Are EK Training Captains taking a Pay Cut
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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From: UK
Are EK Training Captains taking a Pay Cut
Am I missing something or are the EK Training Captains being offered less?
Seems to me that if EK invent a new category of Training Captain and pay them less, the average cost per Training Captian drops.
Many other reasons why the whole scheme represents more chipping away but you have to admire the bean counters persistance in lowering costs even at times of crisis....
Seems to me that if EK invent a new category of Training Captain and pay them less, the average cost per Training Captian drops.
Many other reasons why the whole scheme represents more chipping away but you have to admire the bean counters persistance in lowering costs even at times of crisis....
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 76
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From: Dubai
Basically, the plan is:
1. Existing TRI's stay on the same pay.
2. New recruits to the training department will be employed as line trainers only at first, and on half pay. When they become sim qualified (TRI's), they get full pay.
3. In the mean time, a Boeing subsidiary will supply +/- 10 sim trainers at who knows what cost, because there's a shortage of......you guessed it! Sim trainers!
I guess the line can't afford any pilots to go to the sim, so use them as line trainers and keep the airline running. The TRI's get to do less flying and more sim and the third party folks help out!
I don't think this one qualifies as another "cost neutral" plan, because somehow I'm sure that the 3rd party sim instructors will cost more than the 2500 Dhs per month per pilot savings generated by creating line trainers only.
Certainly, the problem could have been avoided if we had enough line pilots, who could then in turn be trained as trainers. Then again, with 25 pilots a day applying to join, who can blame the recruitment people for coming up short? I mean, how does one choose........!
At the risk of sounding cynical, a final thought: this plan is predicated on the assumption that the 200 or so pilots in the next 12 months on the 777 alone are actually going to grace our sunny shores! Otherwise we're going to have an awful lot of trainers not doing much training.
SM
1. Existing TRI's stay on the same pay.
2. New recruits to the training department will be employed as line trainers only at first, and on half pay. When they become sim qualified (TRI's), they get full pay.
3. In the mean time, a Boeing subsidiary will supply +/- 10 sim trainers at who knows what cost, because there's a shortage of......you guessed it! Sim trainers!
I guess the line can't afford any pilots to go to the sim, so use them as line trainers and keep the airline running. The TRI's get to do less flying and more sim and the third party folks help out!
I don't think this one qualifies as another "cost neutral" plan, because somehow I'm sure that the 3rd party sim instructors will cost more than the 2500 Dhs per month per pilot savings generated by creating line trainers only.
Certainly, the problem could have been avoided if we had enough line pilots, who could then in turn be trained as trainers. Then again, with 25 pilots a day applying to join, who can blame the recruitment people for coming up short? I mean, how does one choose........!
At the risk of sounding cynical, a final thought: this plan is predicated on the assumption that the 200 or so pilots in the next 12 months on the 777 alone are actually going to grace our sunny shores! Otherwise we're going to have an awful lot of trainers not doing much training.
SM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 229
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From: Dubai
Its no Pay Rise thats for sure!
You do 12 Duties Training as a Line Training Captain for Dhs 2,500 = Dhs 209 extra a Duty ( just under $30 US )
Note the requirement to do 12 Training Duties . Read the small print below that will not be apparent at the graduation and contract ceremony
That is you will get Dhs 2,500 a month extra for doing Line Training and you only get paid the Dhs 400 for each Training Duty AFTER doing 12 duties
The company consider
Worth knowing is that will get a call from Crew Sked when your Roster will have exactly 12 Duties.Your Roster will include TS Days (Training Standby) and these do not count as a Training Duty so you get no credit unless you are called out to do a Training Duty.Whats sneaky is that if you are now called out on your TS Day to fly you get NO additional duty pay as you were all ready on stand by and it does not count as a Training Duty
On completion of training for LTC (minimum training is for LHS qualification), TC's will receive Dhs 2500/month + 400 Dhs for each training duty on top of the required 12 duties, in addition to basic salary and all other entitlements.
That is you will get Dhs 2,500 a month extra for doing Line Training and you only get paid the Dhs 400 for each Training Duty AFTER doing 12 duties
The company consider
that the new renumeration package fairly compensates the training personal for the duties performed.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 76
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From: Dubai
Well spoken, Uplock. Apparently, the ex line trainers have been asked to come back into the system as well. As a sweetener, they've been promised that they can "write their own rosters" and the trainees will be matched accordingly. I met one just the other day actually. Lucky bugger had just bought a brand new, real Rolex for just 10 dollars in Bangkok! No, honestly, a real one! Come on, guys!
Much like the pilots who consistantly agree to fly on days off for extra money, this is also re-enforcing a system which is broken. It may have short term gain for a few, but someone else pays the price for the crew shortage, in this case the TRI's who can now apply for a special permit to pitch a tent in the training centre as they'll be living there full time anyway!
