Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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should be grateful youve got a job etc etc
Ali,
Staff west man, magnatex LHR, you name it, they're all pretty bad !
But, bit tired of this ''be grateful you got a job'' twaddle.
Its pretty simple, the FD job's not as described. There some worrying trends developing. Its only seven months on and pals on the inside reckon its showing signs of going down the emirates route. Changes in contract terms (pay, medical etc)
Some terms and conditions like sensible rostering, leave planning have nothing to do with the economy.
Its tough everywhere, but everytime someone is prepared to accept that little bit less we inch closer to pilots earning £100 for an 8 day week.
Have a look at the latest easy and Jet II contracts, you can see where its going! FD is supposed to be better than that.
Staff west man, magnatex LHR, you name it, they're all pretty bad !
But, bit tired of this ''be grateful you got a job'' twaddle.
Its pretty simple, the FD job's not as described. There some worrying trends developing. Its only seven months on and pals on the inside reckon its showing signs of going down the emirates route. Changes in contract terms (pay, medical etc)
Some terms and conditions like sensible rostering, leave planning have nothing to do with the economy.
Its tough everywhere, but everytime someone is prepared to accept that little bit less we inch closer to pilots earning £100 for an 8 day week.
Have a look at the latest easy and Jet II contracts, you can see where its going! FD is supposed to be better than that.
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Hey Randybmc care to counter these allegations. Or are you over your group hug US whoop whoop , be the best you can be bull at FD yet, and waking up to the realities of the Middle East, Indian clerks, and expat management who dont give two sheiks about you. I believe you slated me a few months ago in your euphoria. Did I have a problem? Had I failed a ride? etc etc. Care to update me.Genuinely curious. Be honest now.
Now Old King Coal
is a quiet old soul
flying in the middle E
maybe hes gone
for a line trg flight
or just a der liv er y
Now Old King Coal
is a quiet old soul
flying in the middle E
maybe hes gone
for a line trg flight
or just a der liv er y
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Giggedy - I hear what you say.
But the reality of life in a capitalist free market economy (or something working on similar principles) is that businesses are there to make a profit. The clever ones will not try to do it at the expense of their employees (Ryanair?) however, when margins are squeezed we ALL need to share the pain, otherwise there will be no business to work for.
Yes, the contract for new joiners is slightly less than the old one, but nobody already in the Company had a paycut - unlike some pilots in the UK! Neither was anyone forced to accept the new contract - if they didn't like it there was someone in the queue right behind them that WOULD be 'grateful for the job'.
If pilots are working for less or having to put up with changes in working practises, surely it is a reflection of the industry as whole and not just one airline? The airline industry has changed forever with mass availability of low cost seats. The T & Cs for all employees of this industry will eventually follow suit and I'm surprised you can't see that. If you think there is some kind of utopia where employees never have to accept negative trends then think of some industries where that philosophy was tried - British Leyland? British Steel? British Coal? Perhaps British Airways in the not too distant future? How long shall I make the list?
The rostering is far from perfect, but is that to punish the pilots or to protect the company's competitive edge? How do you know whether or not there is the possibility of a new route opening on the day of your standby? Do you think leave is notified late because they WANT to make life difficult for their workforce, or because logistically it's a nightmare to organise? These things will get sorted over time. Working in this industry requires flexibility and adaptability, all the more so with a brand new company. If you can't stomach the changes, find a job in public services in the UK. They don't have to put up with the realities of life because, ofcourse, our trusty labour government just steals the money it needs out of our pockets. And they are another bunch of people that should find another job...
If you know of a better deal elsewhere, I'd love to hear about it...
But the reality of life in a capitalist free market economy (or something working on similar principles) is that businesses are there to make a profit. The clever ones will not try to do it at the expense of their employees (Ryanair?) however, when margins are squeezed we ALL need to share the pain, otherwise there will be no business to work for.
Yes, the contract for new joiners is slightly less than the old one, but nobody already in the Company had a paycut - unlike some pilots in the UK! Neither was anyone forced to accept the new contract - if they didn't like it there was someone in the queue right behind them that WOULD be 'grateful for the job'.
If pilots are working for less or having to put up with changes in working practises, surely it is a reflection of the industry as whole and not just one airline? The airline industry has changed forever with mass availability of low cost seats. The T & Cs for all employees of this industry will eventually follow suit and I'm surprised you can't see that. If you think there is some kind of utopia where employees never have to accept negative trends then think of some industries where that philosophy was tried - British Leyland? British Steel? British Coal? Perhaps British Airways in the not too distant future? How long shall I make the list?
