Why the sudden interest in Alexandria?
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From: Somewhere over there
Qatar Airways expand in Egypt (new destination)
QR have announced they will begin 3x weekly A320 flights on the DOH-ALY route.
Wow, it seems Alexandria (ALY and HBE) are on a roll lately. In the last few weeks Austrian Airline, Oman Air, Gulf Air and Emirates have announced new flights to Egypt's second city.
Wow, it seems Alexandria (ALY and HBE) are on a roll lately. In the last few weeks Austrian Airline, Oman Air, Gulf Air and Emirates have announced new flights to Egypt's second city.
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From: Somewhere over there
I'm assuming you're talking about ALY (Al Nozha Airport) in which case the trees aren't the only problem. The vertical expansion of buildings in the surround area is becoming a mater of concern for approaching aircraft and the facilities are quite small. This summer SV will have a daily ALY service (4 from JED, 3 from RUH).
I doubt any major refirbishments will haapen at ALY as the authorities are planning to close it down (in 2008) and move all operations to HBE (Borg Al Arab airport) which is currently served by Air Arabia, British Airways, TUI Belgium and Emirates. Hopefully by then the authorities would have improved transportation links between HBE and Alex city centre which has been the main reason airlines have avoided HBE till now even though its facilities are better than ALY's
Besides it seems strange an MD-90 would face 'severe' payload restriction on a relatively short flight even if the runway is short/restricted.
I doubt any major refirbishments will haapen at ALY as the authorities are planning to close it down (in 2008) and move all operations to HBE (Borg Al Arab airport) which is currently served by Air Arabia, British Airways, TUI Belgium and Emirates. Hopefully by then the authorities would have improved transportation links between HBE and Alex city centre which has been the main reason airlines have avoided HBE till now even though its facilities are better than ALY's
Besides it seems strange an MD-90 would face 'severe' payload restriction on a relatively short flight even if the runway is short/restricted.
Thread Starter
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From: Somewhere over there
Thanks mutt. I wasn't aware it had such an impact.
By the way, how are SV doing in Egypt. I have a few questions if you don't mind?
-Last year SV had 3x daily flights to Cairo (year round) and now its 2x daily with a 3rd daily flight during the peak summer season only. On the other hand Egyptair have increased flights to 3x daily year round and plan to add 3 more weekly flights. Why have SV done this? I know there RUH-CAI flights increase from 1x daily to 3x daily during the summer which is an impressive increase.
-Also how are loads on their ALY route?
-I know this summer they plan 2x weekly MD-90 flights routing RUH-JED-SSH-JED-RUH, but I think last year RUH had its one dedicated flights to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH).
-And finally has SV ever served Luxor?
By the way, how are SV doing in Egypt. I have a few questions if you don't mind?
-Last year SV had 3x daily flights to Cairo (year round) and now its 2x daily with a 3rd daily flight during the peak summer season only. On the other hand Egyptair have increased flights to 3x daily year round and plan to add 3 more weekly flights. Why have SV done this? I know there RUH-CAI flights increase from 1x daily to 3x daily during the summer which is an impressive increase.
-Also how are loads on their ALY route?
-I know this summer they plan 2x weekly MD-90 flights routing RUH-JED-SSH-JED-RUH, but I think last year RUH had its one dedicated flights to Sharm El Sheikh (SSH).
-And finally has SV ever served Luxor?
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From: ME
Your questions relate to marketing and are totally out of my scope of responsibility or knowledge... sorry!
I'm usually only concerned with loads on flights to my favourite destinations, Eqypt isnt on that list!
Mutt.
I'm usually only concerned with loads on flights to my favourite destinations, Eqypt isnt on that list!
Mutt.
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From: Kot Addu
airmemphis, last week justplanes reported British Airways are to launch service from Gatwick to Hurghada and Sharm el Sheikh through their franchise partner GB Airways using A320's so you have BA proper and two of their franchisee's(BMed, GB) flying in too, how have the Egyptian govt allowed this?
I believe last year they had refused Philippine Airlines to fly Manila-Riyadh-Cairo with their own A340's after MS quit Manila and PR's code share ended with that, so why they do such things?
I believe last year they had refused Philippine Airlines to fly Manila-Riyadh-Cairo with their own A340's after MS quit Manila and PR's code share ended with that, so why they do such things?
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From: Somewhere over there
newscaster, I can't see why the Egyptian authorities would say no considering the UK-Egypt bi-lateral is quite liberal. SD and for a short time IY were granted rights on the CAI-LHR route.
