Female pilots in the Middle East
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Female pilots in the Middle East
Will soon be furloughed from my job with a major US airline. I've come to the conclusion that if I want to continue an aviation career, I'll have to find a job outside the US. The Middle East seems to have the best prospects and I was just wondering which airlines already have female pilots.
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Before you make any hasty decisions , have you done your homework ?
Have you familiarized youself with the culture , demographics , geopolitical situation , and or the Airlines themselves in the area you mention ? Have you really made an effort , or are we going to be hearing from another bitter (American) pilot on this board in a few months who went abroad with little idea of the world out there and got suprised the the rest of the world didn`t run like they expected ? They don`t have much used for female pilots in the Middle East. Sorry to say that , but it`s their problem.
Have you familiarized youself with the culture , demographics , geopolitical situation , and or the Airlines themselves in the area you mention ? Have you really made an effort , or are we going to be hearing from another bitter (American) pilot on this board in a few months who went abroad with little idea of the world out there and got suprised the the rest of the world didn`t run like they expected ? They don`t have much used for female pilots in the Middle East. Sorry to say that , but it`s their problem.
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I know Etihad has a few, but I understand they're all locals and began as cadets. You might want to punt your resume into FlyDubai - an American is chief pilot from Southwest among other places.
Sorry to hear about your furlough Violet, wishing you all the best, but 6000 is right - it's not the best recruiting ground for females up the pointy end, and it is indeed their problem and their loss.
Sorry to hear about your furlough Violet, wishing you all the best, but 6000 is right - it's not the best recruiting ground for females up the pointy end, and it is indeed their problem and their loss.
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To 6000PIC:
Yes, I've done some research. I spent almost 10 years in the military living overseas. I've operated in the Middle East. From my limited time in Kuwait, Bahrain, and Jordan, I know there are some negatives to the culture and climate; but in my situation, I don't believe there would be much of an adjustment.
My husband (no kids) is on board with the idea and we've already put our properties up for sale. If he gets a decent non-aviation job, we live modestly and save, I think we will be better off in the long run.
I've searched the posts on the various airlines and rather than waste my time applying to companies that will immediately disqualify me based on gender; I'd rather concentrate my efforts on those where I might stand a chance. I'm not out to change the world, just tired of changing jobs every few years due to circumstances outside my control. (Furloughs, cutbacks, and closures). If a company does not want female pilots, that's fine. I just want to know where I may be welcome or at least considered.
Thanks,
Yes, I've done some research. I spent almost 10 years in the military living overseas. I've operated in the Middle East. From my limited time in Kuwait, Bahrain, and Jordan, I know there are some negatives to the culture and climate; but in my situation, I don't believe there would be much of an adjustment.
My husband (no kids) is on board with the idea and we've already put our properties up for sale. If he gets a decent non-aviation job, we live modestly and save, I think we will be better off in the long run.
I've searched the posts on the various airlines and rather than waste my time applying to companies that will immediately disqualify me based on gender; I'd rather concentrate my efforts on those where I might stand a chance. I'm not out to change the world, just tired of changing jobs every few years due to circumstances outside my control. (Furloughs, cutbacks, and closures). If a company does not want female pilots, that's fine. I just want to know where I may be welcome or at least considered.
Thanks,
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How many years
do you want to spend in the sandpit? Military is a different story, you do not live and work with these people here. Personally I dont think it is a good place for female pilots in general here. But yes there are a few pilots at Emirates, Etihad and I believe even at Qatar. Good luck.
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Don't let these posts deter you from going to the ME. Have spent over 10 years in Dubai and once you get past the thin veneer of religion, culture and so called stereotyping of women, the conditions are the same. Many wives and girlfriends of pilots and other expats live and work in Dubai without too many problems so why shouldn't you work there as well. Flown with female pilots both overseas and at Emirates and can honestly say the women bitch a lot lot less than the guys. They just do a professional job and go home to their lives outside flying. Just had to watch my language a little around the ladies which is fair enough! Good luck and see for yourself.....
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Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions. Believe me, I know it is not the ideal place for a female pilot. But, the industry is growing, the opportunities are increasing, and they are actually "hiring" pilots in the Middle East and more importantly they are taking possession of more aircraft. This is a positive sign in an otherwise gloomy aviation industry. If this were the case in Antartica, I'd be looking there. Job security, advancement, and adequate pay are paramount.