The rostering is far from perfect, but is that to punish the pilots or to protect the company's competitive edge? How do you know whether or not there is the possibility of a new route opening on the day of your standby? Do you think leave is notified late because they WANT to make life difficult for their workforce, or because logistically it's a nightmare to organise? These things will get sorted over time. Working in this industry requires flexibility and adaptability, all the more so with a brand new company. If you can't stomach the changes, find a job in public services in the UK. They don't have to put up with the realities of life because, ofcourse, our trusty labour government just steals the money it needs out of our pockets. And they are another bunch of people that should find another job...
If you know of a better deal elsewhere, I'd love to hear about it...
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I am loving it!
I had a tough time when I first arrived, which was definitely due to the company being new. There was just confusion about the procedures in Dubai to attain housing, loans, set up utilities, etc. as flydubai was taking over the HR processes from EK and nothing concrete had been established to guide new hires.
There are certainly issues, as every airline have, but I do see most working together to try to solve them. Every place I have been has had a few bad apples, and I am sure we have them in every department in one form or another. Mostly though, people are trying to do their best. I honestly believe that. I hope because of that, things will slowly improve over time with regard to rostering and leave. They already have started to improve in relation to flight hours, which was a complaint recently. Even with leave in January, I am flying 58 hours.
The contract changes with pay were made known to all who joined - no changes were made to anyone's pay (transport and housing allowance) after they had signed the contract. I don't like that our pay was reduced, but it was not a surprise.
I have also flown with a lot of guys that I really like here. So far, I have had a great time on the line and at Barasti. I've made good friends that my wife and I spend a lot of time with, and my kids love their school. I do miss having a garage (I have always worked on cars).
There are days that I hear things that upset me, but on the whole, I am really happy (still) with flydubai.
Hope that helps!
RandyBMC
I had a tough time when I first arrived, which was definitely due to the company being new. There was just confusion about the procedures in Dubai to attain housing, loans, set up utilities, etc. as flydubai was taking over the HR processes from EK and nothing concrete had been established to guide new hires.
There are certainly issues, as every airline have, but I do see most working together to try to solve them. Every place I have been has had a few bad apples, and I am sure we have them in every department in one form or another. Mostly though, people are trying to do their best. I honestly believe that. I hope because of that, things will slowly improve over time with regard to rostering and leave. They already have started to improve in relation to flight hours, which was a complaint recently. Even with leave in January, I am flying 58 hours.
The contract changes with pay were made known to all who joined - no changes were made to anyone's pay (transport and housing allowance) after they had signed the contract. I don't like that our pay was reduced, but it was not a surprise.
I have also flown with a lot of guys that I really like here. So far, I have had a great time on the line and at Barasti. I've made good friends that my wife and I spend a lot of time with, and my kids love their school. I do miss having a garage (I have always worked on cars).
There are days that I hear things that upset me, but on the whole, I am really happy (still) with flydubai.
Hope that helps!
RandyBMC
Last edited by RandyBMC; 1st Mar 2010 at 11:13.
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Ali,
I agree with some of what you say, Youre preaching to the converted, ie. I disagree with BA strikes etc, but I think its a little harsh to go around calling people a 'bunch of sissies' because things do not appear to be turning out as promised!
I assume you work for FD? I dont. Theres a few of us (LCC in the uk) that were interested as some colleagues have already gone to FD. Some are also heading to FR. (chalk and cheese!) I was curious about FD but surprised at the less than glowing feedback at this early stage. You obviously have useful inside info, perhaps you can share with those considering the move?
Not sure I or understand what youre getting at re punishing pilots with the rostering. (Have they done anything wrong?)
From what I hear its difficult to plan a life around the rosters and leave. Nothing wrong with expecting a life outside work in any job or industry eh? Any of the present ops/rostering systems can account for additional flights, changes, leave, training, expansion etc. In 2010 I cant really see why a roster has to be published just 5 days in advance in a scheduled airline with only 6 aircraft. Or why leave is allocated the month before its due. Stbys can cover unexpected flights, so there must be more to it.
Either way, Im sure it'll get on its feet soon enough. Good luck to all that have taken the plunge.
I agree with some of what you say, Youre preaching to the converted, ie. I disagree with BA strikes etc, but I think its a little harsh to go around calling people a 'bunch of sissies' because things do not appear to be turning out as promised!
I assume you work for FD? I dont. Theres a few of us (LCC in the uk) that were interested as some colleagues have already gone to FD. Some are also heading to FR. (chalk and cheese!) I was curious about FD but surprised at the less than glowing feedback at this early stage. You obviously have useful inside info, perhaps you can share with those considering the move?
Not sure I or understand what youre getting at re punishing pilots with the rostering. (Have they done anything wrong?)
