Direct Entry Capt's For GF
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Direct Entry Capt's For GF
Very strong rumours that we will soon be accepting DEC's on all fleets due to the vast numbers of people leaving. Yet, another great example of of the new management's pathetic approach to handling this airline.
Don't know who in their right mind would want to join. Maybe some cropdusters from somewhere or other. As if we have not already had a lowering of the standards here
Don't know who in their right mind would want to join. Maybe some cropdusters from somewhere or other. As if we have not already had a lowering of the standards here
Last edited by Chuck Y; 21st Jul 2007 at 13:18.
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Another 'firefighting' strategy....well, the fire is getting bigger by the day. No doubt they will offer them more than we are getting and who are they going to get anyway...unless Alitalia goes under which it might...
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Just submitting on another subject & this one caught my eye !! Strangely, whenever Gf was in trouble, some major player did go under & GF was swamped with some serious talent !!
Maybe someone has , at last, contained the Board Chairman from running to the Press after every Board meeting resulting in this mass exodus with the current consequence of a shortage looming.
Good luck guys, It was truly enjoyable when I was there & I know of....well ok.....ONE old mate who still wants to stay ! They are not looking after him too cleverly either ! He will soon join the Massalama list.
Maybe someone has , at last, contained the Board Chairman from running to the Press after every Board meeting resulting in this mass exodus with the current consequence of a shortage looming.
Good luck guys, It was truly enjoyable when I was there & I know of....well ok.....ONE old mate who still wants to stay ! They are not looking after him too cleverly either ! He will soon join the Massalama list.
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Standard deal for DEC was in the 80s/90s a 10th year Captains salery to start....plus best accommodation and double allowances.
When I protested I was told...These ex BA Captains aged 55y (already on fully indexed linked pensions) expect more than you ex Dan Air permanent pilots.
A howl of protest and resignations eastwards (again) saw BA arrivals not Training Captains...put on F/0 courses...and the Heathrow Mason supply line dried up...as they did not like it....so they left inside 9 months.
When I protested I was told...These ex BA Captains aged 55y (already on fully indexed linked pensions) expect more than you ex Dan Air permanent pilots.
A howl of protest and resignations eastwards (again) saw BA arrivals not Training Captains...put on F/0 courses...and the Heathrow Mason supply line dried up...as they did not like it....so they left inside 9 months.
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Sorry we are short of Captains especially training Captains....can you fly to Bombay in half an hour...and your leave is cancelled due this situation....
same old story for thirty years....we got used to it.
One Captain was caught at check in and required to operate back in civies whilst returning ex Lhr to Bahrain from leave with his family... all were on confirmed leave tickets....signing the load sheet he asked if his wife and daughter were in first class....reply was ..we offloaded them due fare paying passengers and other staff on higher rated rebate tickets....it is that sort of thing that is the last straw....he got a warning for blackmailing ground staff and refuseing to fly untill they were on board from the L1011 fleet Captain prat...but a very well done Captain and thank you from the Bahraini ops manager.....he always said he never gave his wife and kid any money as this was cost effective just like GF... so they always had to travel with him.....sad story but true.
I went to his funeral..he was 64y...falling out of a tree attached to a chain saw not being able to afford a tree surgeon on his Gf zero pension did not help much...nor did landing on the barbacue....his 75 year old neighbour finished the job for him and told him he was too old to go climbing trees...
this sort of thing happens in Norfolk.
same old story for thirty years....we got used to it.
One Captain was caught at check in and required to operate back in civies whilst returning ex Lhr to Bahrain from leave with his family... all were on confirmed leave tickets....signing the load sheet he asked if his wife and daughter were in first class....reply was ..we offloaded them due fare paying passengers and other staff on higher rated rebate tickets....it is that sort of thing that is the last straw....he got a warning for blackmailing ground staff and refuseing to fly untill they were on board from the L1011 fleet Captain prat...but a very well done Captain and thank you from the Bahraini ops manager.....he always said he never gave his wife and kid any money as this was cost effective just like GF... so they always had to travel with him.....sad story but true.
I went to his funeral..he was 64y...falling out of a tree attached to a chain saw not being able to afford a tree surgeon on his Gf zero pension did not help much...nor did landing on the barbacue....his 75 year old neighbour finished the job for him and told him he was too old to go climbing trees...
this sort of thing happens in Norfolk.
Last edited by scanscanscan; 21st Jul 2007 at 19:52.
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My hope is that if they hire direct entries, they will do so like many other companies, namely, on a temporary basis, through agencies like Parc or Rishworth, 6 month to 1 year contracts, whilst making the effort to upgrade FO's.
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Companies have generally found that hiring DE Captains is more cost effective in the long run, rather than upgrading First Officers.
Does this make the F/O's pleased?
Of course not, but when 'management' stuffs it up, direct hire is often times the only option left.
Sad, but true....positively.
Does this make the F/O's pleased?
Of course not, but when 'management' stuffs it up, direct hire is often times the only option left.
Sad, but true....positively.
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only option left.....
How an airline that is downsizing with a surplus of 80 pilots(situation 2 months ago) could possibly have as the only option to hire DECs? The notice period is 3 months, time enough to promote FOs, who by the way are 8+ years around and still commited in spite of being so much disrespected along the years. Hiring DECs now would be another slap in the face for us, the very last one in my case.
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The problem is if you release FOs for up-grade it will create a shortage in the RHS. With the huge attrition rate amongst the FO ranks at the moment i can't see them releasing any for upgrade training. This in turn will have the effect of pissing more FOs off so more will resign. Round and round we go.
