Saudi Arabian ATC
Thread Starter
ZbV
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 799
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From: Samsonite
Saudi Arabian ATC
The other night I heard a JED controller giving hard time to a flight. Rude obnxious, nasty, unprofessional bad mannered and non-standard are a few words that come into to my mind. Very much the same attributes that these people show on all walks of life.
Have I just been in the right place at the right time to hear this type of behaviour from Saudis or is this a more common occurance.
Have I just been in the right place at the right time to hear this type of behaviour from Saudis or is this a more common occurance.
... Not just because you ask him again to confirm..???
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4
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From: Richards Bay, South Africa
Saudi's
Anytime you corner one they will react like that. Their culture revolves a lot around having 'face', and not losing it in the public domain i.e. air traffic control.
Merely 'insinuating' incompetence or mistakes in any PERCEIVED way will lead to a reaction.
Remember, in the 'Magic Kingdom', perception is reality...
Merely 'insinuating' incompetence or mistakes in any PERCEIVED way will lead to a reaction.
Remember, in the 'Magic Kingdom', perception is reality...
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,552
Likes: 25
From: ME
Reminds me of a story where a Saudi crew told Riyadh ATC that they had TCAS traffic, controller told them, no traffic, this was repeated a few times until the crew actually saw the military traffic pass them.
An argument started between the pilot and ATC which ended with the pilot getting called a "son of a b****h"..... Things went very quiet until the crew landed, the pilot then had the ATC arrested for insulting his mother. This turned into a huge saga involving highest level officials, in the end, the ATC had to offer an apology for the insult.
Nothing about the lack of professionalism, but dont ever insult someones mother
Mutt.
An argument started between the pilot and ATC which ended with the pilot getting called a "son of a b****h"..... Things went very quiet until the crew landed, the pilot then had the ATC arrested for insulting his mother. This turned into a huge saga involving highest level officials, in the end, the ATC had to offer an apology for the insult.
Nothing about the lack of professionalism, but dont ever insult someones mother
Mutt.
Last edited by mutt; 23rd November 2007 at 15:05.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 55
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From: High Skies
Most controllers in Jeddah FIR are really in need of big improvement, especially in their attitude. and talk about landing in Jed. Man, their vectoring sucks.
However, the ones in Riyadh are kinda ok....
Uh, well...we'll just fly it off
However, the ones in Riyadh are kinda ok....
Uh, well...we'll just fly it off
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Approaching JED not long ago, the controller asked...
EAN4126, can you maintain 190 knots until 5 miles final?
Replied: 210 if you like, were a TriStar.
ATC: Ah yes, I see you are a TriStar, sure do miss those, maintain high speed, thank you, call the tower.
Saudi ATC is no better nor worse than others in the area.
Ah yes, Captain Berenji...aka, flame 'em out at Philly Berenji
EAN4126, can you maintain 190 knots until 5 miles final?
Replied: 210 if you like, were a TriStar.
ATC: Ah yes, I see you are a TriStar, sure do miss those, maintain high speed, thank you, call the tower.
Saudi ATC is no better nor worse than others in the area.
Ah yes, Captain Berenji...aka, flame 'em out at Philly Berenji
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 15
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From: VOTX
Mr. Mutt sir:
Quote:
Nothing about the lack of professionalism, but dont ever insult someones mother
Kindly provide explanation how it is possible to tell one female camel from the other. Thank you, please
Quote:
Nothing about the lack of professionalism, but dont ever insult someones mother
Kindly provide explanation how it is possible to tell one female camel from the other. Thank you, please
Thread Starter
ZbV
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 799
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From: Samsonite
Hi Mutt.
I have fwd the email address to the person concerned. I've asked him to Email the safety department should he think it is an safety issue as I do see it as one. Thanks for that.
I have fwd the email address to the person concerned. I've asked him to Email the safety department should he think it is an safety issue as I do see it as one. Thanks for that.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14
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From: Shenzen, China
50% Arrogance / 50% Ignorance
The rudeness is almost a daily occurence when flying in Saudi. There are of course some professionals, but as soon as you get away from Riyadh you never know what you are going to get. When asked to report over a position - you may call five or six times with no answer, then a few minutes later the controller will come back and demand an explanation as to why you did not check in.
We've been given a parking position in Jeddah a few times, confirmed the position, taxied to the position and then been screamed at because it was not the right one. The last time it happened I told ground that he should listen to the tape - then nothing but silence. No apologies ever or even the admission that the mistake was in fact theirs. The other day we were given a landing clearance 15 minutes before arrival into a Northern airport, as the tower said that they would be gone to pray at our estimated arrival time... It is a culture suited to the control of camels - not airplanes. Their rudeness and lack of understanding of what it is that they are supposed to be doing is unequaled anywhere else in the world.
We've been given a parking position in Jeddah a few times, confirmed the position, taxied to the position and then been screamed at because it was not the right one. The last time it happened I told ground that he should listen to the tape - then nothing but silence. No apologies ever or even the admission that the mistake was in fact theirs. The other day we were given a landing clearance 15 minutes before arrival into a Northern airport, as the tower said that they would be gone to pray at our estimated arrival time... It is a culture suited to the control of camels - not airplanes. Their rudeness and lack of understanding of what it is that they are supposed to be doing is unequaled anywhere else in the world.
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
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From: Not sure now
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I quite enjoy flying across Saudi Arabia. It's one of the easiest airspaces around. Check in on one end of the FIR; switch frequency halfway across; and then bye bye. Almost always get directs when I ask. Jeddah approach does tend to give a tight vector for 34C, but hey no big deal when you're expecting it.
If you want bad try the Calcutta-Dhaka-Yangon transition. Talking constantly on the radio ( VHF/HF ) for the better part of an hour.
TP
If you want bad try the Calcutta-Dhaka-Yangon transition. Talking constantly on the radio ( VHF/HF ) for the better part of an hour.
TP
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 46
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From: Here and there
Like everywhere you get unpleasant fellows on both ends. However, I have personally found most of the Saudi ATC's over the years to be fairly pleasant and polite. In fact I recently had one of the most friendly and polite ATC's I have ever heard when entering Jeddah airspace coming from the South. We were actually sorry to leave his airspace!
Now the Indian ATC's as someone mentioned..........could start a new thread on those characters!
Now the Indian ATC's as someone mentioned..........could start a new thread on those characters!