Captain America and more Emirates P.R.
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Talking about domain experience, here is an up to date list of our destinations, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_destinations If you are bored count the Continents, Countries, languages, FIR's, regulators, war zones and members of the axis of evil 
Edited with a link instead of a long list, due to comments below
Edited with a link instead of a long list, due to comments below
Last edited by ruserious; 14th Feb 2007 at 04:56.
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Been done before...
<<....but it would appear that the English and Australians kept the pay very low for a long time by turning up in huge numbers.>>
The same was true at SQ in the late 1970's, and it lasted quite a long time.
Wherever the Brits (especially) have worked, the wages are many times less than satisfactory.
Hardly surprising.
The same was true at SQ in the late 1970's, and it lasted quite a long time.
Wherever the Brits (especially) have worked, the wages are many times less than satisfactory.
Hardly surprising.
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ruserious,
rufrigginserious? http://www.nwa.com/travel/world/from...on_search.html Take a look, pal, at the NWA destinations. Do you really think this guy only flew DC-9s for his entire career? Using your logic then there should be NO upgrades here unless you have flown captain on the Boeing or Airbus previously in the theaters you mention. And whether or not a U2 pilot has what it takes.......He probably has forgotten more about flying than you will ever know. Give it up, ruserious, no one will ever be good enough or qualified enough for your little prejudices.
rufrigginserious? http://www.nwa.com/travel/world/from...on_search.html Take a look, pal, at the NWA destinations. Do you really think this guy only flew DC-9s for his entire career? Using your logic then there should be NO upgrades here unless you have flown captain on the Boeing or Airbus previously in the theaters you mention. And whether or not a U2 pilot has what it takes.......He probably has forgotten more about flying than you will ever know. Give it up, ruserious, no one will ever be good enough or qualified enough for your little prejudices.
Last edited by TangoUniform; 14th Feb 2007 at 01:25.
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Ruserious and others,
While I am no friend of the DEC program at all, (I am totally opposed to it), constant ranting about this American has only flown DC_9's around the US etc smacks of ignorance. Not being from the US I have a friend at Northwest who is now an A320 Captain. In a previous life (as an FO, SO) he has flown internationally on wide body aircraft, to a large destination base. In fact I met him at an international destination and ruined his liver(remember those days?) These guys probably also have more high altitude/adverse,cold weather experience than our company put together. Everyone has something to offer/add to all of us.
Guys get over your prejudice and get on with it. When you came here (from your LCC - oops I'm being prejudiced) did you have the relevant experience? I didn't think so. DO your job as the professional that I hope you are and get on with it. When you fly with a DEC who has never flown through Nicosia, help him out - you are on the flight deck too. When you got here the Captains you flew with helped and guided you in unfamiliar areas. Guys, don't slate others' abilities/character etc when you know nothing about them. Lets stand together (I doubt it's possible) as flightcrew and ensure a safe, professional environment.
As a closer - not one person in this company when they leave EK will have the slightest compunction about going to a new company as a DEC, be it Korean, Easyjet, Jetstar, Jet Airways, China Air etc etc. You know this to be true. The company is at fault, not the individual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take care out there and watch your backs fellas. The little knives are sharp!
Jumbo
While I am no friend of the DEC program at all, (I am totally opposed to it), constant ranting about this American has only flown DC_9's around the US etc smacks of ignorance. Not being from the US I have a friend at Northwest who is now an A320 Captain. In a previous life (as an FO, SO) he has flown internationally on wide body aircraft, to a large destination base. In fact I met him at an international destination and ruined his liver(remember those days?) These guys probably also have more high altitude/adverse,cold weather experience than our company put together. Everyone has something to offer/add to all of us.
Guys get over your prejudice and get on with it. When you came here (from your LCC - oops I'm being prejudiced) did you have the relevant experience? I didn't think so. DO your job as the professional that I hope you are and get on with it. When you fly with a DEC who has never flown through Nicosia, help him out - you are on the flight deck too. When you got here the Captains you flew with helped and guided you in unfamiliar areas. Guys, don't slate others' abilities/character etc when you know nothing about them. Lets stand together (I doubt it's possible) as flightcrew and ensure a safe, professional environment.
As a closer - not one person in this company when they leave EK will have the slightest compunction about going to a new company as a DEC, be it Korean, Easyjet, Jetstar, Jet Airways, China Air etc etc. You know this to be true. The company is at fault, not the individual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take care out there and watch your backs fellas. The little knives are sharp!
Jumbo
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When you came here (from your LCC - oops I'm being prejudiced) did you have the relevant experience?
)While there is no doubt you can name plenty of DC9 Captains who have significant international experience, the FACT is the vast majority of DEC's arriving here do not. Ask any F/O who has to fly with them just how much support they have to give. While some support is inevitable in a new domain, the Captain needs to have relevant domain experience and be the quality control on the aircraft. The reason for this is simply, he may not always get an F/O who is experienced on the route, network or aircraft.