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noflare u r absolutely correct! nobody in his right mind will come over!
but having said that,it does not look good at all especially with ad resigning now and the board running things..like i said earlier on they dont have a clue about anything relating to aviation
but having said that,it does not look good at all especially with ad resigning now and the board running things..like i said earlier on they dont have a clue about anything relating to aviation
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Yeah, thanks for implying that I am both naive and a dreamer, Bombay HF, I was mearly reflecting my hopes.
Today at Gulf Air we have guys with up to 8 or 9 years with the company, who meet the requirements for upgrade, who have been told that upgrades are frozen.
It is just my observation that the best companies (the ones one really wants to spend a career with) end up getting their Captains from within. How you feel about Gulf Air as an attractive employer is besides the point. However, the airlines who are shortsighted hire direct entry, and they are also the ones who lose staff loyalty because the signal is "leave us, come back when you are a Captain."
In a way, they shoot themselves in the foot, by providing fodder for Low-Cost airlines. Few pilots see low-cost carriers at attractive career options, but it is a great way to get time and quick command (with the experience) and then go to some DEC entry. These are the same airlines that threaten legacy carriers. Perhaps an oversimplified view, but I think there is some truth to this.
In any case, Gulf Air may be needing to hire 2 pilots for every vacancy in any case-- one DEC, and another FO, because the signal being sent is that payment of dues mean nothing-- when your turn comes to upgrade, after years of service and riding up through the seniority (and paying the proverbial "dues" and you meet the qualifications, well, you might not be upgraded anyhow because the Company feels it is cheaper and easier for them not to.
For the FO, this means a lack of income over the course of their career. Strong signals sent by the Company.
Today at Gulf Air we have guys with up to 8 or 9 years with the company, who meet the requirements for upgrade, who have been told that upgrades are frozen.
It is just my observation that the best companies (the ones one really wants to spend a career with) end up getting their Captains from within. How you feel about Gulf Air as an attractive employer is besides the point. However, the airlines who are shortsighted hire direct entry, and they are also the ones who lose staff loyalty because the signal is "leave us, come back when you are a Captain."
In a way, they shoot themselves in the foot, by providing fodder for Low-Cost airlines. Few pilots see low-cost carriers at attractive career options, but it is a great way to get time and quick command (with the experience) and then go to some DEC entry. These are the same airlines that threaten legacy carriers. Perhaps an oversimplified view, but I think there is some truth to this.
In any case, Gulf Air may be needing to hire 2 pilots for every vacancy in any case-- one DEC, and another FO, because the signal being sent is that payment of dues mean nothing-- when your turn comes to upgrade, after years of service and riding up through the seniority (and paying the proverbial "dues" and you meet the qualifications, well, you might not be upgraded anyhow because the Company feels it is cheaper and easier for them not to.
For the FO, this means a lack of income over the course of their career. Strong signals sent by the Company.
Last edited by Panama Jack; 23rd Jul 2007 at 14:54.
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Unfortunately I think when most companies anywhere in the world hire DEC's they are just trying in desperation to fill seats as trng depts and facilities are stretched too thin to accomodate both new hires, and then the upgrades, and the ongoing recurrent training...GF did in fact over the last few years upgrade many onto the 767 fleet, and as well as the 320 if I recall...
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Sure Ironbutt, point well taken. And Gulf Air still has a list of "temporary" DEC's, "temporary" in the same sense as the "temporary" income tax was introduced in the United States over half a century ago.
The fact of the matter is, the message companies send is "if you want to be a Captain, your better off leaving, getting your command elsewhere, then reapply." Hence, company has an unstable workforce, as many DEC's swap companies too-- the sacrifice is less as there is no "starting from the bottom."
I can understand Captains' points of view on this, and if I were a Captain I would be a big advocate of hiring "experienced" DEC's, but I am not. And as an FO this is the signals that I read from companies that hire DEC's.
The fact of the matter is, the message companies send is "if you want to be a Captain, your better off leaving, getting your command elsewhere, then reapply." Hence, company has an unstable workforce, as many DEC's swap companies too-- the sacrifice is less as there is no "starting from the bottom."
I can understand Captains' points of view on this, and if I were a Captain I would be a big advocate of hiring "experienced" DEC's, but I am not. And as an FO this is the signals that I read from companies that hire DEC's.
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May be a bit pedantic...but a DEC is to my knowledge, a person hired as an "employee" of GF or any other carrier...EK, QR, EY to name a few...what was hired on to the 330/340 fleet were "temporary
" contract capts whom in fact are employees of an agency..DPI I think...neither of which is the optimum solution admittedly...not defending the practice, even as I benefitted from it myself..what can I say???
" contract capts whom in fact are employees of an agency..DPI I think...neither of which is the optimum solution admittedly...not defending the practice, even as I benefitted from it myself..what can I say???
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RHS flying
Bombay HF,
Captains can fly in the RHS, thus I am sure the FOs who have the minimuns stated in the OM-A wouldnt mind to fly in the RHS receiving a CP salary and logging the hours they are operating as PIC. This could be a alternative while they recruit FOs. Plus they will gain commited new Captains that also will be bonded for the CP training so they will stay for at least another couple of years instead of having experienced FOs leaving in a couple of months because they have been systematic bypassed...
Captains can fly in the RHS, thus I am sure the FOs who have the minimuns stated in the OM-A wouldnt mind to fly in the RHS receiving a CP salary and logging the hours they are operating as PIC. This could be a alternative while they recruit FOs. Plus they will gain commited new Captains that also will be bonded for the CP training so they will stay for at least another couple of years instead of having experienced FOs leaving in a couple of months because they have been systematic bypassed...
