Wpt's 'OSAMA' and 'LADEN' in Riyadh FIR
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Wpt's 'OSAMA' and 'LADEN' in Riyadh FIR
Hi chaps.
I was looking at an old (2001,june) Hi Altitude Jepp enroute chart,and in the Riyadh FIR (if i'm not mistaken),toward the Red Sea side,i saw two hilarious waypoint names
SAMA and LADEN.At first,i thought is this for real! l know waypoints are often topically named,like 'CARPE' and 'SHRMP' and 'SHARK' over the atlantic and pacific,for example,or "LIFFY' and 'BOYNE" near the two rivers in Ireland,but how did these two waypoints end up with those names,and that PRE 2001 September 11th?
It just struck me as bizarre.I was wondering if they are still in existance or if they have been replaced?
Flying in that area,perhaps someone can verify,as i dont get the ME H/L charts regularly in the normal course of my flying.
Cheers,Cb
I was looking at an old (2001,june) Hi Altitude Jepp enroute chart,and in the Riyadh FIR (if i'm not mistaken),toward the Red Sea side,i saw two hilarious waypoint names
SAMA and LADEN.At first,i thought is this for real! l know waypoints are often topically named,like 'CARPE' and 'SHRMP' and 'SHARK' over the atlantic and pacific,for example,or "LIFFY' and 'BOYNE" near the two rivers in Ireland,but how did these two waypoints end up with those names,and that PRE 2001 September 11th?It just struck me as bizarre.I was wondering if they are still in existance or if they have been replaced?
Flying in that area,perhaps someone can verify,as i dont get the ME H/L charts regularly in the normal course of my flying.
Cheers,Cb
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You guys have not much knowledge about the Arabian culture, do you? Osama is a very common name, as is Laden. It might be possible that someone played games with names, but this is not about upsetting you. I'm pretty sure you will find some 5 letter fix in USA reffering to Nixon, Bush jr+sen, Reagan, CIA, NSA ..., who's name do not have the same meaning in your world as it has in others... 
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cb
The only thing bizarre here is your ignorance and lack of education, as Dani said these are common Arabic names , and if Big Mac is the highlight of your name reckognition and language skills than stick to it.
At least as a pilot you have the opportunity unlike millions of other CNN brainwashed mac consumers to educate yourself about other cultures , since apparently you had access to this part of the world before famous 9/11 . BTW speaking of which ...where are all the cameras gone from pentagon so no one has seen the ghost plane that hit it?
At least as a pilot you have the opportunity unlike millions of other CNN brainwashed mac consumers to educate yourself about other cultures , since apparently you had access to this part of the world before famous 9/11 . BTW speaking of which ...where are all the cameras gone from pentagon so no one has seen the ghost plane that hit it?
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if i'm not mistaken, there's a waypoint PERDU pretty close to a major aircraft manufactoring site. my french knowledge tells me that this means lost, reflecting the feeling a lot of pilots flying the products of that factory very often endure.
but i might be wrong and will most certainly be lectured by some about my ignorance of the french culture.
ttn
but i might be wrong and will most certainly be lectured by some about my ignorance of the french culture.
ttn
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Well for my part,i can say with 100% honesty that i love the middle east and i find its rich culture and astonishingly hospitable people fantastic.I've visited the Arabian peninsula on vacation numerous times...been to Muscat,Nizwa,Dubai,Abu Dhabi,Al Ain,Sharjah,Khor Fakkan,Bahrain,as well as all over Egypt.
i certainly DO NOT share RATPOISON'S view that it is a ****hole.I think The USA and Britain,amongst other places,have a lot to learn from the middle east.Given half a chance and a job at EK,i'd be there in an instant.
that said,what astounds me is that a waypoint can be called "RAGED" for example.Pronounced "Rag-Head" it spells out a very common form of derogatory,ignorant western referrence to an arab male.That is an insult and it surprises me it exists.clearly an Arab aviation authority didn't think THAT name up.If this is the case,then by the same logic they could'nt have named "OSAMA" or "LADEN"? why,if the theme is common arabic names,is there no wpt "ABDUL" or "FAISL" or "MHMED",for example?
Please don't read this post wrongly,i'm just stating a strange observation i noted on the charts.
Cheers,Cb
i certainly DO NOT share RATPOISON'S view that it is a ****hole.I think The USA and Britain,amongst other places,have a lot to learn from the middle east.Given half a chance and a job at EK,i'd be there in an instant.
that said,what astounds me is that a waypoint can be called "RAGED" for example.Pronounced "Rag-Head" it spells out a very common form of derogatory,ignorant western referrence to an arab male.That is an insult and it surprises me it exists.clearly an Arab aviation authority didn't think THAT name up.If this is the case,then by the same logic they could'nt have named "OSAMA" or "LADEN"? why,if the theme is common arabic names,is there no wpt "ABDUL" or "FAISL" or "MHMED",for example?
Please don't read this post wrongly,i'm just stating a strange observation i noted on the charts.
Cheers,Cb
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You'd be a bit upset to learn that NIGGA exists as well then, and yes, it is in Africa. Whilst we are on the subject of sterotypical derogatory names, you might be interested to know that SEKSI is on the way to Thailand, I think it's just past NIPEL!
