Classic RT
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Muttley Crew
Take it easy.... I challenge you to find a runway in the US with 01 painted on it! The difference between the Yanks and the Ozzies is that the Yanks dont get all hung up when some sap thinks he can see 01 painted on the runway.... they dont care... they understood what was meant (yes they too would like to correct everyone who gets it wrong but they dont. They let such trivia go) Australians need to learn to do the same!
Australians on the other hand have a knack of portraying this holier than thou attitude just like you and mesnaboy are doing on this thread.
And mesaboy
Over the last year in Australia, all I hear is '...mel center, xyz maintains FL220'. What really gets me is when an Australian controller says 'contact me on 124.1' the pilots will repeat the instrction then call the same guy on a different frequency with ' xyz maintains FL220' . At least the Yanks simply switch over freq instead of tieing up the airwaves and reports with something like 'xyz made the switch 124.1.
I hear regularly, both in SE Asia and previously in the middle east,Ozzie pilots using the phrase 'maintains FL....' when checking onto a frequency. So please stop the Yank bashing youre giving us all bad name.
Alphaprot, Could not agree more!
Runway ONE?????
Australians on the other hand have a knack of portraying this holier than thou attitude just like you and mesnaboy are doing on this thread.
And mesaboy
Oh yes, and when checking in, it is not required to state 'maintaining FL 220'
I hear regularly, both in SE Asia and previously in the middle east,Ozzie pilots using the phrase 'maintains FL....' when checking onto a frequency. So please stop the Yank bashing youre giving us all bad name.
Australian system of aviation is very professional, they do love re-inventing the wheel, creating lots of rules and regulations and basically making things difficult
Grandpa Aerotart
It is drummed into the thick skulls of us Ozzie and Kiwi 'dehydrated, jet lagged, hypoxic village idiots' (just love that
) by our mostly Brit C&Ters that we must use maintaining (not maintains) climbing or descending (never 'to') when changing frequencies.
This was stated as ICAO compliant but given the quoted reference above seems not to be.
It DOES however increase situational awareness for those sharing our piece of sky and as such is good airmanship in my view...particularly as we spend an innordinate amount of our flying lives in Indonesian, Thai, Indian, Burmese and ME, EU skies...as well as Oz and the land of the long white cloud. The next time an aircraft is on an airway with opposite direction traffic at the same level won't be the first
When on climb and descent in various places it also acts as a final filter for picking up missunderstood clearances...aviation 'English' being what it is in some parts of the globe
I remember hearing a yank flying Reach xy some months back in the ME with excellent radio discipline...and was stunned...generally I want to Dry Reach listening to them.
Any C&Ter and/or Captain who allows 'ahhh' or 'um' to punctuate every second word of a radio call without swatting it on the head needs a talking too....it's disgracefull.
Every country has it's ICAO differences and I don't think any can claim the high ground on this matter....certainly not OZ OR the UK.
Just what IS the story with 'fully ready' in the UK
?
Why can't all countries have the same standard call for getting clearance and requesting push back?
Why do I seem to be the only person who reads that part of Jepps and rights down the info in the requested order before calling DXB ground (WHEN are you getting a CLD freq?) or London Clearance?
Love the simple clearances that seem the order of the day OUTSIDE Oz ..."Birdseed 007, cleared xyz, Tonvo 1 delta, squawk 2238." "Tonvo 1 Delta, 2238, birdseed 007". When will Oz put stop heights on their SIDs?
BTW the correct answer to "Call UAE control now xyz.a" is "xyz.a, emirates 007" (no, don't work there
) NOT "call UAE control now xyz.a, emirates 007"
Don't get me started on "Charlie Charlie"...or those Tossers who append their callsign with 'The"...mostly BA...mind you that seems to have been a passing fade..haven't heard it for ages. Perhaps management put out an edict banning it....or maybe I am filtering it.
) by our mostly Brit C&Ters that we must use maintaining (not maintains) climbing or descending (never 'to') when changing frequencies. This was stated as ICAO compliant but given the quoted reference above seems not to be.
It DOES however increase situational awareness for those sharing our piece of sky and as such is good airmanship in my view...particularly as we spend an innordinate amount of our flying lives in Indonesian, Thai, Indian, Burmese and ME, EU skies...as well as Oz and the land of the long white cloud. The next time an aircraft is on an airway with opposite direction traffic at the same level won't be the first
When on climb and descent in various places it also acts as a final filter for picking up missunderstood clearances...aviation 'English' being what it is in some parts of the globe
I remember hearing a yank flying Reach xy some months back in the ME with excellent radio discipline...and was stunned...generally I want to Dry Reach listening to them.
Any C&Ter and/or Captain who allows 'ahhh' or 'um' to punctuate every second word of a radio call without swatting it on the head needs a talking too....it's disgracefull.
Every country has it's ICAO differences and I don't think any can claim the high ground on this matter....certainly not OZ OR the UK.
Just what IS the story with 'fully ready' in the UK
?Why can't all countries have the same standard call for getting clearance and requesting push back?
Why do I seem to be the only person who reads that part of Jepps and rights down the info in the requested order before calling DXB ground (WHEN are you getting a CLD freq?) or London Clearance?
Love the simple clearances that seem the order of the day OUTSIDE Oz ..."Birdseed 007, cleared xyz, Tonvo 1 delta, squawk 2238." "Tonvo 1 Delta, 2238, birdseed 007". When will Oz put stop heights on their SIDs?
BTW the correct answer to "Call UAE control now xyz.a" is "xyz.a, emirates 007" (no, don't work there
) NOT "call UAE control now xyz.a, emirates 007" Don't get me started on "Charlie Charlie"...or those Tossers who append their callsign with 'The"...mostly BA...mind you that seems to have been a passing fade..haven't heard it for ages. Perhaps management put out an edict banning it....or maybe I am filtering it.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 20th May 2006 at 15:03.
