Boeing VS Airbus,,,Is it political?
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Boeing VS Airbus,,,Is it political?
It seems that airbus is picking up most orders in dubai airshow. I had a nice conversation with my fellow coworkers regarding this issue at our dispatch office today. One of the captains said,,,"why would the arabs buy airplanes from us (boeing) while we are stealing their oil in middle east".
Any comments regarding my coworkers statement.
I know this website is not suppose to have any political discussiones, but I thought it would nice to see what the rest of the pilots out there think.
Good luck guys,
Any comments regarding my coworkers statement.
I know this website is not suppose to have any political discussiones, but I thought it would nice to see what the rest of the pilots out there think.
Good luck guys,
Your colleague is obviously a highly educated American (not). The ME Airlines bought stacks of Boeings 2 years ago, so what did that mean then??? Airbus has the lead in the sector that the ME buyers want to buy now, the 787 is too small and the 747-8 doesn't do the job required.
The most important thing for ME airlines is the bottom line ££$$$. Me thinks your colleague has never left the USA.
EGGW
The most important thing for ME airlines is the bottom line ££$$$. Me thinks your colleague has never left the USA.
EGGW
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boeing/airbus political ?
Anonymous
It is said that all the gulf countries (except Iran
), are some kind of the modern US colonies.
Many US politicians are always declaring those countries as their best allies (after Israel) in the region, as far as oil is pumped there.(just have a look at US military facilties and equipment )
So i don t see any political reason in the recent airbus vs boeing deal,
Excluding the A380 delivery problems etc, we have to admit a new reality that eads and its subsidary Airbus are now the MAIN actors in acft manufacturing and that boeing leadership is mometarily ( or maybe definitely ) over.
It is said that all the gulf countries (except Iran
), are some kind of the modern US colonies.Many US politicians are always declaring those countries as their best allies (after Israel) in the region, as far as oil is pumped there.(just have a look at US military facilties and equipment )
So i don t see any political reason in the recent airbus vs boeing deal,
Excluding the A380 delivery problems etc, we have to admit a new reality that eads and its subsidary Airbus are now the MAIN actors in acft manufacturing and that boeing leadership is mometarily ( or maybe definitely ) over.
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Boeing VS Airbus
you say that airbus is giving the airlines a good price, but the US dollar is dropping and Euro remains the same. Don't you guys think that boeing would be cheaper to buy???
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EK tasted blood in the A380 deal, I would love to know the concessions they are receiving for taking the aircraft. Figure that they are getting the at 40-60% below list price when all the incentives like additional free training, extended warranties, additional support people, maintenance contact staff,bundled spares, free tooling, hotels for staff on training, salary for staff during the delay that would be flying the aircraft, first c-check maybe? ..... you guess what can be squeezed and it may already be extracted from airbus.
Airbus needs orders this year for the A350 or the aircraft project will fold up because of lack of support. EK and the others have now done the dance and know they can win as the largest customer on A350 in the same way as the A380. I wonder if the new plans to look into manufacturing composite parts in the UAE are also part of the A380/350 deals.
B787 project has the orders needed and the great deals given to the customers at the start of the project are no longer available. Boeing has the start up of production covered and is now selling at something resembling list prices (-10 to 25%). A good indicator of this is EK demanding a 787-10 that is similar in size to a 777-200, Boeing could be figuring they will make more selling high margin 777's than a big fleet of low margin 787 to EK.
Airbus needs orders this year for the A350 or the aircraft project will fold up because of lack of support. EK and the others have now done the dance and know they can win as the largest customer on A350 in the same way as the A380. I wonder if the new plans to look into manufacturing composite parts in the UAE are also part of the A380/350 deals.
B787 project has the orders needed and the great deals given to the customers at the start of the project are no longer available. Boeing has the start up of production covered and is now selling at something resembling list prices (-10 to 25%). A good indicator of this is EK demanding a 787-10 that is similar in size to a 777-200, Boeing could be figuring they will make more selling high margin 777's than a big fleet of low margin 787 to EK.
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you say that airbus is giving the airlines a good price, but the US dollar is dropping and Euro remains the same. Don't you guys think that boeing would be cheaper to buy???
As far as EK and the A350 sale, nothing political there. Airbus had the product that EK wanted and Boeing did not. Emirates has said from the start that they needed a larger airplane than the B787-8/9. Boeing has been reluctant to launch the B787-1000 which would more closely meet Emirates requirement.
