To the EK chiefs reading pprune.....
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long range eddie says if you experience difficulty in reaching a crew scheduler to volunteer to fly open time, you should contact your fc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well me thinks that the lines are so busy by scheduling trying to crew the many open flights (sometimes two calls a day), that the only idiot among us can't get through to them ...........
well me thinks that the lines are so busy by scheduling trying to crew the many open flights (sometimes two calls a day), that the only idiot among us can't get through to them ...........
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Man, have you tried getting throught to ANY department in EK recently....Tried to call transport to find out why the car was 1 1/2 hours late... engaged, Crewing... answering machine, Payroll....answering machine, never will call you back, Accomodation.....well why even try! Call the Fleet manager!!!!!! like, that is harder than crewing.
It's not good enough to be on the phone trying to get some information from departments that are totally uncontactable, imagine if we were uncontactable while we were at work.....
Come on Ek do something about the contactability of people we need to call.
It's not good enough to be on the phone trying to get some information from departments that are totally uncontactable, imagine if we were uncontactable while we were at work.....
Come on Ek do something about the contactability of people we need to call.
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phone calls from cewing!!
3 phone calls today from crewing
2 yesterday one at midday the other 430 AM on a day off a nice pleading message to answer! NO captains for a dxb nce rome milan rome dxb so a phone call at 430am for a 6am pick up on a day off !! is that clutching at straws!!
DO NOT answer your phones if you have a suspicion it is crewing 218 or 288 numbers treat with care!!Unless of course you want to earn 400 DHS instead of the longer term positive changes that might happen by not answering.
2 yesterday one at midday the other 430 AM on a day off a nice pleading message to answer! NO captains for a dxb nce rome milan rome dxb so a phone call at 430am for a 6am pick up on a day off !! is that clutching at straws!!
DO NOT answer your phones if you have a suspicion it is crewing 218 or 288 numbers treat with care!!Unless of course you want to earn 400 DHS instead of the longer term positive changes that might happen by not answering.
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To support the above statements, go look on Captains (all) open time flights and then look on FOs. Capts flights not crewed about 100 over next week and FOs about 10. About 45 Captains short at the moment and a whole bunch about to go in the new year, currently serving their 3 months.
Take it easy guys, that phone will remain hot for the forseeable future, whos helping who out here?
HOWWWWwwww lucky they were the A380 is delayed, unbelievable. The lucky bucket is quickly running dry now and maybe deep pockets will help to fill it again and help get some more pilots here before we all decide it's just getting too much. A lot of airlines do days on layovers or E or W every other month. The charters work hard for a portion of the year over night, the low cost work multi-sectors. That makes us a bit of everything (except the long layovers or not mixing E and W). How talented we are to operate every aspect of global civil aviation and even though we fly to some well dangerous places, what real reward does one get? Well I think that the massive influx of pilots over the last 3 or so years will see a massive outflow as demand gets better elsewhere and at least 5 or 7 years have passed in EK to take yer cash.
Take it easy guys, that phone will remain hot for the forseeable future, whos helping who out here?
HOWWWWwwww lucky they were the A380 is delayed, unbelievable. The lucky bucket is quickly running dry now and maybe deep pockets will help to fill it again and help get some more pilots here before we all decide it's just getting too much. A lot of airlines do days on layovers or E or W every other month. The charters work hard for a portion of the year over night, the low cost work multi-sectors. That makes us a bit of everything (except the long layovers or not mixing E and W). How talented we are to operate every aspect of global civil aviation and even though we fly to some well dangerous places, what real reward does one get? Well I think that the massive influx of pilots over the last 3 or so years will see a massive outflow as demand gets better elsewhere and at least 5 or 7 years have passed in EK to take yer cash.
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We are often reminded that the EK package is continually reviewed with regards to other airlines. We are told it is competitive and indeed this is probably true. The beancounters add it all up, see what everyone else is offering and present the data to management who then feel suitably comforted.
Perhaps then the ever increasing attrition rate and shortage of pilots with resultant fatigue and sickness leaves them somewhat confused when flights are not covered. When they are, it is not by goodwill as we are told, its simply because of personal circumstance leading to overtime, call out pay etc.