SM
Much like the pilots who consistantly agree to fly on days off for extra money, this is also re-enforcing a system which is broken. It may have short term gain for a few, but someone else pays the price for the crew shortage, in this case the TRI's who can now apply for a special permit to pitch a tent in the training centre as they'll be living there full time anyway!
SM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 185
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From: In the State of Perpetual Confusion
Originally Posted by disconnected
Am I missing something or are the EK Training Captains being offered less?
Many other reasons why the whole scheme represents more chipping away but you have to admire the bean counters persistance in lowering costs even at times of crisis....
Many other reasons why the whole scheme represents more chipping away but you have to admire the bean counters persistance in lowering costs even at times of crisis....
Perhaps this is a chilling preview of what we might expect from this years pay review?
As far as the promise to write their own rosters - that was the promise on the phone (wink, wink, nod, nod). The paper that prospective returning instructors were required to sign said something different. (Now there's a surprise)
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 80
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New instructors here tend to be be predominantly new Captains with no previous command experience who then proceed to train new F/Os (many of whom have more experience than their trainers) and upgrades. How can a newbie train an upgrade if he has no Command experience?
How do you know an Emirates Training Captain? He will tell you (especially if he's a newbie).
How do you know an Emirates Training Captain? He will tell you (especially if he's a newbie).
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 165
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From: UK
Come on folks - get real
If you are a training captain at EK your roster is written by the training dept. That's it - period. They have to or else they can't co-ordinate the training.
So for Dhs 2500 you give away whatever control you had and say hello to Doha, Karachi, Jeddah, Dhaka, Kuwait, Cairo... shall I go on? After all they want to give trainees as many sectors as possible in as short a time they can.
The other aspect is the old percentage game. Salaries go up, albeit slowly and dragging way behind Dubai inflation. So a fixed price for training gets better every year (percentage wise) After all when did anyone at EK see the overtime rate go up in line with salaries? Every year gets cheaper and cheaper. They love overtime - do the math. The beancounters are now going to get half price TC's on a diminishing index. They must be orgasmic with delight.
And while we are discussing overtime and training - well say goodbye to overtime if you train. Days flogging to DOH and back just won't do it.
As for scabs etc. Get real - the market sets the price. There is always someone to do it for less. (Ask the Aussies) There are some who would train for 1000 dhs extra per month. They probably simply want it on their resume
Pilots are not professionals - dont kid yourselves - For the most part they simply fly to a professional standard. The two are not the same. We are glorified blue collar workers with airlines rapidly ensuring we remain thus.
If you are a training captain at EK your roster is written by the training dept. That's it - period. They have to or else they can't co-ordinate the training.
So for Dhs 2500 you give away whatever control you had and say hello to Doha, Karachi, Jeddah, Dhaka, Kuwait, Cairo... shall I go on? After all they want to give trainees as many sectors as possible in as short a time they can.
The other aspect is the old percentage game. Salaries go up, albeit slowly and dragging way behind Dubai inflation. So a fixed price for training gets better every year (percentage wise) After all when did anyone at EK see the overtime rate go up in line with salaries? Every year gets cheaper and cheaper. They love overtime - do the math. The beancounters are now going to get half price TC's on a diminishing index. They must be orgasmic with delight.
And while we are discussing overtime and training - well say goodbye to overtime if you train. Days flogging to DOH and back just won't do it.
As for scabs etc. Get real - the market sets the price. There is always someone to do it for less. (Ask the Aussies) There are some who would train for 1000 dhs extra per month. They probably simply want it on their resume
Pilots are not professionals - dont kid yourselves - For the most part they simply fly to a professional standard. The two are not the same. We are glorified blue collar workers with airlines rapidly ensuring we remain thus.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
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From: uae
Originally Posted by Snake man
Basically, the plan is:
1. Existing TRI's stay on the same pay.
2. New recruits to the training department will be employed as line trainers only at first, and on half pay. When they become sim qualified (TRI's), they get full pay.
SM
1. Existing TRI's stay on the same pay.
2. New recruits to the training department will be employed as line trainers only at first, and on half pay. When they become sim qualified (TRI's), they get full pay.
SM
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,490
Likes: 32
From: Blighty
I must say when you join EK most of the trainers are good guys, at least on the Bus anyhow. But the odd one or two who had only had commands 1 or 2 years really wanted you to know they were boss. I had one tw*t, who was THE most pedantic idiot i have ever had the displeasure to fly with, it was great watching himself dig a hole, then jumping in. Whilst i merely said like guys do out here "oh i see".
You won't get me applying for training as the control is gone over your rosters, nil, nada. As for the pay, its laughable.
EGGW
You won't get me applying for training as the control is gone over your rosters, nil, nada. As for the pay, its laughable.
EGGW