From what I hear its difficult to plan a life around the rosters and leave. Nothing wrong with expecting a life outside work in any job or industry eh? Any of the present ops/rostering systems can account for additional flights, changes, leave, training, expansion etc. In 2010 I cant really see why a roster has to be published just 5 days in advance in a scheduled airline with only 6 aircraft. Or why leave is allocated the month before its due. Stbys can cover unexpected flights, so there must be more to it.
Either way, Im sure it'll get on its feet soon enough. Good luck to all that have taken the plunge.
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Good point!!!
Giggedy,
After reading all of this ,I have to agree with you big time.Its just the initial part of the EK ****.Make no mistake ,I have to say I am looking for jobs ,even in China ,where I have to say ,Its not a fantastic place to work .I am an A330 driver with EK for 4 years now .And whoever is trying to get a job in the ME ,think twice .A bad job at home is better than another job somewhere else.
Guys and Gals be very carefull on choosing the sand crap......
After reading all of this ,I have to agree with you big time.Its just the initial part of the EK ****.Make no mistake ,I have to say I am looking for jobs ,even in China ,where I have to say ,Its not a fantastic place to work .I am an A330 driver with EK for 4 years now .And whoever is trying to get a job in the ME ,think twice .A bad job at home is better than another job somewhere else.
Guys and Gals be very carefull on choosing the sand crap......
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Giggedy
The 'sissies' thing was a bit tongue in cheek. We all see things from a different perspective I suppose. From my point of view, I've done a manual job for a living, working 7 'til 7, six sometimes seven days a week. Flying for a living under all the conditions I've experienced so far still feels like a holiday to me. There's never a flight that goes by where I don't feel privileged to do the job. It seems like yesterday I was scratting round for my first flying job and I haven't forgotton the feeling of being on the outside, looking in.
As far as FD is concerned, I don't recall being promised anything in the interview that they're not trying to achieve - no need for more cliches. The management and the chief pilot imparticular are going to a lot of time and trouble to explain to crews the logic behind the current rostering practice and leave allocation and I, for one, am happy with that explanation.
There will always be some pilots that aren't happy (the collective noun for pilots is a 'whinge' for good reason!) but I certainly don't believe that this is the majority feeling.
I have no doubt that some people have had a bad experience of the Middle East, but so far, I am not one of them. FD is not Emirates, it's FD.
My experience so far (about 6 months) of the Company and Dubai has only been positive, and I would not hesitate to recommend them both to any of my friends and colleagues.
Ali
The 'sissies' thing was a bit tongue in cheek. We all see things from a different perspective I suppose. From my point of view, I've done a manual job for a living, working 7 'til 7, six sometimes seven days a week. Flying for a living under all the conditions I've experienced so far still feels like a holiday to me. There's never a flight that goes by where I don't feel privileged to do the job. It seems like yesterday I was scratting round for my first flying job and I haven't forgotton the feeling of being on the outside, looking in.
As far as FD is concerned, I don't recall being promised anything in the interview that they're not trying to achieve - no need for more cliches. The management and the chief pilot imparticular are going to a lot of time and trouble to explain to crews the logic behind the current rostering practice and leave allocation and I, for one, am happy with that explanation.
There will always be some pilots that aren't happy (the collective noun for pilots is a 'whinge' for good reason!) but I certainly don't believe that this is the majority feeling.
I have no doubt that some people have had a bad experience of the Middle East, but so far, I am not one of them. FD is not Emirates, it's FD.
My experience so far (about 6 months) of the Company and Dubai has only been positive, and I would not hesitate to recommend them both to any of my friends and colleagues.
Ali
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and here we go....
.... the whinners and negative guys have arrived to this thread that was ok, many giving nice,positive and informative feedback to all. Guys , get lost, become secretaries, nurses, lawyers, 7-11 clerk or whatever. Then you will have a 9-5job, weekends, sound sleep, good food, "no" (?!) boss that treat you bad or takes it personal against your dignity and ego giving you s***y shifts, etc.
Get lost if you don't understand that a new operation requires hard work and flexibility. Have you ever try to be your own boss and open a business yourself? Do you know what it takes? No ? Anyone of your family had tried it? Ask them, inform yourself before opening your mouth and poisioning everthing around you with your negativity.
Nothing is perfect and can and should be improved , agree, but wow this usual c**p is SO
Just one question, for example, to whoever had complain about the roster being issued 5 days before month end. What is the big deal!!!!!!!!! You still can do your stuff , plan to have a beer+BBQ , go to the beach or kiss your wife on the cheek any time you are off. Do you have so many activities that 15 days planning are needed? Do you need landing clearance 40 minutes before touchdown or getting it 3 miles on final stops your heart or push you to perform a GA and run out of fuel because someone had to manage things differently ,from your perspective of course. And so the story could go on and on.