Flying Croc:
I'm looking at a minimum of 3-5 years. Potentially 10 or more, provided I'm making decent money and have some time off to travel. Over the past 4 years I've had 12 days of vacation...total. I've been furloughed 3 times in 5 years and will be again soon. Been through 3 new hire classes in the past 4 1/2 years. I'm sick of it. I want to work somewhere for a long time and call it home. I know I'm in the same boat as thousands of other furloughees. Because of no fault of our own, the industry has let us down and used us as temporary labor.
I ask: Where is it a good place for a female pilot these days? Where is it a good place for any pilot? Certainly not in the US. I lived on "the Rock" (Okinawa) for several years...wasn't particularly liked by the natives there, but when you respect your neighbors and live a quiet life, they tend to leave you alone, if not, you avoid them.
I don't care if I have to cover my head, or if I'm not allowed to drive, or if I have to conform to any other cultural requirement. I just want to fly, have job security, and a steady paycheck.
Is that asking too much?
Flying Croc:
I'm looking at a minimum of 3-5 years. Potentially 10 or more, provided I'm making decent money and have some time off to travel. Over the past 4 years I've had 12 days of vacation...total. I've been furloughed 3 times in 5 years and will be again soon. Been through 3 new hire classes in the past 4 1/2 years. I'm sick of it. I want to work somewhere for a long time and call it home. I know I'm in the same boat as thousands of other furloughees. Because of no fault of our own, the industry has let us down and used us as temporary labor.
I ask: Where is it a good place for a female pilot these days? Where is it a good place for any pilot? Certainly not in the US. I lived on "the Rock" (Okinawa) for several years...wasn't particularly liked by the natives there, but when you respect your neighbors and live a quiet life, they tend to leave you alone, if not, you avoid them.
I don't care if I have to cover my head, or if I'm not allowed to drive, or if I have to conform to any other cultural requirement. I just want to fly, have job security, and a steady paycheck.
Is that asking too much?
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Hi Violet
I find that on the rare occassions when I post, I try to be a voice of moderation. First of all I agree with your analysis. The US industry has not invested in a serious way in infrastructure for some time. The reasons are many but probably have a lot to do with a maturing industry and deregulation.
Let's deal with the negative posts. If you move to the GCC (I'm most familiar with Dubai) you'll find very little infringements on your personal liberties. Yes you can drive; yes you can wear what you want (within reason); yes you can socialize and drink alcohol (within reason); yes you can worship at Christian churches; yes you can get familiar foods at the supermarket (even pork)!
Having spoken to a few of the expat female pilots we have here at EK I have yet to hear any negative comments that are peculiar to their gender.
If your husband is joining you I might suggest you look at FlyDubai. They are not offering accomadation but with 2 incomes and 2 housing allowances you might live quite comfortably. Getting in early would also mean seniority and good upgrade possibilities.
Good Luck
Scaglietti
I find that on the rare occassions when I post, I try to be a voice of moderation. First of all I agree with your analysis. The US industry has not invested in a serious way in infrastructure for some time. The reasons are many but probably have a lot to do with a maturing industry and deregulation.
Let's deal with the negative posts. If you move to the GCC (I'm most familiar with Dubai) you'll find very little infringements on your personal liberties. Yes you can drive; yes you can wear what you want (within reason); yes you can socialize and drink alcohol (within reason); yes you can worship at Christian churches; yes you can get familiar foods at the supermarket (even pork)!
Having spoken to a few of the expat female pilots we have here at EK I have yet to hear any negative comments that are peculiar to their gender.
If your husband is joining you I might suggest you look at FlyDubai. They are not offering accomadation but with 2 incomes and 2 housing allowances you might live quite comfortably. Getting in early would also mean seniority and good upgrade possibilities.
Good Luck
Scaglietti
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I don't care if I have to cover my head, or if I'm not allowed to drive, or if I have to conform to any other cultural requirement. I just want to fly, have job security, and a steady paycheck. Is that asking too much?
Is that asking too much?
I would definitely look at Dubai, e.g EK or FlyDubia. I will only consider the rest in dire emergency!
My personal feeling is that the ME airlines only look at female pilots if all else fails and if they are in dire need of drivers. At present it looks as if the ME companies are flush with applicants!
Good luck!