What the beancounters cannot put a value on is personal time and quality of life. These are being continually eroded with the result that people are either not prepared to put up with the loss unless financially compensated or under any circumstances.
Much of this is not even EK's fault. Dubai is simply not a good place to live anymore. Anyone considering the move would be well advised to spend a couple of days here in a hired car and experience this themselves. The roads are choked almost to the point of gridlock and highly dangerous as a result of speeding 4x4's or badly driven heavy vehicles. This makes every aspect of life from running errands to school runs nerve racking and tedious. Simple tasks have increased three fold in terms of time. General inefficiency often means certain trips must be repeated.
On top of this EK fills the remaining time off with their housework. Groundschool has been offloaded onto personal time via the internet. Company email has allowed every manager to invade personal time with a myriad of tasks for one to fulfil in ones own time. The FOM statements on ensuring one is suitably rested are simply a joke. Even trying to get hold of EK's own internal departments can take several hours of listening to menus, recorded messages and praying you will be phoned back. Good luck to the new joiner who simply wants to speak to someone in Accommodation, for instance.
Combine all this with a falling US dollar, rampant inflation, stealth taxes, pollution etc., to mention just a few, Dubai is decidedly unattractive. Every aspect of living in the city is laborious and frustrating.
Hence people move on, even for smaller packages, simply to retain sanity and some vestage of quality of life.
I say to the beancounters; forget competitive and start thinking in terms of exceptional - because for many of us that's what it will take to stay in this city much longer.
Perhaps then the ever increasing attrition rate and shortage of pilots with resultant fatigue and sickness leaves them somewhat confused when flights are not covered. When they are, it is not by goodwill as we are told, its simply because of personal circumstance leading to overtime, call out pay etc.
What the beancounters cannot put a value on is personal time and quality of life. These are being continually eroded with the result that people are either not prepared to put up with the loss unless financially compensated or under any circumstances.
Much of this is not even EK's fault. Dubai is simply not a good place to live anymore. Anyone considering the move would be well advised to spend a couple of days here in a hired car and experience this themselves. The roads are choked almost to the point of gridlock and highly dangerous as a result of speeding 4x4's or badly driven heavy vehicles. This makes every aspect of life from running errands to school runs nerve racking and tedious. Simple tasks have increased three fold in terms of time. General inefficiency often means certain trips must be repeated.
On top of this EK fills the remaining time off with their housework. Groundschool has been offloaded onto personal time via the internet. Company email has allowed every manager to invade personal time with a myriad of tasks for one to fulfil in ones own time. The FOM statements on ensuring one is suitably rested are simply a joke. Even trying to get hold of EK's own internal departments can take several hours of listening to menus, recorded messages and praying you will be phoned back. Good luck to the new joiner who simply wants to speak to someone in Accommodation, for instance.
Combine all this with a falling US dollar, rampant inflation, stealth taxes, pollution etc., to mention just a few, Dubai is decidedly unattractive. Every aspect of living in the city is laborious and frustrating.
Hence people move on, even for smaller packages, simply to retain sanity and some vestage of quality of life.
I say to the beancounters; forget competitive and start thinking in terms of exceptional - because for many of us that's what it will take to stay in this city much longer.
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Brain Surgery
Critical Winge is correct....
Is there any wonder there are so may flights in open time after Long Range Edds email explaining why you will not get paid call out pay if you help the company out....
So in a nut shell if you decided to to the company a favour FLEET
now turn around and say we are doing you a favour by giving you back your day off so NO CALL OUT PAY
Wonder what the official line will be on Xmas and New Years Day or will it be unscheduled maintanence with the parked planes...........
Is there any wonder there are so may flights in open time after Long Range Edds email explaining why you will not get paid call out pay if you help the company out....
All pilots volunteering to fly on days off that are not then replaced by compensating days off and not receiving a day off to meet a regulatory requirement will receive call-out pay.
Fleet has determined that a recent interpretation of that applicability to pilots who agree to fly open time by calling crew schedules as per our open time board system was not in keeping with the intent of the FOM.