Fundamentally its all about situation awareness and decision making. How can you make good decisions in a challenging environment, without significant domain experience. Again just ask your president
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I don't know this guy. I have no idea what his experience level is, and I will not attack someone for joining EK as a DEC. If somebody is against this whole DEC stuff, hell, it will be me. But why blame the guys for taking a shot at a DEC position if one is being offered. Again, (how many time has this been written before?) the only one to blame is the company for offering the DEC positions!!
ruserious, I do get you. Actually, I completely agree with you.
What is the relevant experience of Capt. AMerica? Think he was briefly a FO on the 767, flying across the US, coast to coast, probably with the odd trip ALL WAY into Mexico!! And... erh... that's it!
Or do you guys remember that Brazilian guy who had a hard GPWS in Nairobi about 2 years ago... think he wasn't used to work with Jep plates and found himself very close to that mountain just left of centerline on the 06. (Coming in from Entebbe).
Or how many of us FO's have felt ashamed by the lack of captaincy shown at any European outstation where de-icing/anti-icing was required?
What about this DEC B777, young guy, never flew anything else then Air Berlin B737. WHat's he doing in OUR left seat?
But although I get completely p1$$3d off by this, I still can't blame the individual. It's different though when one of these DEC's starts giving interviews with a load of BS, (Which floor is the concierge level anyway???), trying to lure his countrymen into EK based on lies, just for personal benefits. I did have a personal discussion with Capt America about the DEC program, and he does absolutely disgust me. He actually believes he it God's gift to EK flight ops, and we are in need of his (in my opinion lack of) experience!
Again, I can't find anything of that in this interview, just an opinion about life in Dubai, and he obviously likes it here...
I do wish to find that blog though.... Anyone????
MR8
ruserious, I do get you. Actually, I completely agree with you.
What is the relevant experience of Capt. AMerica? Think he was briefly a FO on the 767, flying across the US, coast to coast, probably with the odd trip ALL WAY into Mexico!! And... erh... that's it!
Or do you guys remember that Brazilian guy who had a hard GPWS in Nairobi about 2 years ago... think he wasn't used to work with Jep plates and found himself very close to that mountain just left of centerline on the 06. (Coming in from Entebbe).
Or how many of us FO's have felt ashamed by the lack of captaincy shown at any European outstation where de-icing/anti-icing was required?
What about this DEC B777, young guy, never flew anything else then Air Berlin B737. WHat's he doing in OUR left seat?
But although I get completely p1$$3d off by this, I still can't blame the individual. It's different though when one of these DEC's starts giving interviews with a load of BS, (Which floor is the concierge level anyway???), trying to lure his countrymen into EK based on lies, just for personal benefits. I did have a personal discussion with Capt America about the DEC program, and he does absolutely disgust me. He actually believes he it God's gift to EK flight ops, and we are in need of his (in my opinion lack of) experience!
Again, I can't find anything of that in this interview, just an opinion about life in Dubai, and he obviously likes it here...
I do wish to find that blog though.... Anyone????
MR8
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Isn't there a thing called "confidential crew performance report" or similar?
As long as this wh****r, or any low performing DEC, doesn't get loads of such, there's only us to blame. Admittedly it's not a fine thing to do, but should prove more effective than just bitching around here. If there's hard facts, we (and i include myself) should have the balls to speak up.
Just my 5 cents.
As long as this wh****r, or any low performing DEC, doesn't get loads of such, there's only us to blame. Admittedly it's not a fine thing to do, but should prove more effective than just bitching around here. If there's hard facts, we (and i include myself) should have the balls to speak up.
Just my 5 cents.
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snitch??
china,
I'm not going to report someone behind his back to the company because he isn't the smooth operator I expect him to be... You can only use those things when:
1. something went quite wrong
2. you did confront the guy with your problems towards the situation
3. he doesn't want to accept anything happened
Again, MOST of the DEC's are very nice guys, quite a few lack the experience, but it's NOT their fault. They have been given an opportunity and took it, I would most probably have done the same thing. It's just, live low profile and don't start patronizing people because you're brought in as a hot shot DEC, all way from the US of A....
MR8
I'm not going to report someone behind his back to the company because he isn't the smooth operator I expect him to be... You can only use those things when:
1. something went quite wrong
2. you did confront the guy with your problems towards the situation
3. he doesn't want to accept anything happened
Again, MOST of the DEC's are very nice guys, quite a few lack the experience, but it's NOT their fault. They have been given an opportunity and took it, I would most probably have done the same thing. It's just, live low profile and don't start patronizing people because you're brought in as a hot shot DEC, all way from the US of A....
MR8
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10/4, MR8.
However by the rant of some guys, your points 1 + 3 were insinuated, thus my remark.
Only reflection to your remarks:
You sort of connect lack of experience to smooth operation. That would not be a problem, beeing still safe. This lack however may very suddenly turn into point 1. Then point 2 applies, definitely, or you run out of credibility and professionalism. If point 3 then appears, a report is stringent, in the name of safety.
