Ummm....Where did PAPAR go?!
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Ummm....Where did PAPAR go?!
Anybody know how a major airway to Europe has suddenly become unusable???!
Is it politics, Military funzies underneath the airway, global warming or Santa operating an unscheduled, non-RVSM, Non-RNP transit through the UAE for cheap petrol for the caddy?
Anyway, looks like we will get a scenic of the Straits of Hormuz or graze the Iraq/Iran FIR to Shiraz.
Ho hum, never a dull moment....
Is it politics, Military funzies underneath the airway, global warming or Santa operating an unscheduled, non-RVSM, Non-RNP transit through the UAE for cheap petrol for the caddy?
Anyway, looks like we will get a scenic of the Straits of Hormuz or graze the Iraq/Iran FIR to Shiraz.
Ho hum, never a dull moment....
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Iran Notam
Mr. Ed just wrote a mail about it: apparently the Iranians want no transfers anymore at Papar, but earlier (forgot the name of the new handover point) UAE doesn't agree and stopped westbound traffic to Papar, instead going up more north towards the straight. Seems all very political to me...
MR8
MR8
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I can't comment on whats going on as it is all very sensitive right now, but I do have a query for all the pilots out there.
Who would you guys prefer to talk to when out of A080 ft and climbing out of Dubai or Sharjah along with the other 15 jets who all depart in a 15 minute period going PAPAR, UAE ACC or Tehran "control"?
(MR8, the point is called KUMUN)
Who would you guys prefer to talk to when out of A080 ft and climbing out of Dubai or Sharjah along with the other 15 jets who all depart in a 15 minute period going PAPAR, UAE ACC or Tehran "control"?
(MR8, the point is called KUMUN)
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Having just done the doggo, UAE7 and a number of others filed by DARAX to EGGL and other European destinations (I might add DARAX is a procedural A.K.A Non-Radar environment and 'questionable' airway for safety!). After Darax (once clear of packagaes of F15's, their tankers and anyone else without DIP clearances transitting via the Musandam Penninsula) were turned left by Tehran and onto ROTAL, the point after PAPA missing the 'disputed airway'.
Ultimately nothing has been achieved by this agenda as the routings after Balus also took a hard right turn ABM Bahrain way on their way up to Shiraz. When I say nothing has been achieved, the jets ended up back in the Tehran FIR anyway and still missed the 'Jetstream' Westbound and not losing the big bucks and Tehran still got their enroute charges. Had everyone had to blast straight into the 'Jets' westbound skipping the Tehran FIR I am sure there would have been more grief from the industry.
Also believe the Muscat FIR may have had to process a lot more of the Ex-Asia, Europe bound, traffic on the horrible right hander R654 if my brain serves me right which takes them up to Jiwani.
Anyway hope at some stage everybody can sit down and have a group hug over this and try to resolve the underlying issues that have been festering for quite a while it seems on this issue.
Happy faces everyone Chrissy, Eid and New Years are just around the corner!
P.S. Still haven't found my mug, might make a good prezzy under my Christmas tree!
Ultimately nothing has been achieved by this agenda as the routings after Balus also took a hard right turn ABM Bahrain way on their way up to Shiraz. When I say nothing has been achieved, the jets ended up back in the Tehran FIR anyway and still missed the 'Jetstream' Westbound and not losing the big bucks and Tehran still got their enroute charges. Had everyone had to blast straight into the 'Jets' westbound skipping the Tehran FIR I am sure there would have been more grief from the industry.
Also believe the Muscat FIR may have had to process a lot more of the Ex-Asia, Europe bound, traffic on the horrible right hander R654 if my brain serves me right which takes them up to Jiwani.
Anyway hope at some stage everybody can sit down and have a group hug over this and try to resolve the underlying issues that have been festering for quite a while it seems on this issue.
Happy faces everyone Chrissy, Eid and New Years are just around the corner!
P.S. Still haven't found my mug, might make a good prezzy under my Christmas tree!
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RIP Papar route......
From what I understand(which is not much) there is a new MSSR en-route radar that has been installed at Kish Island. So now Tehran control said to the UAE, thank you, we will take control of the airway between KUMUN and PAPAR.
Here lies the problem......... Dubai approach does not have any landline contact with Tehran conrol. No letters of agreement or hand-over procedures are in place between Tehran control and Dubai approach.
Up until yesterday, it would happen at least a couple of times during a shift, that Dubai approach will contact UAE ACC to co-ordinate parallel headings or further climb for aircraft en-route to Papar, that is to avoid even more delays for the aircraft. I must admit I would much rather contact the UAE ACC to co-ordinate futher climb, parallel headings ect... then to try and co-ordinate that with Tehran control.
As if Dubai Airport does not have enough delays as it is????
Absolute chaos at work today!! Ranbi gate and Maxmo gate now between the two of them have to share the Papar load!!!
Maxmo/Darax route was not designed for more then +/-2 aircraft at a time......The UAE ACC have limited outbound levels available via Darax....so.....they put in flow control to try and deal with the increase of traffic via a gate that was designed for limited aircraft at a time. So there will now be times at Dubai where there will be different flow control via all the outbound gates. Now isn't this fun with just one runway and to try and incorperate the SJH traffic into the flow as well. So, it could happen that on a good day you have, not more than 3 every 10 minutes via Riket, not more then 3 every 10 minutes via Anvix, 5 minutes between Ranbi departures and 10 minutes via Maxmo departures. And let's not forget to try and squeeze the SJH outbounds in there as well.