I can tell you from personal experience that Emirates is a "bottom line" organization. They will run the numbers and buy whichever airplane they figure will make them more money.
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Boeing has been reluctant to launch the B787-1000 which would more closely meet Emirates requirement.
The profits Boeing will get on more sales 777-200 plus 787-8/9 to other customers at this point are more than the 787-10 profits from EK. Reality sets in the universe does not always rotate around what people in Dubai want.
Airbus is struggling with the A350 and will bend over backwards to get a big order form anyone at this point. EK stepped in to save them again just like the A380. And Yes it will all show in the bottom line for EK.
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Life would be so easy if it was that simple... Dont like America, lets buy Airbus 
Unfortunately its not....
Airbus sell their aircraft in US DOLLARS! They are taking the hit for the currency loss, not the airlines.
As it turned out, Airbus have a first class sales team and are offering excellent packages. Boeing are not as accomodating.
Mutt
Unfortunately its not....
Don't you guys think that boeing would be cheaper to buy???
As it turned out, Airbus have a first class sales team and are offering excellent packages. Boeing are not as accomodating.
Mutt
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I would be willing to bet that Boeing is less inclined to bend over backwards for EK. I respect that, actually. EK can be very demanding when it comes to most things. For example keeping fuel trucks at the aircraft until final ZFW arrives, peculiarities with respect to de-icing, a general acceptance by most ATC that we simply don't do visuals (most EK pilots don't anyhow) and the list goes on.
Considering the problems at Airbus in the past few years with respect to delivery dates and performance of some types such as the A345 and A346, restructuring and their obvious need for a positive result, I suspect EK got a great deal. Considering this and the potential number of aircraft from what will be one of the world's largest airlines, it was a necessity for Airbus to send a signal to all the airlines that EK has confidence in them.
I don't think Boeing had to be quite so motivated. The 777 has been a great success and the newer version 737's as well. The 787 and the new 747 appear to be headed for great success too. I can only imagine the Boeing bosses doing their best to satisfy EK but drawing the line in the sand at some point and considered EK demands to be just a bit much.
Besides it is in EK's best interest to have Airbus and Boeing in a battle to compete for their business, hence the largest 777 fleet and the largest A380 fleet. I am sure they played each company against each other and took the best deal available. I have to admit, EK does some things extremely well and aren't afraid to seen as too demanding.
Considering the problems at Airbus in the past few years with respect to delivery dates and performance of some types such as the A345 and A346, restructuring and their obvious need for a positive result, I suspect EK got a great deal. Considering this and the potential number of aircraft from what will be one of the world's largest airlines, it was a necessity for Airbus to send a signal to all the airlines that EK has confidence in them.
I don't think Boeing had to be quite so motivated. The 777 has been a great success and the newer version 737's as well. The 787 and the new 747 appear to be headed for great success too. I can only imagine the Boeing bosses doing their best to satisfy EK but drawing the line in the sand at some point and considered EK demands to be just a bit much.
Besides it is in EK's best interest to have Airbus and Boeing in a battle to compete for their business, hence the largest 777 fleet and the largest A380 fleet. I am sure they played each company against each other and took the best deal available. I have to admit, EK does some things extremely well and aren't afraid to seen as too demanding.
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,,,"why would the arabs buy airplanes from us (boeing) while we are stealing their oil in middle east".
you say that airbus is giving the airlines a good price, but the US dollar is dropping and Euro remains the same. Don't you guys think that boeing would be cheaper to buy???
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If you look at the news these days it look like the gulf is getting rid of currencies tie withe the dollar and this is why everybody is after airbus the better A/C family with better choice of size
Personal opinion
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The answer to this is very simple. EK, Boeing and Airbus all want to make money.
EK are looking for aircraft that will, a. Do the job required and b. Do it for the right price. Remember back to when the B777-200 came out and EK were asking Boeing for a stretch edition. Boeing at first resisted and then saw the light.. The B777-300 was born.
