Must see for EK pilots - Income protection issue
Join Date: May 2007
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TopCover & Peers
Hi - you mentioned TopCover and how to find out information? Well that is easy - just look.
You also said you'd like to support something run by your peers.
The IPEP scheme is a group of your peers trying to run an affinity group to access properly regulated and secure insurance for pilots.
The AIG TopCover policy was originally designed by and for your peers - the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association ( Cathay's union) and was initially insured by Lloyds in London. It moved to AIG when it became bigger and more successful.
So: TopCover is designed and initiated by pilots, has proved to be such a success it is now backed by the world's largest insurer, and is made available in Emirates via IPEP ( Income Protection for Emirates Pilots) which is a voluntary 'club' that was formed by volunteers specifically for the benefit of EK pilots ( and pre-dates EPC I think).
I am not sure what else you could hope for really??
TopCover has been available for EK pilots for 6 years, and it has not been pushed as hard as LIPS. It is and was always meant to be voluntary and offer pilots access and choice to a world class secure product. It is up to pilots to make a good decision.
We make vital decisions every day. Why take unecessary risks?
You also said you'd like to support something run by your peers.
The IPEP scheme is a group of your peers trying to run an affinity group to access properly regulated and secure insurance for pilots.
The AIG TopCover policy was originally designed by and for your peers - the Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association ( Cathay's union) and was initially insured by Lloyds in London. It moved to AIG when it became bigger and more successful.
So: TopCover is designed and initiated by pilots, has proved to be such a success it is now backed by the world's largest insurer, and is made available in Emirates via IPEP ( Income Protection for Emirates Pilots) which is a voluntary 'club' that was formed by volunteers specifically for the benefit of EK pilots ( and pre-dates EPC I think).
I am not sure what else you could hope for really??
TopCover has been available for EK pilots for 6 years, and it has not been pushed as hard as LIPS. It is and was always meant to be voluntary and offer pilots access and choice to a world class secure product. It is up to pilots to make a good decision.
We make vital decisions every day. Why take unecessary risks?
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Shock wave you have made this thread fun, so thanks for that. I might point out that no one probably knew who you were until you went ballistic at "not from here". And was that a threat of legal action I saw buried in you last post? Poetry..please more.
Bondy, Top Cover is at least as good a policy as other mainstream policies. But by what measure do you access it as being "...more successful" and successful for whom...AIG..???
Bondy, Top Cover is at least as good a policy as other mainstream policies. But by what measure do you access it as being "...more successful" and successful for whom...AIG..???
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Ok let's have an answer to the last question asked, as many other have been answered:
Does the EPC, who takes our UAE money have a trade license to operate here in the UAE? Is it even applicable?
If yes then fine if not, then why not? perhaps a question or two to the relevant authorities might actually clear up the whole mess one way or the other.
To answer the question I have both TOPCOVER and LIPS, why, who cares, I don't give a flying f@ck one way or the other, I just do, if LIPS is illegal and it is determined the EPC is as well, then we have a can of worms on our hands don't we
Dooner
Does the EPC, who takes our UAE money have a trade license to operate here in the UAE? Is it even applicable?
If yes then fine if not, then why not? perhaps a question or two to the relevant authorities might actually clear up the whole mess one way or the other.
To answer the question I have both TOPCOVER and LIPS, why, who cares, I don't give a flying f@ck one way or the other, I just do, if LIPS is illegal and it is determined the EPC is as well, then we have a can of worms on our hands don't we
Dooner
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dooner
I believe that the EPC and FACE are both Emirates approved staff social clubs and they were formed and exist with the support of the company. The company facilitated the opening of Bank accounts and allowed the salary deductions to enable both clubs to operate.
One major difference between the two, is that IFS control and manages the day to day running of FACE while the EPC has to date been left alone to manage their own affairs. Neither have Dubai trade licences and as long as they don't engage in blatent commercial activities, they will be left alone.
I wouldn't be surprised if the company is closely following the LIPS fiasco on this site.
I believe that the EPC and FACE are both Emirates approved staff social clubs and they were formed and exist with the support of the company. The company facilitated the opening of Bank accounts and allowed the salary deductions to enable both clubs to operate.
