National Air Services NAS!!!!!!!!
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I didn’t think that National Air Service called themselves an "airline".....
Actually, joking aside, interested article in Arab News today with CEO Ed Winter of NASAIR, he basically stated that its impossible to make money domestically due to price of oil and a government fare cap and that even if they "filled every seat at the fare cap, I would still lose money"....
I predicted this on Pprune 2 years ago, but it is nice to see a LOW COST airline complaining that they cant charge enough
Mutt
Actually, joking aside, interested article in Arab News today with CEO Ed Winter of NASAIR, he basically stated that its impossible to make money domestically due to price of oil and a government fare cap and that even if they "filled every seat at the fare cap, I would still lose money"....
I predicted this on Pprune 2 years ago, but it is nice to see a LOW COST airline complaining that they cant charge enough
Mutt
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NAS operating A340 VIP config
A shiny A340, NAS bound, just recently left EINN where it was being painted in it's new scheme, quite impressive I must say, judging by the pics.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that NAS is part of a larger, tangled and convoluted entity comprising of several other ventures. The amount of money these guys have seems to be endless, the point being, they complain about operating in a lose-lose situation when it comes to fare cap and fuel price but it hardly matters if the overall aim of the 'group' is to turn a profit...can anyone verify if this is the case.??
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...318_Elite.html
Meanwhile another operator is due to enter the fray soon with airbus elite stlye config. Reported to be RUH based, I believe the name is 'MAV' however no idea who or what the name represents. No AOC, none needed for now as just planning on leasing the aircraft.Offices in downtown RUH.
Sama, the only 'real' loco in KSA is still going despite the high fuel prices, attempts to generate revenue in the unprofitable domestic market has seen Sama move to international routes a full 10months ahead of schedule. 6 733's plus a subcharter of J41 from EasternSkyJets in DXB to operate the compulsory 'charity' routes in the north.
Yet another one, 'Red-Sea' (not sure if this is the final decision on the name) These are supposed to be JED based with 4 744's, no AOC in the hand either but if rumours are to be believed, there will be a few more AOC's up for grabs sometime soon in the kingdom.
Anyone care to shed any light on some or all of the above?
Hustle On
Anecdotal evidence suggests that NAS is part of a larger, tangled and convoluted entity comprising of several other ventures. The amount of money these guys have seems to be endless, the point being, they complain about operating in a lose-lose situation when it comes to fare cap and fuel price but it hardly matters if the overall aim of the 'group' is to turn a profit...can anyone verify if this is the case.??
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...318_Elite.html
Meanwhile another operator is due to enter the fray soon with airbus elite stlye config. Reported to be RUH based, I believe the name is 'MAV' however no idea who or what the name represents. No AOC, none needed for now as just planning on leasing the aircraft.Offices in downtown RUH.
Sama, the only 'real' loco in KSA is still going despite the high fuel prices, attempts to generate revenue in the unprofitable domestic market has seen Sama move to international routes a full 10months ahead of schedule. 6 733's plus a subcharter of J41 from EasternSkyJets in DXB to operate the compulsory 'charity' routes in the north.
Yet another one, 'Red-Sea' (not sure if this is the final decision on the name) These are supposed to be JED based with 4 744's, no AOC in the hand either but if rumours are to be believed, there will be a few more AOC's up for grabs sometime soon in the kingdom.
Anyone care to shed any light on some or all of the above?
Hustle On
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I presume that you are talking about the Saad Air A340 that is operated by NAS ? I would normally seach airliners.net for "A340 & Shannon" and expect to find the photo, but failed this time.. 
My impression is that the bucket was empty when the new owners came calling, and in the case of NJME, they cant find the appropriate bucket! Certainly not endless, but probably enough to keep them going til the IPO......
Tough tits... they knew before they got the licence, any research could have shown them that the LOCO model wouldnt work!
RedSea also has an Arabic name, they have high expectations but so far no results... anyway why should SVA just hand over the Umrah business?
I need to become a "consultant", rip some people off and disappear with their money....
Just to add to your rumor list, is it true that the last CEO of NASAIR was pushed out when the owners discovered that it was losing monty? Also, is it true that SVA has sold a minority stake in CARGO to a local investor with US advisors.....
