"Training Pay" for ATC contracts
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Training Pay" for ATC contracts
I'm looking at taking an ATCO position in the Middle East, and one possibility sounds quite intriguing, but they are offering an initial "training pay", about 2/3 of the promised pay rate. I had not encountered this kind of structure before. Is this at all customary with Middle East contract ATCO positions? I shouldn't think experienced ATCOs would be brought in at a "training" rate - makes me wonder if the training to validate on the positions needed to get full pay might inexplicably get delayed a bit!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FS3, wot playing hard or training pay?
I know that my playing hard ledger outweighs all other considerations
JT, is there any difference b/n clean and dirty?
HW UAE Area stopped training wages for expats nearly three years ago, you simply could not afford to come here if you had to live on a training wage
I know that my playing hard ledger outweighs all other considerations
JT, is there any difference b/n clean and dirty?
HW UAE Area stopped training wages for expats nearly three years ago, you simply could not afford to come here if you had to live on a training wage
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure how asking about a training wage system translates into me not wanting to work hard... I have no fear of work, only fly-by-night contractors who don't appear to have the depth of experience in the field that SERCO and others do, and are offering something less than the pay that was mentioned very prominently in their advertising. And my question is answered, this does not appear to be common practice at present.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the Dog house
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HW.
In the case that you allude to I think the big issue is Motivation. This new contract will need to get up and running quickly to meet handover deadlines etc, otherwise finacial penalties may apply. If staff were just paid the going rate - rated or unrated - there wouldnt be the urgency from the employee to get all his/ her ratings quickly. No matter how well intentioned an individual may be within a training system, other factors come to bear and performance can suffer. In a case such as the contract that I think you are talking about, if one or more dont validate, then this may put an unacceptable pressure on an alrerady pressurised roster. After all the roster will be made up of people all starting the job fairly close together with a wide range of experience and differing expectations regarding the Modus Operandi (all very stressful). It wont initially be one based on the usual hierachy of experience and standardisation. So if you are confident in your own abilities and "trust" that the training system will give you a "fair go" the issue of training pay shouldnt worry you. Get there, get trained, pull your weight on the roster and get the just rewards. As far as I know TP as such is not advertised too much in the civil ATC world unless you are an ex mil controller looking to crosstrain. And then its often done as many Mils in their late 30's alrerady have a pension coming in when tey leave the service (eg RAF FLTLT APPROX A$25000+ after 16 years service).
Good luck if you throw your headset in the ring.
DogGone
In the case that you allude to I think the big issue is Motivation. This new contract will need to get up and running quickly to meet handover deadlines etc, otherwise finacial penalties may apply. If staff were just paid the going rate - rated or unrated - there wouldnt be the urgency from the employee to get all his/ her ratings quickly. No matter how well intentioned an individual may be within a training system, other factors come to bear and performance can suffer. In a case such as the contract that I think you are talking about, if one or more dont validate, then this may put an unacceptable pressure on an alrerady pressurised roster. After all the roster will be made up of people all starting the job fairly close together with a wide range of experience and differing expectations regarding the Modus Operandi (all very stressful). It wont initially be one based on the usual hierachy of experience and standardisation. So if you are confident in your own abilities and "trust" that the training system will give you a "fair go" the issue of training pay shouldnt worry you. Get there, get trained, pull your weight on the roster and get the just rewards. As far as I know TP as such is not advertised too much in the civil ATC world unless you are an ex mil controller looking to crosstrain. And then its often done as many Mils in their late 30's alrerady have a pension coming in when tey leave the service (eg RAF FLTLT APPROX A$25000+ after 16 years service).
Good luck if you throw your headset in the ring.
DogGone
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UAE
Age: 63
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Training times
If you are alluding to the gig to the north east of the gulf, there is another consideration....
The initial training wage, before you get the first step up, then the mid wage, that you get until you gain ALL the required ratings.
Who knows if and when you would be released to do the rest of the training...it cuts both ways and the longer you spend without the full book, the more money the contracter makes out of your being there.
just a thought
The initial training wage, before you get the first step up, then the mid wage, that you get until you gain ALL the required ratings.
Who knows if and when you would be released to do the rest of the training...it cuts both ways and the longer you spend without the full book, the more money the contracter makes out of your being there.
just a thought
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Divingduck,
That's exactly how my present employer works, and thus the reason for my concern! It may well be completely misplaced, but I've been looking around at jobs in that area of the world, and none of them came with a "training pay" status. It may not mean anything, but then again, I'd be an idiot not to be asking questions.
Jors,
Thanks for the advice. I am more than happy to plunge full ahead and work as hard as necessary to be validated. I'm at my fourth ATC facility after 23 years, training sucks as we all know, and I would just want to get to it, get finished and talk to airplanes.
Asia Minor, whatever, bear in mind it's closer for me to go west to get to the east! And I didn't see a southwest asia conference! If I've offended your geographic sensibilities, accept my apologies!
That's exactly how my present employer works, and thus the reason for my concern! It may well be completely misplaced, but I've been looking around at jobs in that area of the world, and none of them came with a "training pay" status. It may not mean anything, but then again, I'd be an idiot not to be asking questions.
Jors,
Thanks for the advice. I am more than happy to plunge full ahead and work as hard as necessary to be validated. I'm at my fourth ATC facility after 23 years, training sucks as we all know, and I would just want to get to it, get finished and talk to airplanes.
Asia Minor, whatever, bear in mind it's closer for me to go west to get to the east! And I didn't see a southwest asia conference! If I've offended your geographic sensibilities, accept my apologies!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Away from home
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hold West,
I personally think it's rediculous if you don't get paid in full! If you have the previous experience Serco etc. wants, then they have to pay the price. If you don't then fair enough... First time I've heard about such a thing being used... look at OMDB or OMAA before making your final decision.
See ya.
I personally think it's rediculous if you don't get paid in full! If you have the previous experience Serco etc. wants, then they have to pay the price. If you don't then fair enough... First time I've heard about such a thing being used... look at OMDB or OMAA before making your final decision.
See ya.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bat,
I've been e-mailing with Steve P. at Bahrain for a while now.
The potential $$ in that dry, hot place NW of Pakistan is quite a bit greater, and it sounds like a big challenge, which I could use.
Truth be known, I'm waiting to hear on a third place, much, much hotter yet - and not just in terms of temperature. Contract there is supposed to be awarded on Thursday, so I'm on the edge in several ways.
Thanks,
HW
I've been e-mailing with Steve P. at Bahrain for a while now.
The potential $$ in that dry, hot place NW of Pakistan is quite a bit greater, and it sounds like a big challenge, which I could use.
Truth be known, I'm waiting to hear on a third place, much, much hotter yet - and not just in terms of temperature. Contract there is supposed to be awarded on Thursday, so I'm on the edge in several ways.
Thanks,
HW
