Emirates EK201 to JFK - 3 Man crew again!
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I would bet HAM-JFK will be operated the came as SIN-MEL etc, not with a heavy crew
PS are we really operating to a place called HAM???
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Hi guys I've read the new EU FTL and thought that might be of interest for you at EK as well. I was going over same subject with QR as planning of some flights initially seemed to be far fetched from reality. After having done some research on that, not in my favour, that’s what I’ve found.
4. Operational Robustness
4.1. Planned schedules must allow for flights to be completed within the maximum permitted flight duty period. To assist in achieving this, operators will take action to change a schedule or crewing arrangements at the latest where the actual operation exceeds the maximum FDP on more than 33% of the flights in that schedule during a scheduled seasonal period.
Unforeseen circumstances in actual flight operations - commander's discretion
1. Taking into account the need for careful control of these instances implied underneath, during the actual flight operation, which starts at the reporting time, the limits on flight duty, duty and rest periods prescribed in this Subpart may be modified in the event of unforeseen circumstances. Any such modifications must be acceptable to the commander after consultation with all other crew members and must, in all circumstances, comply with the following: etc…..
Vorsicht, I assume with your comment about no discretion out of base has got its roots in the German Luft B.O. and its comments where lawyers are saying that a company must have standby crew out of base and the discretion out of base isn’t considered as justified and the commander could face possible charges according to the paragraph 58 b of 2 Luft B.O, if I recall it correct.
It must be said that unfortunately there’s no restriction on commanders discretion out of base under UK CAA rules. It’s purely safety based decision.
However it’s still a Commanders’ discretion and it entirely up to him whether to go or not to go for it. I wouldn’t worry too much about disciplinary actions in case he/she doesn't go for it.
Cheers.
4. Operational Robustness
4.1. Planned schedules must allow for flights to be completed within the maximum permitted flight duty period. To assist in achieving this, operators will take action to change a schedule or crewing arrangements at the latest where the actual operation exceeds the maximum FDP on more than 33% of the flights in that schedule during a scheduled seasonal period.
Unforeseen circumstances in actual flight operations - commander's discretion
1. Taking into account the need for careful control of these instances implied underneath, during the actual flight operation, which starts at the reporting time, the limits on flight duty, duty and rest periods prescribed in this Subpart may be modified in the event of unforeseen circumstances. Any such modifications must be acceptable to the commander after consultation with all other crew members and must, in all circumstances, comply with the following: etc…..
Vorsicht, I assume with your comment about no discretion out of base has got its roots in the German Luft B.O. and its comments where lawyers are saying that a company must have standby crew out of base and the discretion out of base isn’t considered as justified and the commander could face possible charges according to the paragraph 58 b of 2 Luft B.O, if I recall it correct.
It must be said that unfortunately there’s no restriction on commanders discretion out of base under UK CAA rules. It’s purely safety based decision.
However it’s still a Commanders’ discretion and it entirely up to him whether to go or not to go for it. I wouldn’t worry too much about disciplinary actions in case he/she doesn't go for it.
Cheers.
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EK201 the 4th left after 0811, EK201 the 7th left at 0905!!! in jan a crew flew DXB-MEL then diverted and flew to MEL duty time was 20 hours.
ALL the captains on those flights were from Australia and are famous in EK.
ALL the captains on those flights were from Australia and are famous in EK.
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Hey Boyz!
The BIG picture....who owns the DGCA? Who owns EK? Huh, see a similarity? You think they not in cohoots with each other? You think they don't decide together...heh heh boyz youre fighting a losing battle, and yea I agree with those of you who said 90% of us are losers cause we don't have balls to stick to THEIR rules. ie if you are not up to discretion in DXB then don't do it!
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what_goes_up, re-read what I said. That was exactly my point, we obviously do not need a heavy crew for an 8 hour flight. It was a response to the post by readywhenreaching
gatvol2006, about 6 years or so ago the DGCA changed its name to the GCAA. The GCAA is the local aviation regulator.
The DCA which is chaired by the same person who chairs EK runs the airport, a bit like BAA does in the UK.
Not sure which one you were confusing us with
gatvol2006, about 6 years or so ago the DGCA changed its name to the GCAA. The GCAA is the local aviation regulator.
The DCA which is chaired by the same person who chairs EK runs the airport, a bit like BAA does in the UK.
Not sure which one you were confusing us with
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Steady Zomp, steady.....you're drifting there mate.
The 201 will operate 3 crew until 33% go into discretion and then EK will say " gee, how about that!" But it has bought time, standard practise, justlike factoring, you can get away with it for a while and it gives breathing space to scheduling.
The 201 will operate 3 crew until 33% go into discretion and then EK will say " gee, how about that!" But it has bought time, standard practise, justlike factoring, you can get away with it for a while and it gives breathing space to scheduling.
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Discretion....what about the majority of the Indian flights - the scheduled turned around times are way under the Route Manual times, and the ground staff there are told to not worry about the schedule, just follow the standard turn around times, hence you get shafted and need to go into discretion down route.......
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gatvol2006, not even close. If you are going to make sweeping statements, they really ought to be lucid and unambiguous. Otherwise you stand the risk of someone correcting your ignorance,...... followed closely by you going into deep denial. Are you a Gypo by any chance 
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Guys
You might want to read a very interesting thread in "questions" "Captains discretion" on pprune (sorry not sure how to copy across). Similar situation about a 3 crew op from UK to Japan. The Commander in question raises some interesting thoughts.
You might want to read a very interesting thread in "questions" "Captains discretion" on pprune (sorry not sure how to copy across). Similar situation about a 3 crew op from UK to Japan. The Commander in question raises some interesting thoughts.
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you mean this one http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ins+discretion
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Correction
Hey Zomp ....Not True
One of the Captains was from Australia and wrote the rule book in EK on Long haul Operational Flight Time Limitaions in Emirates, and specific Operational plans. Other Captain was not from Australia but would like to be one day......
My view is that the Commercial Department will continue to rule in Emirates until something nasty hapens then the Legal Boys take a microscope to what actually went on in planning and practise. Expecting the GCAA to take an active role in policing FTLs ....nice thought but I have not seen it happening to date
in jan a crew flew DXB-MEL then diverted and flew to MEL duty time was 20 hours.ALL the captains on those flights were from Australia and are famous in EK.
My view is that the Commercial Department will continue to rule in Emirates until something nasty hapens then the Legal Boys take a microscope to what actually went on in planning and practise. Expecting the GCAA to take an active role in policing FTLs ....nice thought but I have not seen it happening to date
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just did my bid for June, and the JFK flights, both of them (201/203) are scheduled to depart DXB 30 minutes later. EK201 goes at 0830 and EK203 goes at 0200 now... this may assist in "on time" departures.
I still won't go into discretion at the start of this, (by EK and GCAA/JAR convention) super-laung haul flight. It would be madness.
I still won't go into discretion at the start of this, (by EK and GCAA/JAR convention) super-laung haul flight. It would be madness.