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rat poison
What disturbs me most is ratpoison's attitude, he seem full of hate maybe an upbringing issue or he worked at it . he should take some ratpoison and maybe there might be some peace on earth with less people like him around
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Captain CB, well, now that we have cleared that problem we can discuss the matter. I agree that there are a lot of hints to rude words not appropriate to the sake of aviation.
I don't know who invents all these names and sometimes they are really funny, something that doesn't always really match to a "boring" state runned aviation authority.
Talking about your example I can say that:
Osama Bin-Laden was until the 1990s a well respected person in the Saudi population (for some he still is, mainly in poorer countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Palestine). And if I'm not completly wrong this was also the case in the U.S. during the war of Al-Qaida against the U.S.S.R.
RAGED could also be read as ragged, suitable for a desert country, or raged. (Keep in mind that Asians/Arabs do not always have the same level of knowledge of the English language.) And deadly he, Bin-Laden, was for sure, it's a virtue for an Arabian freedom fighter. You have to accept the fact that some historical events do not have the same meaning for an Arab as for an American citizen.
I think that in other parts of the modern world, 5 letter fix have changed so much, that they do not mean anything anymore and come out of the computer. Although they sound strange and boring, they do not make any reference anymore and they might be political correct.
Dani
I don't know who invents all these names and sometimes they are really funny, something that doesn't always really match to a "boring" state runned aviation authority.
Talking about your example I can say that:
Osama Bin-Laden was until the 1990s a well respected person in the Saudi population (for some he still is, mainly in poorer countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Palestine). And if I'm not completly wrong this was also the case in the U.S. during the war of Al-Qaida against the U.S.S.R.
RAGED could also be read as ragged, suitable for a desert country, or raged. (Keep in mind that Asians/Arabs do not always have the same level of knowledge of the English language.) And deadly he, Bin-Laden, was for sure, it's a virtue for an Arabian freedom fighter. You have to accept the fact that some historical events do not have the same meaning for an Arab as for an American citizen.
I think that in other parts of the modern world, 5 letter fix have changed so much, that they do not mean anything anymore and come out of the computer. Although they sound strange and boring, they do not make any reference anymore and they might be political correct.
Dani
Last edited by Dani; 20th Dec 2005 at 05:25.
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i can say with 100% honesty that i love the middle east and i find its rich culture and astonishingly hospitable people fantastic.
ing funny.
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Hah hah Capt C I love that waypoint you suggested, definately appropriate
As a matter of interest someone in Brissy has a real sense of humour. The 19 arrival from the south is via leaky, boats and sinkk, from the north its via drain and plugg.
As a matter of interest someone in Brissy has a real sense of humour. The 19 arrival from the south is via leaky, boats and sinkk, from the north its via drain and plugg.
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Captain Cumulonimbus,
I would not dare to drawn that conclusion for the middle east so fast...(hospitality.....maybe regarding the tourist not for the labour!!!)
Coming in the middle east for vacation as you did, may be very pleasant.
Coming in the middle east and STAY here for work,unfortunatly may be a totally different story!
Cheers.
P.S:
Do you known for example that just for the city of Dubai everyday 1 or 2 labour (expat of course,mainly from asia)suicide themself because they can not support their condition and the way they are treated. Did you visit one of those labour camp during your holiday...?(Some of those camp i would not even dare to let my dog there!)...probably not because this, is not is the touristic book.....
No, really personnaly i would be very carefull when using the term \"hospitality\" in this part of the world.
I would not dare to drawn that conclusion for the middle east so fast...(hospitality.....maybe regarding the tourist not for the labour!!!)
Coming in the middle east for vacation as you did, may be very pleasant.
Coming in the middle east and STAY here for work,unfortunatly may be a totally different story!
Cheers.
P.S:
Do you known for example that just for the city of Dubai everyday 1 or 2 labour (expat of course,mainly from asia)suicide themself because they can not support their condition and the way they are treated. Did you visit one of those labour camp during your holiday...?(Some of those camp i would not even dare to let my dog there!)...probably not because this, is not is the touristic book.....
No, really personnaly i would be very carefull when using the term \"hospitality\" in this part of the world.
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Oh yeah,point taken sir,but i'd contend ANYWHERE in the "3rd world' or parts thereof that are a mixture tends to treat its less educated expat workers very poorly.Its not just the ME,we have awful treatment of Mozambican and Zimbabwean workers here in SA and it seems the same goes for Philipinos and mexicans in the US...its a sad fact of the capitalist world that the poorest,least able to defend themselves are exploited.
point taken but i was just stating my own experiences,both from holiday and work over there.
Cheers.Cb
point taken but i was just stating my own experiences,both from holiday and work over there.
Cheers.Cb
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There's a nice waypoint in Germany "Harem"
"Perdu" is in France, and as somebody correctly pointed out, means lost.
Wonder if the isn't a waypoint near the french town of Condom by a similar name...
"Perdu" is in France, and as somebody correctly pointed out, means lost.
Wonder if the isn't a waypoint near the french town of Condom by a similar name...