Boeing also want to make money and will only offer a product that will do so when they are ready. I dont think Boeing are yet ready to produce the 787-10. They will eventually, and when they do you will also find EK buying it. There is no point for EK to buy the 787-8/9 as it is too small. When the stretch is finally announced, Boeing will produce it and EK will take their place in the line (which will be shorter than the present order line). The product has to be in line with EK expansion plans. The 787-10 is not really on the horizon yet. As far as the 747-8 goes, 2 things are being viewed. Firstly, EK want Boeing to stretch the range, as the destinations of LAX and SFO are set for next year (as is Chicago, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Capetown, Durban, Madrid, Barcelona and also possibly for next year Warsaw, St Petersburg and Kiev - I think I got them all!) In addition, LH seem to be driving the 747-8 initial production and want the 747-4 flight deck in the aircraft. EK want the 777 flight deck which would give them the possiblity of CCQ. Where this will end up is anyones guess. But in Standard fashion, Boeing when its ready, will concede and EK will get their machine. Dont write off either the 747-8 and the 787-10 yet. I have a strong feeling they will both appear in the future.
As for Airbus and the huge delivery problems, they have gone back to the drawing board and produced the 350XWB. I am a down and out Boeing man, but I actually think this will be, dare I say it, an excellent aircraft. This will meet the requirements for EK, and it will probably save Airbus and EADS's backside. There will be problems for Airbus with delivery as is normal for them but, I am sure that with this order of 120 of them the price was very well met.
Dont underestimate any of the 3 companies above. Boeing may have walked away with only a $3.5 billion deal this time, whilst Airbus have a $35 billion deal. We have still a huge order with Boeing and a huge amount of money to exchange hands. Boeing could have used this Airshow as a time to consolidate and see what the airlines require. If the demand for the 787 stretch is high enough, believe me they will produce it. Talks between all 3 companies will have taken place and continue to take place. Maybe next year at which ever airshow it is (UK or Paris?) Boeing will get an order.
The only problem facing EK now is where the hell are they going to get the pilots to fly the new orders.......?
EK are looking for aircraft that will, a. Do the job required and b. Do it for the right price. Remember back to when the B777-200 came out and EK were asking Boeing for a stretch edition. Boeing at first resisted and then saw the light.. The B777-300 was born.
Boeing also want to make money and will only offer a product that will do so when they are ready. I dont think Boeing are yet ready to produce the 787-10. They will eventually, and when they do you will also find EK buying it. There is no point for EK to buy the 787-8/9 as it is too small. When the stretch is finally announced, Boeing will produce it and EK will take their place in the line (which will be shorter than the present order line). The product has to be in line with EK expansion plans. The 787-10 is not really on the horizon yet. As far as the 747-8 goes, 2 things are being viewed. Firstly, EK want Boeing to stretch the range, as the destinations of LAX and SFO are set for next year (as is Chicago, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Capetown, Durban, Madrid, Barcelona and also possibly for next year Warsaw, St Petersburg and Kiev - I think I got them all!) In addition, LH seem to be driving the 747-8 initial production and want the 747-4 flight deck in the aircraft. EK want the 777 flight deck which would give them the possiblity of CCQ. Where this will end up is anyones guess. But in Standard fashion, Boeing when its ready, will concede and EK will get their machine. Dont write off either the 747-8 and the 787-10 yet. I have a strong feeling they will both appear in the future.
As for Airbus and the huge delivery problems, they have gone back to the drawing board and produced the 350XWB. I am a down and out Boeing man, but I actually think this will be, dare I say it, an excellent aircraft. This will meet the requirements for EK, and it will probably save Airbus and EADS's backside. There will be problems for Airbus with delivery as is normal for them but, I am sure that with this order of 120 of them the price was very well met.
Dont underestimate any of the 3 companies above. Boeing may have walked away with only a $3.5 billion deal this time, whilst Airbus have a $35 billion deal. We have still a huge order with Boeing and a huge amount of money to exchange hands. Boeing could have used this Airshow as a time to consolidate and see what the airlines require. If the demand for the 787 stretch is high enough, believe me they will produce it. Talks between all 3 companies will have taken place and continue to take place. Maybe next year at which ever airshow it is (UK or Paris?) Boeing will get an order.
The only problem facing EK now is where the hell are they going to get the pilots to fly the new orders.......?
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Well..at the very end...who cares? Boeing.... Airbus.....just pressurised tubes with wing attached that you are underpaid to fly...until you wake up mate...?
A truck driver in europe can make as much money you do..mate....get real!!
hasta luego
A truck driver in europe can make as much money you do..mate....get real!!
hasta luego