor?
you always hear the argument of a criminal-less society. I believe this is a myth in the first place but anyway, the risk of dying on sheik zaheed road is probably a hundred times higher than becoming a fatal victim of a crime in the western world.
why are you going there ??? I don't get it..
(sorry for pasting this from another thread)
climate : terrible most of the year
traffic : grueling, life threatening simply
labor union : none
culture : big malls and even bigger cars. great.
inflation : double digits
management : unreliable, no job protection laws whatsoever
seniority list : worthless, since most won't stay anyway the whole career
housing : erratic, no guarantees regarding where you end up. are you guys really willed to gamble on the place your families has to live ??
flight time limitations, overtime etc : as they please, general hours above average
currency: US$. well...
plus you loose your friends at home, don't see your wider family anymore, internet/movies/media are restricted, religious issues, middle-age conservative mindset among the locals, high school fees, common law is sharia,language barriers,role of women in islamic countries,etc etc., the list is endless.
I can see the incentive of an early command on a wide body, but nobody cares for that when in a few years you leave, eventually you are going to end up at the bottom of a seniority list again! Or are you all planning on becoming a contractor?
you always hear the argument of a criminal-less society. I believe this is a myth in the first place but anyway, the risk of dying on sheik zaheed road is probably a hundred times higher than becoming a fatal victim of a crime in the western world.
why are you going there ??? I don't get it..
(sorry for pasting this from another thread)
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Snam,
ERP is based upon the value of your home currency. In other words, if your home currency devalues or stays the same in comparison to the USD (after you join), then you receive nothing. If your currency increases in value, then you receive protection on 50% of your salary.
They use a rolling average, so in order to continue to receive ERP, your home currency must continue to increase in value as compared to the USD.
It is also capped at 7.5% of your Basic Salary. (based upon 15% of your Basic Salary, but only 1/2 of that because only 1/2 of your salary is protected)
In other words, if your currency rises dramatically over time and your Basic Salary is say, 20,000DHS, then you would get 1500DhS each month from ERP.
If I have any of these figures wrong, forgive me because I am too lazy to look it up.
ERP is based upon the value of your home currency. In other words, if your home currency devalues or stays the same in comparison to the USD (after you join), then you receive nothing. If your currency increases in value, then you receive protection on 50% of your salary.
They use a rolling average, so in order to continue to receive ERP, your home currency must continue to increase in value as compared to the USD.
It is also capped at 7.5% of your Basic Salary. (based upon 15% of your Basic Salary, but only 1/2 of that because only 1/2 of your salary is protected)
In other words, if your currency rises dramatically over time and your Basic Salary is say, 20,000DHS, then you would get 1500DhS each month from ERP.
If I have any of these figures wrong, forgive me because I am too lazy to look it up.
