Is the EK wage now equal to CX B Scale
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Is the EK wage now equal to CX B Scale
There seems to be a lot of discussion about comparative salaries on the Fragrant Harbour site and lots of disgruntled Cathay pilots after CX management have given a minimal wage increase. I find it hard to believe that our EK take home pay, would come even close to a Cathay B Scale and yes I have seen all of the comparisons of how a pilot who joined Cathay 10 years ago and an EK pilot who joined 10 years ago would compare today, taking into account the quick commands. However, with commands now expected to only come about in EK after 5 or 6 years how would those figures now compare?
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With another 30 or so Boeing 777's to be delivered along with 55 Airbus380's, 10 747-8 and another imminent order for 100 Boeing787/A350, I don't think that it will take around 5-6 years for a command at Emirates!! I think that if you are hanging around the S/O or junior F/O ranks at Cathay then I would seriously think about joining Emirates......just a thought anyway...I have had a couple of calls from Cathay drivers in the past couple of months who have decided to come for the interview.
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And there's a lot of F/Os at EK who joined thinking the same thing as Bypass ratio, but are still sitting in the right seat the far side of 4 years because of the DEC program. Even with at least 1 aircraft arriving every month for as long as I can remember.
Bypass, also remember that all the A332s, A345s and A343s are to go, as are the 772s and 773s, and they are to be replaced by this new order, or so they say. So thats most of the 100 order you are talking about taken care of. To tell people to expect a command before 5 to 6 years now really isn't helping them.
The numbers given on the other Forum also include ERP, which is on a rolling 5yr average, so will start to dwindle soon. It also does not compare apples with apples, as 1hr in the sim for EK earns you zip, but earns you 1.4hrs with CX. There are also the same kind of differences with night flying etc as well which CX pay more for. So, as with any comparision you have to look at what is really being compared.
Interestingly as well, a lot of these SOs etc at CX do not have the hours to join EK. And when they get them at CX as an SO, only 1/3 of those hours go towards their hard time hour requirement for command etc, so they might still get their command in less time if they stay in CX.
Also of interest is that in 1989 (why does that year sound familiar), an EK FO was paid pretty much the same as an A sclae CX FO. In 1999, an EK FO was paid just AED500 more than his mate who joined 10years previous, and he was well behind the CX FO. An EK FO who joins now, even though on some AED4000 per month more than those in 1999, still takes home AUD800 per month less (and AUD2500 less than the guy in 1989!).
Don't you just love it when people mention facts and figures.
Don
The numbers given on the other Forum also include ERP, which is on a rolling 5yr average, so will start to dwindle soon. It also does not compare apples with apples, as 1hr in the sim for EK earns you zip, but earns you 1.4hrs with CX. There are also the same kind of differences with night flying etc as well which CX pay more for. So, as with any comparision you have to look at what is really being compared.
Interestingly as well, a lot of these SOs etc at CX do not have the hours to join EK. And when they get them at CX as an SO, only 1/3 of those hours go towards their hard time hour requirement for command etc, so they might still get their command in less time if they stay in CX.
Also of interest is that in 1989 (why does that year sound familiar), an EK FO was paid pretty much the same as an A sclae CX FO. In 1999, an EK FO was paid just AED500 more than his mate who joined 10years previous, and he was well behind the CX FO. An EK FO who joins now, even though on some AED4000 per month more than those in 1999, still takes home AUD800 per month less (and AUD2500 less than the guy in 1989!).
Don't you just love it when people mention facts and figures.
Don
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Interesting post Don. It appears that a few CX guys are lining themselves up
to go to V Australia.Some are quoting figures of 220-240K.Lets see if any EK pilots will be tempted by this or even Jet*.Most guys you speak to at the moment in Emirates say they aren't interested however with the US$ weakening perhaps the salaries downunder will become more tempting.
I hear the management at Jet* are only interested with a few from each different company.They must be worried that Blue shirts stranglehold on power might be threatened.
to go to V Australia.Some are quoting figures of 220-240K.Lets see if any EK pilots will be tempted by this or even Jet*.Most guys you speak to at the moment in Emirates say they aren't interested however with the US$ weakening perhaps the salaries downunder will become more tempting.
I hear the management at Jet* are only interested with a few from each different company.They must be worried that Blue shirts stranglehold on power might be threatened.
Sorry BusyB, Correct me if I am wrong, but I was of the understanding that 2 pilot longhaul Night ops (most of EK flying) at CX was credited at a greater amount, the same as SIM. Is that correct? At EK you get paid the planned block time, regardless of flight time exceeding this for a part of the year. You get paid zip for your own SIMs. In the good old days (sic) we got paid 2.5hrs for every day of leave, but now we get zip for it. So, you fly your full months 78hrs, then get ya leave, with no overtime etc. In the good old days they would either reduce the flying for that month, by the leave credit, or you got the overtime.
Its also interesting to note, that after the 99 A scale pay cut, they (A scalers) are still ahead of the EK fella that joined at the same time. Did you note that starting EK FO salary over that period increased by only Aed500 per month...whats that, 1000ish honky per month rise in ten years!!!! EK pay rises are a recent thing. And although there has been a rise every year for the past 7 years, a few of these rises were of the 1.5% range. But it is still catching up!! And we dont get the 13th month pay. Not saying all is bad. Just trying to say it as it is.
gj18457, I have heard this rumour of the mid 200s for a V Australia 777 skipper. But when you think a Pornstar skipper is paid mid 100s it seems a bit pie in the sky to me. I do, however, pray to the gaint pilot pay god that it is correct though.
