Urgent advice for crews re-routed onto UP559 (especially Etihad)
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Urgent advice for crews re-routed onto UP559 (especially Etihad)
Gents,
Currently, due to a miltary exercise, Jeddah Control are re-routing aircraft which have filed via UN318 through Bahrain airspace onto UP559. Somewhere along the chain, the clearance is being misinterpreted/incorrectly issued/whatever and most crews arrive at the Bahrain FIR boundary unsure of where they are supposed to be going. Some incorrectly position themselves back on UN318 prior to establishing contact with Bahrain on 125.05. Irrespective of whose fault this is, this needs to stop ASAP in this area of poor/no radar coverage.
We are attempting to do what we can via official channels, but please spread the word.
Currently, due to a miltary exercise, Jeddah Control are re-routing aircraft which have filed via UN318 through Bahrain airspace onto UP559. Somewhere along the chain, the clearance is being misinterpreted/incorrectly issued/whatever and most crews arrive at the Bahrain FIR boundary unsure of where they are supposed to be going. Some incorrectly position themselves back on UN318 prior to establishing contact with Bahrain on 125.05. Irrespective of whose fault this is, this needs to stop ASAP in this area of poor/no radar coverage.
We are attempting to do what we can via official channels, but please spread the word.
I'm not from Etihad but as a matter of academic interest what should be the routeing after LOTIT? IIRC Abu Dhabi want all their northern inbounds via BOXAK and there's no obvious route from LOTIT to BOXAK. Or from LOTIT are they to take A791 to DESDI and arrive into AUH from the north via MIADA? Is that not going to exacerbate DXB inbound congestion? UN318 ( when it IS available) avoids this problem since it gets you to NOSRI on the way to pick up B457 to BOXAK.All suggestions gratefully received! Many thanks.
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You dont get to LOTIT. Once identified by Bahrain (about 30nm past ULOVO), you will be given DCT ASPAN to pick up the UN318.
The (butchered) amended clearance is just to get you a bit north of where you would've been, until Bahrain can see you.
The (butchered) amended clearance is just to get you a bit north of where you would've been, until Bahrain can see you.
Right.Got that.Shortly put - don't meander towards TAGSO or DEBOL even though it might give a warm fuzzy familiar feeling. Stay with UP559 ( if that's your clearance) until Bahrein move you in the general direction of UN318.That about the size of it?
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Jeddah Control are re-routing aircraft which have filed via UN318 through Bahrain airspace onto UP559.
most crews arrive at the Bahrain FIR boundary unsure of where they are supposed to be going
Some incorrectly position themselves back on UN318 prior to establishing contact with Bahrain on 125.05
Irrespective of whose fault this is, this needs to stop ASAP in this area of poor/no radar coverage
due to a miltary exercise
Final question! I applaud and endorse your effort Ferris but, why are you using PPRUNE to disseminate this info and not the normal established international aviation channels of communication?
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Whiplash
If you dont understand certain things about the middle east, why are you posting in this forum?
Or (as I suspect), if you know exactly what is going on, and had to create a new identity in order to facilitate your $hit-stirring, then get a life.
I will answer, for the wider audience, and within the bounds of sensitivity.
Isn't it an ICAO requirement to ensure that a "safe" downstream clearance is issued whenever a "re-route" is issued? Things that are ICAO requirements, and what is happening, are not necessarily the same. One state's ability to influence how another state does ATC is, well, limited.
Shouldn't they all be in contact before the FIR boundary? Why not then just ask before doing something weird?
Bahrain operates the area in question on a delegation from Jeddah. Bahrain does not have communication and control responsibility until 30nm into the delegated area. Bahrain does have comms at the boundary, but not radar coverage. Crews are not doing what they think is "weird". They believe they are adhering to the clearance. Clearances are often "weird" in this part of the world, as a matter of routine. Ask someone with experience of the region why.
You provide a radar service without radar coverage? Are UN318 and UP559 procedurally separated routes?
No, Bahrain provides radar service within radar coverage. Radar coverage does not extend to the western boundary. Pretty stupid question. If you had flown inbound on those routes you would be aware of where/when Bahrain identifies you. The routes are deemed separated.
Why don't the pilots know about the military exercise? Why would/should they? Do you ever question why the air routes are laid out the way they are in the first place? Do you really think you know even 50% of what is going on around you on a daily basis?
why are you using PPRUNE to disseminate this info Did you miss the part in my post about official channels? PPrune is fast. Necessity is the mother of invention. If an airmiss is prevented by this post, then more power to this site, and too bad if it isn't the "correct way" of doing things. The "correct way" is just another way, here (and it is being used as well).