One major difference between the two, is that IFS control and manages the day to day running of FACE while the EPC has to date been left alone to manage their own affairs. Neither have Dubai trade licences and as long as they don't engage in blatent commercial activities, they will be left alone.
I wouldn't be surprised if the company is closely following the LIPS fiasco on this site.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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It is strange you say Topcover is not pushed as hard as LIPS.I can recall many occasions recieving brochures in my box and even emails to my work address from NF pushing the product.Not sure if the EPC is legal though.Maybe they will shut it down as well.However I dont think recruitment will like that though.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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For gods sake guys the EPC is a club which we pay 50 DHS a month each for the privilage. For this you get benefits worth thousands and thousands of Dirhams
and is run by a bunch of guys who get very little thanks for their efforts.
Don't compare LIPS to EPC they are at opposite ends of the spectrum EPC is approved by Emirates as it is a CLUB and thats why they allow salary deductions.
If LIPS was approved by Emirates they would allow salary deductions however as things stand at the moment that is not going to happen.
and is run by a bunch of guys who get very little thanks for their efforts.Don't compare LIPS to EPC they are at opposite ends of the spectrum EPC is approved by Emirates as it is a CLUB and thats why they allow salary deductions.
If LIPS was approved by Emirates they would allow salary deductions however as things stand at the moment that is not going to happen.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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It's been awfully quiet. Still waiting for something a bit more "official" than the current pay scheme to an individual's checking account. What concerns me with this type of arrangement (maybe it was always thus), who has access to this account (only AB?), what would happen if for some unforeseen circumstance prevented AB from accessing his account? At the least it would seem that a separate account could be set up with a "board of directors" that would have oversight and access to the account.
This has nothing to do with trust, but rather oversight and access. Anybody heard anything other than the email sent a few months ago?
This has nothing to do with trust, but rather oversight and access. Anybody heard anything other than the email sent a few months ago?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I think I saw AB from a distance yesterday.I should have asked him how many cheques have arrived in his box.I for one am no longer going to continue
with the LIPS scheme.The big question will be will I get any part of my contributions back.Maybe the deal will be that we each get a day out on "sweet lips" as payment.
with the LIPS scheme.The big question will be will I get any part of my contributions back.Maybe the deal will be that we each get a day out on "sweet lips" as payment.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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well the one thing is for certain after reading through these posts I think NF and A380megacamel will be at the bar giving each other a good pat on the back for a "job well done" with their contribution to the end of LIPS (if that comes to pass) and I have absolutely no doubt the 2 of them will be there again to tear down anything else that may come along in the future, NF I can understand because of his personal committment to Topcover, fair enough, as for the megamoron....
I just find it sad that we always try to tear down anything that guys have worked hard to put together for the benefit of their colleagues. I don't see anyone offering any suggestions as to how to move forward......
Lets face it unless your medical condition is "cut and dry" then you will have to fight like hell and as has been mentioned on other forum threads, you may have to threaten with legal action, whether it is Topcover or LIPS, to see any benefits and yes there are plenty of examples around the industry to show this.
So either put up a solution or shut your friggin hole, I have forwaded a option to Andy for an Investment firm here in Dubai, with which many of the EK pilot group already deal with, it may work, it may not but at least there are options being tried before it is sh@t-canned altogether.
Dooner
I just find it sad that we always try to tear down anything that guys have worked hard to put together for the benefit of their colleagues. I don't see anyone offering any suggestions as to how to move forward......
Lets face it unless your medical condition is "cut and dry" then you will have to fight like hell and as has been mentioned on other forum threads, you may have to threaten with legal action, whether it is Topcover or LIPS, to see any benefits and yes there are plenty of examples around the industry to show this.
So either put up a solution or shut your friggin hole
, I have forwaded a option to Andy for an Investment firm here in Dubai, with which many of the EK pilot group already deal with, it may work, it may not but at least there are options being tried before it is sh@t-canned altogether.Dooner
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Easy Dooner,
I'm on your side. I think the majority of guys are taking a wait and see attitude. I agree with your assesment that LIPS could and should be, IMHO, the preferred scheme. Perhaps this bump in the road is just what is needed to get the proper checks and balances for a plan that probably will continue to grow and to make it more transparent. Any plan should be able weather some hard scrutiny by its members. And I am sure AB would welcome it. It would only benefit the plan. Trust but verify........
