low cost in Middle East means: Pilots are sharing their homes
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low cost in Middle East means: Pilots are sharing their homes
IS THIS THE NEW LOW-COST-STANDARD IN MIDDLE-EAST ???This means the airlines making more profit and have their pilots sharing their flats. The company also takes the transportation-allowances shown in the contract and instead of paying the pilots they only can call stupid driving service with non-english speaking and none-area knowing drivers, but only driving to work. And all promised goodies are not given and ignored by the managment. The FOs were hired with the promise to be upgraded in March and April 2006 - 3 months after Startup they got a maybe upgraded after evaliation in 2007. They have 2 aircrafts and get 2 more and have 7 FOs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The company I am talking from : JAZEERA AIRWAYS - KUWAIT
This all is true - told by an ex-colleague at the end of last year. Unfortunately I have not heard anything since December and wondering ...
Is this the new low-cost-standard in Middle East?
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contract violation, or shall i say "creative interpretation" is nothing new nor the exclusive domain of low-cost carriers.
should not be surprised-- someone figures he can do something for cheaper and tries to skimp on the toppings. they then consider themselves financial geniouses and "visionaries"-- that or they just get good money after bad thrown their way by the government (or both).
india is starting to see somewhat of a shakeout happening, i wonder when that might happen in the middle east, but i am not optimistic it will be soon. ego rather than real world economics play a major factor with many of the operations in the region.
should not be surprised-- someone figures he can do something for cheaper and tries to skimp on the toppings. they then consider themselves financial geniouses and "visionaries"-- that or they just get good money after bad thrown their way by the government (or both).
india is starting to see somewhat of a shakeout happening, i wonder when that might happen in the middle east, but i am not optimistic it will be soon. ego rather than real world economics play a major factor with many of the operations in the region.
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apaddyinuk, get a life. Instead of trying to humiliate a fellow forum member, contribute more wisely and constructively. The guy is just alerting other potential candidates of what to find there. Step down from your "high quality English" and help.
In many countries worldwide (and mainly in the ME) you are often and conveniently treated as a Guest. If the worldwide expats were to be real Guests, they wouldn’t be treated like that. It’s very basic unless the Hosts (Sponsors and Employers alike) have a different (and racist) interpretation of the word Guest. Just look around and see the misery in the camps/buildings around where wealth is plenty.
Disappointed but not surprised with news like Jazeera´s.
I know this is not helpful, but it is the reality. As long as the "bean counters" have the heads (nbrs) and the acft are flying, meaning money flowing in everything else it’s a bother, i.e. yr personal/contractual clauses, tech log, etc.. makes you a being a pain and disliked person. Unfortunately for some, but otherwise for others. This the world today. Different rules for the same game (aviation). Ethics and common sense are gone. The bullies will survive... and for the time being I see no sign things will ever change.
"Keep discovering until you find something better".
In many countries worldwide (and mainly in the ME) you are often and conveniently treated as a Guest. If the worldwide expats were to be real Guests, they wouldn’t be treated like that. It’s very basic unless the Hosts (Sponsors and Employers alike) have a different (and racist) interpretation of the word Guest. Just look around and see the misery in the camps/buildings around where wealth is plenty.
Disappointed but not surprised with news like Jazeera´s.
I know this is not helpful, but it is the reality. As long as the "bean counters" have the heads (nbrs) and the acft are flying, meaning money flowing in everything else it’s a bother, i.e. yr personal/contractual clauses, tech log, etc.. makes you a being a pain and disliked person. Unfortunately for some, but otherwise for others. This the world today. Different rules for the same game (aviation). Ethics and common sense are gone. The bullies will survive... and for the time being I see no sign things will ever change.
"Keep discovering until you find something better".
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If I were you I would stay put at al jazeera. Rumor has it that they will play a big part in the Kuwaiti aviation industry which is just starting to get in gear. As we've all seen in the middle-east it's growing faster than airlines can keep up with. Requirements for pilots is mad! And being new in a company still trying to find its feet puts you in a great position. Stick it out and I’m sure things will only get better. Compitition between the national carrier, jazeera and the new airline soon to operate some time this or next year can only be good for us as pilots. KAC are already increasing pay due to loss of capt's and FO's to Jazeera. Fingers crossed it continues to get better...
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well, it is easy to say : "Stick it out" - I am there and I am about to leave...Why should I stay and be further treated as a monkey? I can confirm what sunflyer said. It is true and I am angry about myself not to leave at the very first moment when they put me together with another pilot in the same flat. I tell you, no privacy was possible. But I stayed and hoped for better times.
I cannot tell you more details, because I am still there. But for how long should I stay when I am treated month to month as one of these city-limo-drivers and nothing of the contract becomes true ?????
Not every low-cost-companies in ME is as Jazeera. I would prefer Air Arabia, so far I heard a lot of good things.
@PRNAV1 : It might be, that Kuwaiti aviation is playing a big part in future, but not Jazeera. Or how do you think that Jazeera is able to operate 4 A320s with 6 Copliots only?
@sunflyer : I sent a PM.