To all who like to enjoy reading pprune and are in positive mode, lets make a deal. Ignore THE WISE PROFESIONAL PILOTS THAT LIKE TO BE TREATED LIKE ONE BUT BEHEAVE LIKE ....( use your own adjective, there are many suitable) . Hopefully after a while they will get tired and will polute somewhere else.
Nop, I dont work for FD ,EK. Im not rich and Im a pilot. Critique is good but for any complaints bring a solution. A smart critique and a smart solution are the one welcomed.
Get lost if you don't understand that a new operation requires hard work and flexibility. Have you ever try to be your own boss and open a business yourself? Do you know what it takes? No ? Anyone of your family had tried it? Ask them, inform yourself before opening your mouth and poisioning everthing around you with your negativity.
Nothing is perfect and can and should be improved , agree, but wow this usual c**p is SO
Just one question, for example, to whoever had complain about the roster being issued 5 days before month end. What is the big deal!!!!!!!!! You still can do your stuff , plan to have a beer+BBQ , go to the beach or kiss your wife on the cheek any time you are off. Do you have so many activities that 15 days planning are needed? Do you need landing clearance 40 minutes before touchdown or getting it 3 miles on final stops your heart or push you to perform a GA and run out of fuel because someone had to manage things differently ,from your perspective of course. And so the story could go on and on.
To all who like to enjoy reading pprune and are in positive mode, lets make a deal. Ignore THE WISE PROFESIONAL PILOTS THAT LIKE TO BE TREATED LIKE ONE BUT BEHEAVE LIKE ....( use your own adjective, there are many suitable) . Hopefully after a while they will get tired and will polute somewhere else.
Nop, I dont work for FD ,EK. Im not rich and Im a pilot. Critique is good but for any complaints bring a solution. A smart critique and a smart solution are the one welcomed.
Last edited by EGGW; 19th Jan 2010 at 03:57. Reason: Spelling edited and Txt speak removed
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Excellent post!
Maybe FD should think about stopping restricting the job to 737 NG rated pilots and be more selective on abilities to get the job done while living in the region... It's sad to see such a waste.
Maybe FD should think about stopping restricting the job to 737 NG rated pilots and be more selective on abilities to get the job done while living in the region... It's sad to see such a waste.
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I think some are missing the point. This could be the best 737 job out there, and that's how it was presented in the interview process it would be established. A couple of simple changes could be made to the roster process (honestly there is no process, its handed to us with zero input from the pilot group) and would solve many of the issues. 160 duty hours and only flying 40 or 50 hours during a time when there is almost no training going on is idiotic. Even now the scheduling department says it doesn't really matter what call out window you have. They can call at anytime they wish and assign whatever they wish to you. All that matters is that you have minimum rest and you are good to go.
So to even have 15 days notice to plan something doesn't mean anything because the brown mafia will do whatever they want with your schedule, even on your 8 days off! This isn't being a whiner, this is presenting facts to those that want to know what's going on at FD. 6 months into operations, the company has been split into operations and office staff. I doubt that Southwest would be the company it is today if that attitude was allowed to continue as upper management is allowing at FD.
If it isn't corrected, this company won't make it very long as the front line employees will make or break this airline. Most of the flight crew at FD are willing to go the extra mile to be flexible, but unfortunately most of the office staff are unwilling to do ANYTHING unless they have thier hand forced.
So to even have 15 days notice to plan something doesn't mean anything because the brown mafia will do whatever they want with your schedule, even on your 8 days off! This isn't being a whiner, this is presenting facts to those that want to know what's going on at FD. 6 months into operations, the company has been split into operations and office staff. I doubt that Southwest would be the company it is today if that attitude was allowed to continue as upper management is allowing at FD.
If it isn't corrected, this company won't make it very long as the front line employees will make or break this airline. Most of the flight crew at FD are willing to go the extra mile to be flexible, but unfortunately most of the office staff are unwilling to do ANYTHING unless they have thier hand forced.
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What are the consequences if you turn down a flight on your guaranteed day off?
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SFLY, it was discussed at the interview. We were told that is was a non issue if you could not work on a day off, but we were told a lot in the interview. A lot of the US and Canadian guys are pissed about the insurance coverage. During the interview they were told it would be a "world wide" covereage plan. After the contract was signed those guys were then told it applies to every where in the world except North America
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FZckntkawrap, I understand the deep disappointment those guys are going through, and it's a difficult choice to make between not having an insurance in North America and not having a job in North America. It would have been more fair if from beginning the airline hadn't recruited people from countries in which insurance wouldn't work 
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flydubai
Hi all, is there a way to update my application form with flydubai? I looked at the website to see how but there was nothing, some help would be grateful.
Many thanks
Many thanks