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Togalk, perhaps a refresher in RT wouldn't harm
When transmitting messages containing flight levels each digit shall be
transmitted separately. However, in an endeavour to reduce ‘level busts’ caused by the confusion between some levels (100/110, 200/220 etc.), levels which are whole hundreds e.g. FL 100, 200, 300 shall be spoken as “Flight level (number) HUN DRED”. The word hundred must not be used for headings. Extraction from CAP 413 UK.
Cheers.
When transmitting messages containing flight levels each digit shall be
transmitted separately. However, in an endeavour to reduce ‘level busts’ caused by the confusion between some levels (100/110, 200/220 etc.), levels which are whole hundreds e.g. FL 100, 200, 300 shall be spoken as “Flight level (number) HUN DRED”. The word hundred must not be used for headings. Extraction from CAP 413 UK.
Cheers.
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I don't care how you put it just make it concise, succinct and preferabley in audible english......hooroo! btw the way the 'hundred' flight level thingy must have changed back and forth about three times since i first got me licence 11 years ago, which is why I usually give headings ending in five....wish I could give cardinals like I used to used in my previous proffession.
"EK985 steer NE by E traffic four points off the port side low steady bearing...argh!"
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Thanks, that may be in the UK CAP, but I am pretty sure it is not anywhere else, as that is the only place I hear it, or guys from there. I may be mistaken, (it won't be the first time) and next time I go to work I will look at the Jeppesen manual and supply the reference in it.
To the earlier poster:
"DXB, XXX with you at FL250"; you're not "with him", his on the ground and YOU are in the plane. He could all 'round the building and not find you.
A simple "DXB, XXX, FL250" will do fine.
GF
"DXB, XXX with you at FL250"; you're not "with him", his on the ground and YOU are in the plane. He could all 'round the building and not find you.
A simple "DXB, XXX, FL250" will do fine.
GF
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Talking about RT....nor is "my-salami-camal-cum"...or however you spell that word in arabic, used for a greeting an ICAO phraseology...why don't you Ozzies and Brits realize that the world is made up of other nationalities....did you understand when the guy said 25oh...because I did...or do you need me to take that stick out of your a**. How about when we pass 10000ft...why do we say "one hundred climbing 250"...where does "one hundred" come from. Like I said fly the damn plane and stop fretting the small stuff.
And the other arguement about "to 5000" or did they mean "25000"....its obvious it was "5000" or they would have said "FL"...guys use your brain or do you need everything handed to you on a silver platter.....oh wait, I know you must sleep with the FOM under your pillows.
And whats with the PDC read back in SYD...reading the Dep, tansistion, cleared alt, and squawk...isn't there a reason why there is a PDC number so we don't have to pick up and read back the entire clearence.....we might as well as forget about PDC and just call them for the clearence.
And the other arguement about "to 5000" or did they mean "25000"....its obvious it was "5000" or they would have said "FL"...guys use your brain or do you need everything handed to you on a silver platter.....oh wait, I know you must sleep with the FOM under your pillows.
And whats with the PDC read back in SYD...reading the Dep, tansistion, cleared alt, and squawk...isn't there a reason why there is a PDC number so we don't have to pick up and read back the entire clearence.....we might as well as forget about PDC and just call them for the clearence.
Last edited by readytocopy; 21st May 2006 at 02:41.
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Same goes for many places, DXB beeing one of them: If on first contact we have to state A/C type and ATIS code and STAR, shouldn't the active runway and QNH be clear by then? Apparently not, because try not to read back the runway or QNH, given again by the controller, and you'll be very kindly reminded to read back.
Waste of time if the ATIS code matches.
Waste of time if the ATIS code matches.
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isn't there a reason why there is a PDC number so we don't have to pick up and read back the entire clearence.....we might as well as forget about PDC and just call them for the clearence.
A bit like calling ready (or fully ready if you’re a pom) and being told to hold-short despite not having been cleared to do anything else and being stationary at the holding point. It’s somewhat irritating to those of us who never make mistakes… (typos excepted)
Chimbu, I was working up some outrage but then I read your words of wisdom and just settled back with another cold beer instead. Barbican, of course.
But I must disagree on one point: The Dubai clearance process inevitably begins with…
“Dubai ground, Coconut 123.” (Doesn’t have the sense to just say it all at once)
“Coconut 123, Dubai ground go ahead.”
“(No longer bothers with callsign) “okay (has been listening to yanks and wants to be one), okay, for Bombay, three five Oh, POB two one Oh.” [POB not required]
“(local atco needs no encouragement to get into the no-callsign thing) What’s your registration?”
“(relaxes now that callsigns are obviously long forgotten) Wictor, Nowember, Rrrrdddddddd-omeo”
“What’s your parking bay?”
“Dubai ground, Assman 123 taxi”
“Say again?”
“Station calling?”
“(Local vaguely recalls training and elects to try callsign again) Coconut 123 say again?”
“BRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH H…..…you copy??”
Love it.
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Hey Duck guy,
Perhaps you could find the page where INSHALA features in the middle east RT manual and post that too...
Amazing, as soon as 120.0 is tuned for Damascus right until the Paki FIR is cleared the normal reply "ABC clear-red to XYZ" becomes "Rog, clear-red to XYZ, inshala"
Perhaps you could find the page where INSHALA features in the middle east RT manual and post that too...
Amazing, as soon as 120.0 is tuned for Damascus right until the Paki FIR is cleared the normal reply "ABC clear-red to XYZ" becomes "Rog, clear-red to XYZ, inshala"