Mutt
The amount of money these guys have seems to be endless
operate the compulsory 'charity' routes in the north
RedSea also has an Arabic name, they have high expectations but so far no results... anyway why should SVA just hand over the Umrah business?
there will be a few more AOC's up for grabs sometime soon in the kingdom
Just to add to your rumor list, is it true that the last CEO of NASAIR was pushed out when the owners discovered that it was losing monty? Also, is it true that SVA has sold a minority stake in CARGO to a local investor with US advisors.....
Mutt
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Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The 340 aircraft belonged to sheikh mann but NAS lost the contract and he now has his own setup in Bahrain.
National air services have lost all of there major VIP contracts and the only one to still be keeping them afloat is the Saudi MOF BBJ , and that only has 12 months to run before it goes back to saudia!!!!!!
Al Khayala is a joke and flies empty arount the middle east for the hell of it, because NAS is so disorganised its low cost opperation NAS AIR will never be as good and profiable as SAMA.
National air services has management that have all come from BMED and look what happened to them, the crap uk management are putting the icing on the cake for this joke of a company and finally sealing its fate.
If you haven't heard it before (and I will very much doubt it if you haven't heard of NAS)...........................Stay away, be very afraid, this company is a joke. NATIONAL AIR SERVICES has as good a reputation in the middle east as raw sewerage leaked in to drinking water, uuuuuuuuuuuugggggggghhh.
National air services have lost all of there major VIP contracts and the only one to still be keeping them afloat is the Saudi MOF BBJ , and that only has 12 months to run before it goes back to saudia!!!!!!
Al Khayala is a joke and flies empty arount the middle east for the hell of it, because NAS is so disorganised its low cost opperation NAS AIR will never be as good and profiable as SAMA.
National air services has management that have all come from BMED and look what happened to them, the crap uk management are putting the icing on the cake for this joke of a company and finally sealing its fate.
If you haven't heard it before (and I will very much doubt it if you haven't heard of NAS)...........................Stay away, be very afraid, this company is a joke. NATIONAL AIR SERVICES has as good a reputation in the middle east as raw sewerage leaked in to drinking water, uuuuuuuuuuuugggggggghhh.
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Don't know the inside story of NAS. But I am surprised they have so many troubles. Isn't a certain ex-fighter pilot a partner in the business? You'd think with that influential a figure on board, they're sorted.
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As we have already discussed the "inability" of the LOCO's to make money in Saudi Arabia, I thought that i would also post this about SAMA..
Sama investors lose patience over '100 per cent' losses
Sama shareholders are warning that the airline may be forced to close if Riyadh does not act to reduce the carrier's fuel costs and complete the liberalisation of the kingdom's aviation sector.
Senior investors in the low-cost carrier claim that the government's failure to remove market distortions favouring the national carrier, Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia), are making Sama impossible to run profitably.
The company, which only began operations early last year, is making huge losses, with most of its $80m start-up capital already used.
Sama, along with fellow low-cost airline Nas Air, is pressing the government to sell it fuel at the same reduced rate as Saudia, rather than at world market prices. The national carrier currently pays $0.5 a litre for its fuel, compared with the $2.30 a litre Sama pays.
The new low-cost airlines are also struggling with a fare cap imposed on domestic flights in economy class, and are obliged under the terms of their licensing agreements to fly routes to northern cities that are consistently loss-making.
"We recognise that these are lifeline routes, but passenger numbers are extremely low," says Andrew Cowen, chief executive officer at Sama.
"There is no economic return on these flights so the government should subsidise them.
"We are losing between $4,000 and $5,000 a flight on these northern routes, which adds up to $1m a month. Liberalisation was primarily aimed at increasing frequency within Saudi Arabia, but why would investors invest in domestic routes where it is impossible to make money?"
To partly offset its losses on these domestic routes, Sama is expanding its international services, which are exempt from the domestic fare cap. The airline now flies to eight destinations outside the country, recently opening a route to Alexandria in Egypt. However, Cowen makes clear this is not covering all its losses at home.
Although Cowen declined to reveal a precise figure, Sama's chairman and main shareholder, Prince Bandar ibn Khaled al-Faisal, spoke recently of "100 per cent losses".
Cowen says the company's investors are losing patience. "Access to capital is not a problem but the shareholders are not charities," he says. "If the situation is not altered, it may simply be impossible for the business to make money. Why as shareholders would you continue to support the company in that situation?"
Although he believes the government understands the problem, Cowen says the reality facing the company without rapid action is stark.
"The conditions make it impossible to operate on a private sector basis in Saudi Arabia," he says. "We will either have to become an international airline or go out of business."
