What are the limits at EK?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Stoking the barbie
What are the limits at EK?
Does anybody happen to know what the yearly limits on our flying are, because it seems our management are confused.
I know of a couple of pilots over 1000 block hours in 365 days and a quite a few more over 900 hours.
As far as I know the waiver the GCAA gave us with respect to this ran out at the end of March, so I presume we are limited to the 900 in 365 as per the FOM.
Beacause it raises more than a few questions.
1: Are we insured to fly with crews over 900 hours?
2: Why are are management in denial over this, they communicate all kinds of trivia to us on a regular basis, but something that is crucial to our legality is purposefully kept abiguous.
3: Does VP "SHAM" have any idea of what he is doing?
4: Will newly minted SVPFO go into his usual, "it happened before I got here routine
5: What will the GCAA do when it finds out?
I feel violated..........
I know of a couple of pilots over 1000 block hours in 365 days and a quite a few more over 900 hours.
As far as I know the waiver the GCAA gave us with respect to this ran out at the end of March, so I presume we are limited to the 900 in 365 as per the FOM.
Beacause it raises more than a few questions.
1: Are we insured to fly with crews over 900 hours?
2: Why are are management in denial over this, they communicate all kinds of trivia to us on a regular basis, but something that is crucial to our legality is purposefully kept abiguous.
3: Does VP "SHAM" have any idea of what he is doing?
4: Will newly minted SVPFO go into his usual, "it happened before I got here routine
5: What will the GCAA do when it finds out?
I feel violated..........
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Stoking the barbie
Yep BW, you are right, however, the problem still stands.
My understanding is that if you are over 900 hours according to the CARS, you get a month off. Unless of course you are in your bottom bid month, then you get standby
My understanding is that if you are over 900 hours according to the CARS, you get a month off. Unless of course you are in your bottom bid month, then you get standby
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Narnia
Guys,
I had the same query a few months ago regarding annual totals and 'factoring'.
Having spoken to our fleet management the answer was that the factoring only applied during the life of the FCI that was issued, and after it expired our flying hours were to be counted one for one, and that the scheduling managers were aware of this.
The FCI concerned and the resultant factoring only applied from 21/8/2004 - 21/2/2005. I believe that scheduling are still using the factoring for their FTL calculations.
I had the same query a few months ago regarding annual totals and 'factoring'.
Having spoken to our fleet management the answer was that the factoring only applied during the life of the FCI that was issued, and after it expired our flying hours were to be counted one for one, and that the scheduling managers were aware of this.
The FCI concerned and the resultant factoring only applied from 21/8/2004 - 21/2/2005. I believe that scheduling are still using the factoring for their FTL calculations.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: London
Factoring was never legal. Use it for your calculations between those dates if it makes you feel better. But if you have exceeded 900hrs in the previous 12 months ending the previous month then contact your chief pilot or fleet manager and politely inform them. You should be then removed from flying for the rest of the month. As far as the law is concerned, the buck stops with us. Bottom line.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Stoking the barbie
Just flew a couple of days ago with someone who has around 950 hours in the last 365 days, this is the lowest total he has had in several months.
Question is, as a fellow crew member, if I know this, what am I meant to do??
Question is, as a fellow crew member, if I know this, what am I meant to do??
could stick their head above the parapet 
and ask the GCAA 
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: some dive
exactly BBJ, not much of a decision to make there. But EK loves the cowards who will take the risk. I would say that half the flights are very suspect, but as I have said before, the German CAA are keeping a very close eye on this outfit. Their fuel bill problems will just begin if they have to go around Germany rather than through it. !!!
Last edited by ratpoison; 21st June 2005 at 08:40.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Dubai
The way I see it is really simple. As an individual and as a company we have to explicitly follow the limits of the FOM, unless there is a current FCI that supersedes or modifies what is in the FOM.
Any FCI to do with FTL's has to be agreed with the GCAA.
Currently there is no relevant FCI of any description, therefore we follow the restrictions of the FOM, end of story.
So, no grey areas, unless of course you are unable to crew the aircraft, then things might become more blurrrred
Any FCI to do with FTL's has to be agreed with the GCAA.
Currently there is no relevant FCI of any description, therefore we follow the restrictions of the FOM, end of story.
So, no grey areas, unless of course you are unable to crew the aircraft, then things might become more blurrrred
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Dubai,UAE
good friend mentioned to the TRE at his last recurrent sim that he was at 1000 hrs, TRE went straight to GCAA (which being a GCAA rep on that day he is legally bound to do), my friend has been doing Sim Support for the past month instead of flying. He is not alone either!
Dooner
Dooner
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: overthere
I must be a bit slow. We are to only log the bit we do in the seat while being the augmenting crew. But 100% of flight hours done count towards towards the 900hrs etc. So how do we know if we are close to the 900hrs if we only log a bit of it?
I am sure I have read it wrong.
Don
I am sure I have read it wrong.
Don
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Dubai
Mirrors and smoke Don, just there to confuse you. My logbook belongs to me, it has nothing to do with what EK management policy happens to be this week!
Interesting reading the FCN, I note that the GCAA is not on the distribution list, I wonder if our lot sent it to them for approval before issuing?
Still, now that it is finally out in writing, it almost makes us legal, as we can now follow company policy.
Just noticed, it is a FCN, not a FCI, does this mean that the GCAA does not get a copy.
Do they know
Interesting reading the FCN, I note that the GCAA is not on the distribution list, I wonder if our lot sent it to them for approval before issuing?
Still, now that it is finally out in writing, it almost makes us legal, as we can now follow company policy.
Just noticed, it is a FCN, not a FCI, does this mean that the GCAA does not get a copy.
Do they know
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 117
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From: London
outrageous!
So they are continuing to apply factoring for the period they say the FCI was current. Predictable really but one key question remains. If factoring is no longer considered acceptable by the GCAA, (presumably for the good reason of flt safety) then why are they continuing to factor?
I do not consider it acceptable for a pilot to fly 1000+ hours this year when by end April 06 it will be grossly illegal? It is an inconsistent policy.
I do not consider it acceptable for a pilot to fly 1000+ hours this year when by end April 06 it will be grossly illegal? It is an inconsistent policy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Stoking the barbie
I have it from a reliable source that over 70 Capt and First Officers are over the 900 hours limit at the end of June (unfactored), so from a managements perspective this FCN is crucial to keep the fleet going.
There is no doubt if the GCAA approves the FCN then it is legal, if they have not, then our managers are either stupid or negligent
The only thing the FCN does is place liability totally on the managers and company, so if a high hours pilot does scr*w up he probably can't be accused of violating the regs.
Discussions about 1000 hours have little importance as it is not reflected anywhere (yet) in the regs.
There is no doubt if the GCAA approves the FCN then it is legal, if they have not, then our managers are either stupid or negligent
The only thing the FCN does is place liability totally on the managers and company, so if a high hours pilot does scr*w up he probably can't be accused of violating the regs.
Discussions about 1000 hours have little importance as it is not reflected anywhere (yet) in the regs.