Or (as I suspect), if you know exactly what is going on, and had to create a new identity in order to facilitate your $hit-stirring, then get a life.
I will answer, for the wider audience, and within the bounds of sensitivity.
Isn't it an ICAO requirement to ensure that a "safe" downstream clearance is issued whenever a "re-route" is issued? Things that are ICAO requirements, and what is happening, are not necessarily the same. One state's ability to influence how another state does ATC is, well, limited.
Shouldn't they all be in contact before the FIR boundary? Why not then just ask before doing something weird?
Bahrain operates the area in question on a delegation from Jeddah. Bahrain does not have communication and control responsibility until 30nm into the delegated area. Bahrain does have comms at the boundary, but not radar coverage. Crews are not doing what they think is "weird". They believe they are adhering to the clearance. Clearances are often "weird" in this part of the world, as a matter of routine. Ask someone with experience of the region why.
You provide a radar service without radar coverage? Are UN318 and UP559 procedurally separated routes?
No, Bahrain provides radar service within radar coverage. Radar coverage does not extend to the western boundary. Pretty stupid question. If you had flown inbound on those routes you would be aware of where/when Bahrain identifies you. The routes are deemed separated.
Why don't the pilots know about the military exercise? Why would/should they? Do you ever question why the air routes are laid out the way they are in the first place? Do you really think you know even 50% of what is going on around you on a daily basis?
why are you using PPRUNE to disseminate this info Did you miss the part in my post about official channels? PPrune is fast. Necessity is the mother of invention. If an airmiss is prevented by this post, then more power to this site, and too bad if it isn't the "correct way" of doing things. The "correct way" is just another way, here (and it is being used as well).
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kamaciwa 
Not very "dharma" of you?
Ferris,
Thanks you answered most of my questions, especially the last one, good thinking on your part! Confusing introduction to your reply [Sorry I asked though as I'm not looking for dispute.]. My questions were based on our Jep charts which don't show most of what you said. 30nm further communication and control resonsibility, lack of radar coverage etc. Generally if one is rerouted you should check before deviating from that clearance?
Not very "dharma" of you?Ferris,
Thanks you answered most of my questions, especially the last one, good thinking on your part! Confusing introduction to your reply [Sorry I asked though as I'm not looking for dispute.]. My questions were based on our Jep charts which don't show most of what you said. 30nm further communication and control resonsibility, lack of radar coverage etc. Generally if one is rerouted you should check before deviating from that clearance?
Last edited by Whip-lash; 3rd May 2008 at 08:32.
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Wish I hadda read this post a few days back.
Cleared dir Ulovo even though not planned that way.
They (Saudi) couldn't give a toss, not my problem you could almost hear them say.
Saudi were of no use so called BAH early for onwards clearance.
At least they were helpful!
Of course it was in the NOTAMs - NOT!
Cleared dir Ulovo even though not planned that way.
They (Saudi) couldn't give a toss, not my problem you could almost hear them say.
Saudi were of no use so called BAH early for onwards clearance.
At least they were helpful!
Of course it was in the NOTAMs - NOT!
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OEJD FIR 2008040F6E8V01 A0424/08
Q)OEJD/QRCXX/IV/NBO /E /000/420/
A)OEJD B)200804260300 C)200805071900
D)DLY BTN 0300-1900
E)DANGER AREA OE(D)-400ACT:
PORTION OF RNAN ROUTE UP559 FROM CRP RASMO TO CRP ( KMC) IS CLSD.
PORTION OF ATS ROUTE A788 FROM CRP LOXOM TO ( HFR) IS CLSD.
TFC USING ( UP559) DURING THESE TIMES TO
USE-RASMO-UT514-LOXOM-UN318.TFC USING (A788)DURING THESE TIMES TO
USE OTHER ROUTE.
F)GND
G)40000FT
Every tide has its ebb ,Ferris
I
Q)OEJD/QRCXX/IV/NBO /E /000/420/
A)OEJD B)200804260300 C)200805071900
D)DLY BTN 0300-1900
E)DANGER AREA OE(D)-400ACT:
PORTION OF RNAN ROUTE UP559 FROM CRP RASMO TO CRP ( KMC) IS CLSD.
PORTION OF ATS ROUTE A788 FROM CRP LOXOM TO ( HFR) IS CLSD.
TFC USING ( UP559) DURING THESE TIMES TO
USE-RASMO-UT514-LOXOM-UN318.TFC USING (A788)DURING THESE TIMES TO
USE OTHER ROUTE.
F)GND
G)40000FT
Every tide has its ebb ,Ferris
I