The General Authority of Civil Aviation (Gaca), which regulates the Saudi airline market, says it is hopeful that a resolution can be reached in the near future.
Mutt
Sama investors lose patience over '100 per cent' losses
Sama shareholders are warning that the airline may be forced to close if Riyadh does not act to reduce the carrier's fuel costs and complete the liberalisation of the kingdom's aviation sector.
Senior investors in the low-cost carrier claim that the government's failure to remove market distortions favouring the national carrier, Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia), are making Sama impossible to run profitably.
The company, which only began operations early last year, is making huge losses, with most of its $80m start-up capital already used.
Sama, along with fellow low-cost airline Nas Air, is pressing the government to sell it fuel at the same reduced rate as Saudia, rather than at world market prices. The national carrier currently pays $0.5 a litre for its fuel, compared with the $2.30 a litre Sama pays.
The new low-cost airlines are also struggling with a fare cap imposed on domestic flights in economy class, and are obliged under the terms of their licensing agreements to fly routes to northern cities that are consistently loss-making.
"We recognise that these are lifeline routes, but passenger numbers are extremely low," says Andrew Cowen, chief executive officer at Sama.
"There is no economic return on these flights so the government should subsidise them.
"We are losing between $4,000 and $5,000 a flight on these northern routes, which adds up to $1m a month. Liberalisation was primarily aimed at increasing frequency within Saudi Arabia, but why would investors invest in domestic routes where it is impossible to make money?"
To partly offset its losses on these domestic routes, Sama is expanding its international services, which are exempt from the domestic fare cap. The airline now flies to eight destinations outside the country, recently opening a route to Alexandria in Egypt. However, Cowen makes clear this is not covering all its losses at home.
Although Cowen declined to reveal a precise figure, Sama's chairman and main shareholder, Prince Bandar ibn Khaled al-Faisal, spoke recently of "100 per cent losses".
Cowen says the company's investors are losing patience. "Access to capital is not a problem but the shareholders are not charities," he says. "If the situation is not altered, it may simply be impossible for the business to make money. Why as shareholders would you continue to support the company in that situation?"
Although he believes the government understands the problem, Cowen says the reality facing the company without rapid action is stark.
"The conditions make it impossible to operate on a private sector basis in Saudi Arabia," he says. "We will either have to become an international airline or go out of business."
The General Authority of Civil Aviation (Gaca), which regulates the Saudi airline market, says it is hopeful that a resolution can be reached in the near future.
Mutt
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Uhhhh WHAT??
Have I missed something??
Quote
"Don't know the inside story of NAS. But I am surprised they have so many troubles. Isn't a certain ex-fighter pilot a partner in the business? You'd think with that influential a figure on board, they're sorted."
What the bloody hell has a fighter pilot got to do with the success of a commercial airline??? Someone for whom the cost of fuel doesn't matter, does not need to be commercially minded and never needs to worry about going out of business...
What's the next cost saving strategy? Single pilot ops?
Grrrrr
Quote
"Don't know the inside story of NAS. But I am surprised they have so many troubles. Isn't a certain ex-fighter pilot a partner in the business? You'd think with that influential a figure on board, they're sorted."
What the bloody hell has a fighter pilot got to do with the success of a commercial airline??? Someone for whom the cost of fuel doesn't matter, does not need to be commercially minded and never needs to worry about going out of business...
What's the next cost saving strategy? Single pilot ops?
Grrrrr
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Him being an-ex pilot has absolutely nothing to do with it, him being one of the most powerful and influential people in Saudi, particularly in aviation and defence, has everything to do with it.
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NAS pilots
Can we get an opinion from a pilot who is currently working for NAS on the A320 or Emb190 side. How are the working conditions, rosters, living conditions or management???
LK
LK
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Hawkprince............
A slight misnomer isn't it. A hawk would imply that you can fly whilst a prince might be taken as someone who is hansome.
How about penguin frog!! And if your 32 i will eat my hat.
Now i have told you before to Fly Ginger
P.S. If you want to remain anon., may i suggest you dont put your location as MALTA you muppett...............kinda gives you away a little
I hope you are well, keep in touch.
How about penguin frog!! And if your 32 i will eat my hat.
Now i have told you before to Fly Ginger
P.S. If you want to remain anon., may i suggest you dont put your location as MALTA you muppett...............kinda gives you away a little
I hope you are well, keep in touch.
...and how about the private airlines in Saudi where one can apply for them