Don
Its also interesting to note, that after the 99 A scale pay cut, they (A scalers) are still ahead of the EK fella that joined at the same time. Did you note that starting EK FO salary over that period increased by only Aed500 per month...whats that, 1000ish honky per month rise in ten years!!!! EK pay rises are a recent thing. And although there has been a rise every year for the past 7 years, a few of these rises were of the 1.5% range. But it is still catching up!! And we dont get the 13th month pay. Not saying all is bad. Just trying to say it as it is.
gj18457, I have heard this rumour of the mid 200s for a V Australia 777 skipper. But when you think a Pornstar skipper is paid mid 100s it seems a bit pie in the sky to me. I do, however, pray to the gaint pilot pay god that it is correct though.
Don
Don,
The factoring is for 2, 3 or 4 crew. nothing different for night flights.
"after the 99 A scale pay cut, they (A scalers) are still ahead of the EK fella that joined at the same time"
probably true of the pay scales but a command time of 10-12 years at CX (plus starting at the bottom of the Captains scale) means that EK pilots will be financially better off.
The factoring is for 2, 3 or 4 crew. nothing different for night flights.
"after the 99 A scale pay cut, they (A scalers) are still ahead of the EK fella that joined at the same time"
probably true of the pay scales but a command time of 10-12 years at CX (plus starting at the bottom of the Captains scale) means that EK pilots will be financially better off.
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Don,
Yes, but they haven't retired Any jets, and the 787/350 replacement is years away. So as they suck captains off the airbus fleet to the 380 fleet, surely there will be an increase in command slots for airbus drivers. Not to mention they are increasing destinations so therefore logically more crew needed. I respectfully suggest that time to command for airbus drivers will reduce to sub 4 years once the fat bus starts arriving next year.
Bypass, also remember that all the A332s, A345s and A343s are to go, as are the 772s and 773s, and they are to be replaced by this new order, or so they say
Very good point Flashy. But Bypass was stating this new rumoured order for 100 plus new airframes was to be in addition to the current fleet. I was suggesting it may be a replacement for the older airframes. You are right, if this new order does come about they wont be delivered till 2013ish (if you believe the media)...thats 5+ years away, the 772s will be how old by then? Until we read it in the Gulf news no-one will know.
We have around 100 airframes in the pax fleet now, so using simple pilot maths, wouldn't we need 200 airframes for a new joiner to get a command? So for that to be in 4 years, we would need some 25 new airframes per year. I would suggest that if the number is less than 25 per year (thats a bit over 2 per month!!!) it might take a wee bit longer than 4 years. This does not include variables like resignations, retirements or DECs of course. Also Bypass has mention 95 new airframes that EK has on order at the moment, so that would suggest if this talked of order for 100 Frames is a replacement order, some guys are already missing out!!!
I still think it would be a very big call to leave CX to come on over to the sand. But wish all that choose to do it all the best.
Don
We have around 100 airframes in the pax fleet now, so using simple pilot maths, wouldn't we need 200 airframes for a new joiner to get a command? So for that to be in 4 years, we would need some 25 new airframes per year. I would suggest that if the number is less than 25 per year (thats a bit over 2 per month!!!) it might take a wee bit longer than 4 years. This does not include variables like resignations, retirements or DECs of course. Also Bypass has mention 95 new airframes that EK has on order at the moment, so that would suggest if this talked of order for 100 Frames is a replacement order, some guys are already missing out!!!
I still think it would be a very big call to leave CX to come on over to the sand. But wish all that choose to do it all the best.
Don
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On the subject of fleet renewal - any substance to the rumour that the older 332's will be replaced by new 333's.... Ostensibly 'cos the cabin's in the 332's are a bit long in the tooth, and they want the 333's with up to date seats and video etc..
On the subject of fleet renewal - any substance to the rumour that the older 332's will be replaced by new 333's....
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Is this right? Not sure numbers have been updated recently.
http://www.askcaptainlim.com/aspilotsalarycathay.htm
If you run the numbers Cathay still wins on basic pay! A first year EK Captain is on about HKG 65k/mth including flying pay = 4 year F/O. A new Cathay Captain is on 50% more.
http://www.askcaptainlim.com/aspilotsalarycathay.htm
If you run the numbers Cathay still wins on basic pay! A first year EK Captain is on about HKG 65k/mth including flying pay = 4 year F/O. A new Cathay Captain is on 50% more.
Yes but in CX as a senior F/O you will earn more than an EK Captain, even as a based F/O. You will fly 2 crew on sectors up to 10 hours at night . I think CX have 3 crew above 8 hours including day time flights. EK do not have basings, CX do if you family crack it and want to go home.
When you finally get the cx command you will be way ahead of anything possibble in EK.
You will live longer working for CX. (pending the pollution problem) plenty of 55 year olds there still.
When you finally get the cx command you will be way ahead of anything possibble in EK.
You will live longer working for CX. (pending the pollution problem) plenty of 55 year olds there still.