Fleet has determined that a recent interpretation of that applicability to pilots who agree to fly open time by calling crew schedules as per our open time board system was not in keeping with the intent of the FOM.
now turn around and say we are doing you a favour by giving you back your day off so NO CALL OUT PAY
Wonder what the official line will be on Xmas and New Years Day or will it be unscheduled maintanence with the parked planes...........
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SIMPLE really.
DO NOT WORK ON A DAY OFF or ANSWER YOUR PHONES IN YOUR VALUABLE and LITTLE TME OFF THAT YOU HAVE. PAYMENT OR NOT. PERIOD. WE WILL ALL SUFFER IN THE LONG TERM!!! DO NOT VOLUNTEER FOR OPEN TIME. ALL MANAGEMENT DO IS TAKE THE PRIME TRIPS OUT OF THE SYSTEM TO MAKE IT LOOK ATTRACTIVE AND ASSIGN ALL THE CRAP TRIPS TO THE POINT WHERE THESE WILL BE ASSIGNED TO YOU EVEN TOP BID!!! WE GAIN NOTHING!!! THE COMPANY GAINS EVERYTHING. A BLOODY ONE WAY STREET!!
DO NOT DO IT GUYS FOR ALL OUR SAKES LONG TERM!!
DO NOT WORK ON A DAY OFF or ANSWER YOUR PHONES IN YOUR VALUABLE and LITTLE TME OFF THAT YOU HAVE. PAYMENT OR NOT. PERIOD. WE WILL ALL SUFFER IN THE LONG TERM!!!
DO NOT VOLUNTEER FOR OPEN TIME. ALL MANAGEMENT DO IS TAKE THE PRIME TRIPS OUT OF THE SYSTEM TO MAKE IT LOOK ATTRACTIVE AND ASSIGN ALL THE CRAP TRIPS TO THE POINT WHERE THESE WILL BE ASSIGNED TO YOU EVEN TOP BID!!! WE GAIN NOTHING!!! THE COMPANY GAINS EVERYTHING. A BLOODY ONE WAY STREET!!DO NOT DO IT GUYS FOR ALL OUR SAKES LONG TERM!!
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Stop Volunteering
The more we volunteer or accept to fly on our OFF DAYS the less chance we have of seeing any improvement on our pay and conditions.
I recently spoke to someone in crew control and this person told me that they have a monumentous task every day to crew flights. I then asked whether this had been brought up to senior management? Pretty obvious question, I know!
The answer from management is, we have enough Pilots. So there you have it!
For as long as we say YES the show continues. I personally answer the phone and simply say NO THANKS, I have other plans, irrespective of what the trip offer happens to be! And let's face it, neither the overtime pay nor the call out pay is worth anything to get excited about!!
If however we all stand together and simply say NO! We stand to achieve a lot more in the future.
Latest rumour has the hold pool down to 40 pilots ONLY. Interesting times!
Check Six
I recently spoke to someone in crew control and this person told me that they have a monumentous task every day to crew flights. I then asked whether this had been brought up to senior management? Pretty obvious question, I know!
The answer from management is, we have enough Pilots. So there you have it!
For as long as we say YES the show continues. I personally answer the phone and simply say NO THANKS, I have other plans, irrespective of what the trip offer happens to be! And let's face it, neither the overtime pay nor the call out pay is worth anything to get excited about!!
If however we all stand together and simply say NO! We stand to achieve a lot more in the future.
Latest rumour has the hold pool down to 40 pilots ONLY. Interesting times!
Check Six
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Check six,
Good idea, stand together....., but if you are proposing that, then you would have to agree we have to stand together on many more things...
..like DECs, seniority, upgrades, etc....
I don't see the difference between flying on days off, accelerated commands, accepting a DEC position, by-passing your peers, etc... in principle it is all the same...
Right, didn't think so...
Good idea, stand together....., but if you are proposing that, then you would have to agree we have to stand together on many more things...
..like DECs, seniority, upgrades, etc....