However by the rant of some guys, your points 1 + 3 were insinuated, thus my remark.
Only reflection to your remarks:
You sort of connect lack of experience to smooth operation. That would not be a problem, beeing still safe. This lack however may very suddenly turn into point 1. Then point 2 applies, definitely, or you run out of credibility and professionalism. If point 3 then appears, a report is stringent, in the name of safety.
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correction to Tribune article
Actually this guy was on the DC-10. Northwest began phasing out the 10 last year. The DC-9 is the smallest Northwest has, so there's no way he could have been getting bumped down to something smaller than that.
Yup he was on the Dc10, as a F/o.
But it's not about him as a person, or a pilot , it's about the mess that EK has got itself into. I have no compaint when we have a genuine need for DEC's( my next job will be as one...somewhere) , I'm pretty sure that we could have got away with many fewer, but if you are going to take them at least make sure they have relevant expeceince...and we have taken quite a few who have been rated and current on type...one particular 777 Capt springs to mind ex-American Airlines, really nice guy,no longer with EK..... I dont think he will be writing recruitement articles in the Chicago Post or Washington Times..
But it's not about him as a person, or a pilot , it's about the mess that EK has got itself into. I have no compaint when we have a genuine need for DEC's( my next job will be as one...somewhere) , I'm pretty sure that we could have got away with many fewer, but if you are going to take them at least make sure they have relevant expeceince...and we have taken quite a few who have been rated and current on type...one particular 777 Capt springs to mind ex-American Airlines, really nice guy,no longer with EK..... I dont think he will be writing recruitement articles in the Chicago Post or Washington Times..
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DEC
The company is happy with the DECs. They hire them, regardless of the relevant experience, give them minimum training and then, put them to fly with the more senior F/os. The F/o will finish their training for free
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DEC The company is happy with the DECs. They hire them, regardless of the relevant experience, give them minimum training and then, put them to fly with the more senior F/os. The F/o will finish their training for free
Minimum training? 26 sectors and over 120 hours? Senior F/Os? Most I have flown with have been here for less time than I.
And back to our NWA pilot. The company would not have hired him as a DEC without the requisite glass experience on the Boeing or Airbus, believe it. So here's the question. Since the DEC program is a reality (and will be winding down for awhile in April), what, pray tell, would you consider adequate experience? In other words, would only prior 777 or 330 captains from SIA or KAL be sufficient? But wait, they may not have the experience to fly the Atlantic. Perhaps if your first language is not English that should disqualify you also. Maybe only former Gulf Air or Ethihad, English only speaking TRE/TRIs that used to work in Oz who learned their flying not in the military but in the UK, who.....nevermind. A DEC will never be qualified enough in the eyes of some.
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Tried to stay out of this (rather shrill) thread, but finally someone got my goat.
TU - guess you are a relative newbie - judging by your posts. A quick history lesson for you buddy.
EK did hire DECs - a long time in the days of the 310. It was done because the airline was small and we needed the experience. The guys who came in had to be type rated - that was the whole point. They were a diverse bunch - Canucks, Yanks (ex-Saudia and SQ) Jamaicans, Kenyans, Brits etc. I flew with many of them - good people on the whole and I learnt a lot from them.
When we had the critical mass to promote from within, that's what we did. GJ set the policy, bless his socks.
This time around it is a different story. It is being done now because the Redhead screwed it up, and won't admit his mistake. TCAS doesn't care and Ed is using it to build his powerbase. (Just wait and see who the next DCPA will be - a Yank is my bet).
The manner in which it is being done and lthe lack of planning is what is driving me nuts. There are scores of competent pilots in the right seat who are being discrminated against due to this short sighted and opportunistic policy. Some of them have as much LHS time as Ed's buddies. What ru and some of us are trying to do is speak up for these guys. It really doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I am appalled at what is being done in the name of expedience and wondering what has happened to a once fine company.
Rant over.
TU - guess you are a relative newbie - judging by your posts. A quick history lesson for you buddy.
EK did hire DECs - a long time in the days of the 310. It was done because the airline was small and we needed the experience. The guys who came in had to be type rated - that was the whole point. They were a diverse bunch - Canucks, Yanks (ex-Saudia and SQ) Jamaicans, Kenyans, Brits etc. I flew with many of them - good people on the whole and I learnt a lot from them.
When we had the critical mass to promote from within, that's what we did. GJ set the policy, bless his socks.
This time around it is a different story. It is being done now because the Redhead screwed it up, and won't admit his mistake. TCAS doesn't care and Ed is using it to build his powerbase. (Just wait and see who the next DCPA will be - a Yank is my bet).
The manner in which it is being done and lthe lack of planning is what is driving me nuts. There are scores of competent pilots in the right seat who are being discrminated against due to this short sighted and opportunistic policy. Some of them have as much LHS time as Ed's buddies. What ru and some of us are trying to do is speak up for these guys. It really doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I am appalled at what is being done in the name of expedience and wondering what has happened to a once fine company.
Rant over.