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Dubai
Is without question about the only place suitable, not only for Females but also for expat pilots in general. As a city it has basically everything that you have in the western World, however it is not a World city comparable to New York or Hong Kong. Bad hot climate, dust, Ramadan closing, crazy insane driving, mostly single guys (laborers) in the streets that have not seen a woman in years. And also consider what is your husband going to do while you will fly around the World in your shiny jet to places like Paris, Singapore, New York etc. Ground jobs are usually lousy paid with bad conditions. Usually it is not even worth taking a job because of a few hundred dirhams. A girlfriend of a good friend just took an office job because she was so bored, paid bad but a least something to do. Think about this, you can work but the chances are very limited for him. And there is not much to do, he needs a sponsor to be able to work. If you should move, my advice don't sell the house, have an option in case everything goes wrong. The other gulf states, forget it, maybe Bahrain, but Gulf Air is in bad shape now. Try Emirates, Etihad, Fly Dubai and Air Arabia. Good luck. 
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I am not certain of how many female pilots Gulf Air has at this moment--I think 3. One is the first Bahraini female pilot and the others have all been of European nationality. I believe there are a few more female Bahraini cadet pilots in the pipeline. I, for one, would welcome the oportunity to see some more female pilots in the pilot ranks in Gulf Air. There are also some female pilots at the DHL operation here in Bahrain-- know of one female captain of Panamanian nationality.
Not all the countries here are equally created. I would think that the UAE and Bahrain would be the easiest for an independently minded, female professional to adapt to followed closely by Oman. Forget about Saudi Arabia.
I wish you luck!
Not all the countries here are equally created. I would think that the UAE and Bahrain would be the easiest for an independently minded, female professional to adapt to followed closely by Oman. Forget about Saudi Arabia.
I wish you luck!
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Violet , I sincerely wish you luck in your endevours. It must be frustrating to live and work in an industry and a world ( or at least the ME part of it ) where women are not treated equally. YouŽll get there in the end.
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Thanks for all the responses and messages. There certainly is a lot to consider, and I am making an in depth analysis of the facts and info. That's why I've been researching and asking for input from those who know...fellow pilots who are in the ME or have worked for ME carriers in the past. I knew that women are allowed to drive and need not cover their heads in most of the countries; I just wanted to emphasize my willingness to conform and sacrifice for the sake of fitting in and keeping the peace.
From a financial perspective I could take a job at a regional airline (starting at what, $18K a year or so) here in the US or a non-flying job and 10 years from now, I should be okay. Or, I could apply myself to flying as much as possible at a progressive airline in the Middle East (with a nice starting pay and yearly increases) and 10 years from now I will have enough money saved to have options. I could return to the US, stay in the ME, or move to some other place in the world.
To MYROSTERSUCKS:
I have an A320 and B757/767 types. I don't meet the minimum 500 hours on the A320 for Gulf Air and will be furloughed before I get to that threshold (have just over 200 on the A320). I've sent my info/applications to those companies that have been recommended, but I surmise that minimums are minimums and without which you are not qualified.
As far as flydubai is concerned, if priority is given to those with the 737 type, it may be some time before they would consider me. I have over 500 hours on the 757-200, but that's not the same as a 737. But hey...that's why we have unemployment compensation!
To FlyingCroc:
Husband is very resourceful. He painted buildings in Okinawa for 3 years while I flew shiney planes around Asia. We took some great vacations, saved a lot of $$ and now with his management degreee, who knows what opportunities await. He agrees that it would just be a waste for me to give up aviation after 16 1/2 years of flying because I might not like the sand, dust and potential cultural inconveniences. Plus, we both think living there would be exciting and a great location from which to travel to other countries.
From a financial perspective I could take a job at a regional airline (starting at what, $18K a year or so) here in the US or a non-flying job and 10 years from now, I should be okay. Or, I could apply myself to flying as much as possible at a progressive airline in the Middle East (with a nice starting pay and yearly increases) and 10 years from now I will have enough money saved to have options. I could return to the US, stay in the ME, or move to some other place in the world.
To MYROSTERSUCKS:
I have an A320 and B757/767 types. I don't meet the minimum 500 hours on the A320 for Gulf Air and will be furloughed before I get to that threshold (have just over 200 on the A320). I've sent my info/applications to those companies that have been recommended, but I surmise that minimums are minimums and without which you are not qualified.
As far as flydubai is concerned, if priority is given to those with the 737 type, it may be some time before they would consider me. I have over 500 hours on the 757-200, but that's not the same as a 737. But hey...that's why we have unemployment compensation!
To FlyingCroc:
Husband is very resourceful. He painted buildings in Okinawa for 3 years while I flew shiney planes around Asia. We took some great vacations, saved a lot of $$ and now with his management degreee, who knows what opportunities await. He agrees that it would just be a waste for me to give up aviation after 16 1/2 years of flying because I might not like the sand, dust and potential cultural inconveniences. Plus, we both think living there would be exciting and a great location from which to travel to other countries.