I don't see the difference between flying on days off, accelerated commands, accepting a DEC position, by-passing your peers, etc... in principle it is all the same...
Right, didn't think so...
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My eyes are starting to water... onions have that effect on a lot of people in the Sandpit.
All calling out "stand together" should ask around and ask what happened last time management even imagined some pilots were planning such a course of action.
Any such people wouuld be well advised to be very careful what they say on the phone.
Not kidding.
All calling out "stand together" should ask around and ask what happened last time management even imagined some pilots were planning such a course of action.
Any such people wouuld be well advised to be very careful what they say on the phone.
Not kidding.
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Latest rumour has the hold pool down to 40 pilots ONLY. Interesting times!
what does it mean?
what does it mean?
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Stand Together
Requesting the pilot group to do this is absolutely pointless. It is not as if management can be informed that pilots will be working to rule!
Accept that we are all mercenaries here and everyone is entitled to do what they believe is best for them and or their families.
It will always be that some are prepared to stand their ground and some aren't. Dont judge those that aren't prepared to do what you may percieve to be the right thing.
As it happens, i believe that the way things are heading, it wont take any effort on our part to achieve the aim. The company is doing it all on its own.
I think the greatest thing we have done as a group is bring the facts to this forum. Whilst there is, and always will be, differences of opinions on what the facts are, it cannot be denied that anyone looking at Emirates today is far better informed than say 5 years ago. I think that has a great deal to do with the alleged shrinking pool of applications. And in the end, that is the only thing that will impact the managements thinking on how they should treat us.
V
Accept that we are all mercenaries here and everyone is entitled to do what they believe is best for them and or their families.
It will always be that some are prepared to stand their ground and some aren't. Dont judge those that aren't prepared to do what you may percieve to be the right thing.
As it happens, i believe that the way things are heading, it wont take any effort on our part to achieve the aim. The company is doing it all on its own.
I think the greatest thing we have done as a group is bring the facts to this forum. Whilst there is, and always will be, differences of opinions on what the facts are, it cannot be denied that anyone looking at Emirates today is far better informed than say 5 years ago. I think that has a great deal to do with the alleged shrinking pool of applications. And in the end, that is the only thing that will impact the managements thinking on how they should treat us.
V
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Southflyer, pretty much it.
Been in this industry 20 years and have never seen threatening to not work days off, taking more fuel to piss the company off, going sick, saying "I'm not going to answer the phone", bla bla bla, ever achieve anything other than to have a few guys get nailed for obstructive behaviour.
This will run a natural course regardless of whether some do or don't go to work on days off, eventually there will be no crew left to legally call for flights.
I wait with anticipation what will happen when the transfers to the 777 take place, pandora has her hand on the box lid.
Been in this industry 20 years and have never seen threatening to not work days off, taking more fuel to piss the company off, going sick, saying "I'm not going to answer the phone", bla bla bla, ever achieve anything other than to have a few guys get nailed for obstructive behaviour.
This will run a natural course regardless of whether some do or don't go to work on days off, eventually there will be no crew left to legally call for flights.
I wait with anticipation what will happen when the transfers to the 777 take place, pandora has her hand on the box lid.
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I assure you southflyer that "checksix" is as straight as they get, and he would not have any second thoughts to stand strong on all the issues you have brought up.
As a general rule though, it is allot easier to move on and do your own thing, than to change the situation you are in, because uniting together is as likely to happen as snow in Dubai (Outside the Emirates Mall).
EK has a diverse group of pilots, with only one thing in common (Money and Career, thus we are all looking out for number 1, (from Ed, to TCAS, to you and me.)
We do it on a different level, Ops management do not care about the pilots, the TREs do not care about the TRIs, the TRIs do not care about the LTCs, the LTCs, do not care about the Captains, the Captains do not care about the FOs, and on and on.
This is not a society based on values, and principles. It is a basic money, and fun culture. Those of us who want to stay in Dubai need to accept it, and those of us who can not accept it need to move on, or be miserable.
What is acceptable to you , might not be to me and vice versa. We do not stay in Dubai because we like it, but because we want it. Deep down we do not mind the abuse because we get something else in return.