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I`m sure everyone is aware, Kuwaiti Aviation is the sick man of the ME. Not at all due to shortage of funds. On the contrary funds are a plenty. Years and yeas of cronyism and high level corruption has brought it to this state. 50 years has slipped by & what a shame, KU was once the pride of the ME. Over the years a general decay has taken place leaving a great void in airline service of any kind. The service on KU was & probably still is, the worst I had ever experienced in my whole life! Unfortunately Al – Jazeera has not come about for the right reasons. It is not about providing sustainable service to the public at a low cost. Management is only interested in one thing, and that is to maximize profits in the quickest possible time. This seems to be the order of the day with quite a few companies in Kuwait. With this, very little of the promises made to crew will be kept. Where ever possible, rules will be flaunt & I quote this from experience after having worked for KU, not too long back. Fortunately Kuwait DGCA has a very strong arm in the aviation sector, hence some level of safety can be expected. However I don`t see much of a future with Al-Jazeera. Start looking for another job right now. When it all comes to a halt, you will have very little notice. Take my word….it will be very, very unpleasant! Joining the company was unpleasant, getting out was a nightmare!!!
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Another Mental Midget Wannabe...
PRNAV1...are you a boy scout? Ok for pilots to share flats? The deterioration of pilot quality of life standards is due to too many guys with your mentality, guys who think it's OK to "stick it out." 
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PRNAV1...are you a boy scout? Ok for pilots to share flats? The deterioration of pilot quality of life standards is due to too many guys with your mentality, guys who think it's OK to "stick it out."
having to share a place to live seems abit too far and i don't know anyone who wants to be put in such a position regardless of the job. i mean this industry should allow us to live where ever we choose, within limits, compfortably enough to have a descent standard of living and importantly with who we want. not with some stranger from god knows where...
sad state of affairs i think
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[QUOTE=fractional]apaddyinuk, get a life. Instead of trying to humiliate a fellow forum member, contribute more wisely and constructively. The guy is just alerting other potential candidates of what to find there. Step down from your "high quality English" and help.
QUOTE]
Yikes, didnt mean to cause offence Fractional, get over it! However, if one is going to make an attempt to take a swipe at those with poor levels of english when this person too has a questionable level of english, I feel it the irony needs to be pointed out. Sunflyer can take it I am sure! 
As for the actual thread, a low cost airline is a low cost airline. I doubt there are many people in the industry unfamiliar with the concept these days. Everything needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and that should be no exception in the Middle East. This is the Ryanair generation (or southwest, or easyjet, however you want to view it) and if one chooses to work for a lowcost airline, one needs to be prepared for what to expect. But at the end of the day its another job which allows you to get your hours up on a type until you find something more suitable.
QUOTE]
Yikes, didnt mean to cause offence Fractional, get over it! However, if one is going to make an attempt to take a swipe at those with poor levels of english when this person too has a questionable level of english, I feel it the irony needs to be pointed out.
Sunflyer can take it I am sure! As for the actual thread, a low cost airline is a low cost airline. I doubt there are many people in the industry unfamiliar with the concept these days. Everything needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and that should be no exception in the Middle East. This is the Ryanair generation (or southwest, or easyjet, however you want to view it) and if one chooses to work for a lowcost airline, one needs to be prepared for what to expect. But at the end of the day its another job which allows you to get your hours up on a type until you find something more suitable.
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@apaddyinuk : After your post, I understood and want to asure, not meaning that it is bad to have a low level of english (including me ) and not at all, that these poor drivers are worse because of their english.
The thing is - and I experienced this when visiting my ex-colleague in Kuwait - by contract they have either a car given by the company or get 100KD (~340 US$) allowance. But instead of getting anything of these two contract-options they are only allowed to ask the internal transportation-service or pay the transportation by themself. And taking the internal transportation service they end up waiting 2 hours for the transportation because the drivers don't understand, where they are and always replying "YES, YES".
Meanwhile I had contact with my ex-colleague and he left in December. But I doubt that all low-cost-airlines are like this. I was thinking because of lack of pilots in Middle East that at least Air Arabia is a good company. Why should pilots still go to a low-cost-airline with that monkey-treatment like Jazeera??? At the moment there are too many other options for pilots instead of risking a position in a company with a bad history. Am I wrong?
) and not at all, that these poor drivers are worse because of their english.The thing is - and I experienced this when visiting my ex-colleague in Kuwait - by contract they have either a car given by the company or get 100KD (~340 US$) allowance. But instead of getting anything of these two contract-options they are only allowed to ask the internal transportation-service or pay the transportation by themself. And taking the internal transportation service they end up waiting 2 hours for the transportation because the drivers don't understand, where they are and always replying "YES, YES".
Meanwhile I had contact with my ex-colleague and he left in December. But I doubt that all low-cost-airlines are like this. I was thinking because of lack of pilots in Middle East that at least Air Arabia is a good company. Why should pilots still go to a low-cost-airline with that monkey-treatment like Jazeera??? At the moment there are too many other options for pilots instead of risking a position in a company with a bad history. Am I wrong?
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sunflyer,
if you have not realised this by now, appadyinuk is a cabin crew!
what would he/she know about the terms and conditions of flight deck crew??!!
back to the topic; it is not uncommon that what we're promised in the contract is different from what we actually recieve in reality.
this has been the practice of many airlines since a long time ago and especially to newly start smaller airlines.
at the beginning, there are bound to be organisational issues. however, im sure this would improve in time IF the airline stabalize.
there's really nothing much you can do now but to wait and hope for improvements or resign and try out for a different airline with better t&c.
if you have not realised this by now, appadyinuk is a cabin crew!
what would he/she know about the terms and conditions of flight deck crew??!!
back to the topic; it is not uncommon that what we're promised in the contract is different from what we actually recieve in reality.
this has been the practice of many airlines since a long time ago and especially to newly start smaller airlines.
at the beginning, there are bound to be organisational issues. however, im sure this would improve in time IF the airline stabalize.
there's really nothing much you can do now but to wait and hope for improvements or resign and try out for a different airline with better t&c.