Around 25% of the pilots here are members of LIPS. I believe this is a great scheme and we should continue to support it. What is desired is more communication at this juncture. I guess we all thought there was some oversight by the EPC committee, at least I did. This is just getting too big for one individual to take it upon himself. Get a web site, get a committee, get an accounting firm. That should make everyone feel much better. The money is there to accomplish this. And then....
I'm on your side. I think the majority of guys are taking a wait and see attitude. I agree with your assesment that LIPS could and should be, IMHO, the preferred scheme. Perhaps this bump in the road is just what is needed to get the proper checks and balances for a plan that probably will continue to grow and to make it more transparent. Any plan should be able weather some hard scrutiny by its members. And I am sure AB would welcome it. It would only benefit the plan. Trust but verify........
Around 25% of the pilots here are members of LIPS. I believe this is a great scheme and we should continue to support it. What is desired is more communication at this juncture. I guess we all thought there was some oversight by the EPC committee, at least I did. This is just getting too big for one individual to take it upon himself. Get a web site, get a committee, get an accounting firm. That should make everyone feel much better. The money is there to accomplish this. And then....
Join Date: May 2007
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dooner et al,
My motivation from the beginning has been to highlight a poorly managed scheme that potentially exposed the EPC membership and committee to financial liability. As an EPC member I didn't feel that this was right and I believe my concern (and others) was confirmed in a letter from a lawyer the EPC committee had consulted. Perhaps the EPC should post the letter on the EPC website to clear up any doubt.
I'm glad there has been a discussion and I hope that this has been a catalyst for AB to get his affairs in order. I don't wish to see over a quarter of the EK pilots lose money in a failed scheme while presumably AB would continue to receive directors and admin fees until all the remaining funds dried up.
Disclosure - I have Top Cover (for now), I have no affiliation with NF, I'm an EPC member.
My motivation from the beginning has been to highlight a poorly managed scheme that potentially exposed the EPC membership and committee to financial liability. As an EPC member I didn't feel that this was right and I believe my concern (and others) was confirmed in a letter from a lawyer the EPC committee had consulted. Perhaps the EPC should post the letter on the EPC website to clear up any doubt.
I'm glad there has been a discussion and I hope that this has been a catalyst for AB to get his affairs in order. I don't wish to see over a quarter of the EK pilots lose money in a failed scheme while presumably AB would continue to receive directors and admin fees until all the remaining funds dried up.
Disclosure - I have Top Cover (for now), I have no affiliation with NF, I'm an EPC member.
Well since MP is the fella that conceived, negotiated and started EPC, I guess we should all be saying thanks for all your hard work on our behalf.
Good work MP and thanks mate.
Don
Good work MP and thanks mate.
Don
Join Date: May 2005
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New Email in portal boxes trying to pull poeple across to the dark side. Hey just trying to see what its all about and send name and contact etc to them and the "oh so superior professional service server crashes"!
Server Error in '/colemontdxb/TopCover' Application
Server Error in '/colemontdxb/TopCover' Application
Join Date: Dec 2006
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No. 
AB still need to sort out this. He promised that he would sort out an acceptable payment option but is only accepting cheques in his personal name. This is not acceptable.
Where's the promised audit?
Where's the promised improvement in communication?
Where's the promised website?
Where's our money?
AB still need to sort out this. He promised that he would sort out an acceptable payment option but is only accepting cheques in his personal name. This is not acceptable.
Where's the promised audit?
Where's the promised improvement in communication?
Where's the promised website?
Where's our money?
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Still got mine, he's not getting cheques in his personal account.
The longer this goes on, the more it smells. Which is not to say it is wrong, just that it needs to be sorted out soon. Like yesterday!
The longer this goes on, the more it smells. Which is not to say it is wrong, just that it needs to be sorted out soon. Like yesterday!