So what did management do???????
They put out a memo stating that the Papar gate is closed and that new instructions will follow on SATURDAY!! So they all go and have a nice weekend(Shopping festival is on), and the poor controllers at Dubai and UAE Centre has to try and make the system work!! Pilots get upset because of the delays, which I can understand and sympathize with, but no use getting upset with ATC. We are just stuck in the middle trying to make the system work!
As if this is not enough to deal with, the paradropper at UAQ gets upset with Dubai approach because he now gets restricted, due to the increase of traffic in- and outbound routing over UAQ.
So ATC needs to deal with, operators calling complaining about delays, trying to co-ordinate climb/headings ect. with the UAE centre and take numerous calls from the parashooting club not understanding why they get restricted.
So, if I answer the phone and sound a bit grumpy..........please excuse!
Hopefully when our pay increase for 2007 get announced, it will all make it worthwhile and we will all smile again
From what I understand(which is not much) there is a new MSSR en-route radar that has been installed at Kish Island. So now Tehran control said to the UAE, thank you, we will take control of the airway between KUMUN and PAPAR.
Here lies the problem......... Dubai approach does not have any landline contact with Tehran conrol. No letters of agreement or hand-over procedures are in place between Tehran control and Dubai approach.
Up until yesterday, it would happen at least a couple of times during a shift, that Dubai approach will contact UAE ACC to co-ordinate parallel headings or further climb for aircraft en-route to Papar, that is to avoid even more delays for the aircraft. I must admit I would much rather contact the UAE ACC to co-ordinate futher climb, parallel headings ect... then to try and co-ordinate that with Tehran control.
As if Dubai Airport does not have enough delays as it is????Absolute chaos at work today!! Ranbi gate and Maxmo gate now between the two of them have to share the Papar load!!!
Maxmo/Darax route was not designed for more then +/-2 aircraft at a time......The UAE ACC have limited outbound levels available via Darax....so.....they put in flow control to try and deal with the increase of traffic via a gate that was designed for limited aircraft at a time. So there will now be times at Dubai where there will be different flow control via all the outbound gates. Now isn't this fun with just one runway and to try and incorperate the SJH traffic into the flow as well. So, it could happen that on a good day you have, not more than 3 every 10 minutes via Riket, not more then 3 every 10 minutes via Anvix, 5 minutes between Ranbi departures and 10 minutes via Maxmo departures. And let's not forget to try and squeeze the SJH outbounds in there as well.
So what did management do???????
They put out a memo stating that the Papar gate is closed and that new instructions will follow on SATURDAY!! So they all go and have a nice weekend(Shopping festival is on), and the poor controllers at Dubai and UAE Centre has to try and make the system work!! Pilots get upset because of the delays, which I can understand and sympathize with, but no use getting upset with ATC. We are just stuck in the middle trying to make the system work! As if this is not enough to deal with, the paradropper at UAQ gets upset with Dubai approach because he now gets restricted, due to the increase of traffic in- and outbound routing over UAQ.
So ATC needs to deal with, operators calling complaining about delays, trying to co-ordinate climb/headings ect. with the UAE centre and take numerous calls from the parashooting club not understanding why they get restricted.
So, if I answer the phone and sound a bit grumpy..........please excuse!
Hopefully when our pay increase for 2007 get announced, it will all make it worthwhile and we will all smile again
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Desertrose
Well summed up!
We weren't affected quite so badly on the night shift as Darax is reasonably quiet compared to the day shifts now with the heavy Island traffic and other non-sked Afghan, Iranian and former Soviet State traffic.
This one is a hot potato and I understand there may be limited dialogue until January when there is a conference in Cairo ....we'll see.
I guess the message to all concerned is please understand the complications we are now faced with and be patient. We (ATC in Dubai and UAE) are doing our best with a bad situation.
We weren't affected quite so badly on the night shift as Darax is reasonably quiet compared to the day shifts now with the heavy Island traffic and other non-sked Afghan, Iranian and former Soviet State traffic.
This one is a hot potato and I understand there may be limited dialogue until January when there is a conference in Cairo ....we'll see.
I guess the message to all concerned is please understand the complications we are now faced with and be patient. We (ATC in Dubai and UAE) are doing our best with a bad situation.
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Wait I have seen this one before.......there is a juggler...............
He is jugling 2 balls..... then 3....... the 4 .....then someone add a hot frying pan ....... then a chainsaw..... and a couple of kitchen knifes just to keep things interesting!!!!
""Somebody gonna get hurt real bad!!!!!!!""
Thanks to the "higher" politics, I have to make a trip to the Baracuda sooner than expected!!!!! Stress medication : Doctors orders!!
He is jugling 2 balls..... then 3....... the 4 .....then someone add a hot frying pan ....... then a chainsaw..... and a couple of kitchen knifes just to keep things interesting!!!!
""Somebody gonna get hurt real bad!!!!!!!""
Thanks to the "higher" politics, I have to make a trip to the Baracuda sooner than expected!!!!! Stress medication : Doctors orders!!
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Bu remember lads, this is NOT an excuse to take extra fuel. Fleet has assessed all these risks and there is no operational impact. If in doubt, please call the FCDM for confirmation of the party line 