Those who have done some soul searching have packed their bags and moved on. Those who have not, stick it out either in a happy oblivion, or in a miserable state of understanding.
Dubai is exactly what it used to be 20 and 30 years ago. It has not changed. Dubai has now become unbearable to us further up the food chain, and not only for the less fortunate from the sub continent and other regions doing the menial jobs. It was never a nice place unless you were one of the privileged. We are not part of that group any more I am afraid.
Our masters see us as workers, just like those building their palms, and worlds, and buildings etc. People with a lot less skill and education are building high rises, shopping centres and fun parks. Why do you think that they should care about those flying their shiny airplanes?
They do not care about any of us here, and what we want, they only care about what they want.
We too, do not care about anything else but what is good for us personally. It is a vicious cycle and the sooner we recognise it, the sooner we can do something about it; leave for a more normal life, stay and be more caring to each other, or stay trapped in "the I wish I could go but I cannot because...."
Things will not improve because we all see this place as a temporary fix to what we want, and our masters see us as a temporary fix to what the need as well. In every industry, the temp guys never get anything improved....
Regards
Cpt K
As a general rule though, it is allot easier to move on and do your own thing, than to change the situation you are in, because uniting together is as likely to happen as snow in Dubai (Outside the Emirates Mall).
EK has a diverse group of pilots, with only one thing in common (Money and Career, thus we are all looking out for number 1, (from Ed, to TCAS, to you and me.)
We do it on a different level, Ops management do not care about the pilots, the TREs do not care about the TRIs, the TRIs do not care about the LTCs, the LTCs, do not care about the Captains, the Captains do not care about the FOs, and on and on.
This is not a society based on values, and principles. It is a basic money, and fun culture. Those of us who want to stay in Dubai need to accept it, and those of us who can not accept it need to move on, or be miserable.
What is acceptable to you , might not be to me and vice versa. We do not stay in Dubai because we like it, but because we want it. Deep down we do not mind the abuse because we get something else in return.
Those who have done some soul searching have packed their bags and moved on. Those who have not, stick it out either in a happy oblivion, or in a miserable state of understanding.
Dubai is exactly what it used to be 20 and 30 years ago. It has not changed. Dubai has now become unbearable to us further up the food chain, and not only for the less fortunate from the sub continent and other regions doing the menial jobs. It was never a nice place unless you were one of the privileged. We are not part of that group any more I am afraid.
Our masters see us as workers, just like those building their palms, and worlds, and buildings etc. People with a lot less skill and education are building high rises, shopping centres and fun parks. Why do you think that they should care about those flying their shiny airplanes?
They do not care about any of us here, and what we want, they only care about what they want.
We too, do not care about anything else but what is good for us personally. It is a vicious cycle and the sooner we recognise it, the sooner we can do something about it; leave for a more normal life, stay and be more caring to each other, or stay trapped in "the I wish I could go but I cannot because...."
Things will not improve because we all see this place as a temporary fix to what we want, and our masters see us as a temporary fix to what the need as well. In every industry, the temp guys never get anything improved....
Regards
Cpt K
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Hey Southflyer, you dont know me from a bar of soap, nor do you know what is important to me! So keep your personal attacks to yourself or to someone who will take the bait!
I agree with the general consensus above, that the company has primarily done this to themselves. But also a word of gratitude to those colleagues who voted with their feet and actually left the company. In the past I did the same, along with many other colleagues in a different life. Unfortunately (Hind sight is always 20/20) I left to come to this place!
I have 18 more months for our eldest daughter to complete school. And unless they come up with something spectacular (which I doubt) we will leave this place and never look back.
Check Six
I agree with the general consensus above, that the company has primarily done this to themselves. But also a word of gratitude to those colleagues who voted with their feet and actually left the company. In the past I did the same, along with many other colleagues in a different life. Unfortunately (Hind sight is always 20/20) I left to come to this place!
I have 18 more months for our eldest daughter to complete school. And unless they come up with something spectacular (which I doubt) we will leave this place and never look back.
Check Six