Besides MS already operate
-CAI-LHR
-LXR-LHR
-SSH-LHR
and BA (thru partners too)
-CAI-LHR
-HBE-(BEY)-LHR (no traffic rights on BEY-HBE sector)
....and soon
-SSH-LGW
-HRG-LGW
Also bear in mind Astraeus have scheduled flights between the two countires
LGW-SSH (3x weekly B752)
MAN-SSH (1x weekly B73G)
As for Philippine Airlines applying to serve MNL-RUH-CAI that was only a rumour. If indeed that was true it was probably refused because PAL wanted traffic rights on the RUH-CAI sector which the Egyptian authorities would not grant to protect Egyptair (the Middle East is MS's most profitable market).
-AF currently fly CDG-CAI-RUH with no rights between CAI-RUH
-KE currently fly ICN-DXB-CAI with no rights between DXB-CAI
-LH will start FRA-CAI-DMM flights this October with no traffic rights between CAI-DMM.
The only exception is SQ who fly SIN-DXB-CAI with full passenger traffic rights between DXB and CAI.
The Egyptian authorities are quite protective of Egyptair (as it is a government owned airline) so they try to minimise any other airline competing against it besides the official carrier from the destination country. Unfortunately this also has a negative effect on private Egyptian airlines, as all 9 of them are restricted to the charter market so not to 'step on the toes' of Egyptair.
There has been talk that authorities would become more lenient (and it has changed slightly) but it might take time before the Egyptian market is truely liberalised.
Besides MS already operate
-CAI-LHR
-LXR-LHR
-SSH-LHR
and BA (thru partners too)
-CAI-LHR
-HBE-(BEY)-LHR (no traffic rights on BEY-HBE sector)
....and soon
-SSH-LGW
-HRG-LGW
Also bear in mind Astraeus have scheduled flights between the two countires
LGW-SSH (3x weekly B752)
MAN-SSH (1x weekly B73G)
As for Philippine Airlines applying to serve MNL-RUH-CAI that was only a rumour. If indeed that was true it was probably refused because PAL wanted traffic rights on the RUH-CAI sector which the Egyptian authorities would not grant to protect Egyptair (the Middle East is MS's most profitable market).
-AF currently fly CDG-CAI-RUH with no rights between CAI-RUH
-KE currently fly ICN-DXB-CAI with no rights between DXB-CAI
-LH will start FRA-CAI-DMM flights this October with no traffic rights between CAI-DMM.
The only exception is SQ who fly SIN-DXB-CAI with full passenger traffic rights between DXB and CAI.
The Egyptian authorities are quite protective of Egyptair (as it is a government owned airline) so they try to minimise any other airline competing against it besides the official carrier from the destination country. Unfortunately this also has a negative effect on private Egyptian airlines, as all 9 of them are restricted to the charter market so not to 'step on the toes' of Egyptair.
There has been talk that authorities would become more lenient (and it has changed slightly) but it might take time before the Egyptian market is truely liberalised.
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From: Kot Addu
In winter KE were flying nonstop ICN-CAI with A332 and summer schedules also showed it as nonstop wbut with 772ER, while DXB was nonstop with A332/A333 and just A332 with the summer schedule.
I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises.
Even for Addia Ababa they were in with BMed A320 and ex-Kenya franchie Regional Air 737-200.
I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises.
Even for Addia Ababa they were in with BMed A320 and ex-Kenya franchie Regional Air 737-200.
Last edited by newscaster; 5th May 2005 at 14:14.
Thread Starter
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From: Somewhere over there
newscaster,
The 3x weekly non stop 772 flights you see is an error and if you check the flight number you'll see its MS9731, so it seems Egyptair (who codeshare with KE on the route) have messed up their ICN schedule.
For the summer KE flights to CAI are:
KE951 ICN/CAI 21:30/09:10 M-W-F-- A333 via DXB
KE952 CAI/ICN 11:10/08:20 -T-T-S- A333 via DXB
In the winter (from 31/10/05) they will have 2x weekly non-stop flights with B772.
"I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises."
Well GB Airways and British Mediterranean are independant airlines and they are not owned by BA. And remember Astraeus also have scheduled flights from London to Egypt. So in theory there are 4 UK airlines operating scheduled flights to Egypt
The 3x weekly non stop 772 flights you see is an error and if you check the flight number you'll see its MS9731, so it seems Egyptair (who codeshare with KE on the route) have messed up their ICN schedule.
For the summer KE flights to CAI are:
KE951 ICN/CAI 21:30/09:10 M-W-F-- A333 via DXB
KE952 CAI/ICN 11:10/08:20 -T-T-S- A333 via DXB
In the winter (from 31/10/05) they will have 2x weekly non-stop flights with B772.
"I thought BA would only be allowed in on their own and not through differnt franchises."
Well GB Airways and British Mediterranean are independant airlines and they are not owned by BA. And remember Astraeus also have scheduled flights from London to Egypt. So in theory there are 4 UK airlines operating scheduled flights to Egypt
Thread Starter
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From: Somewhere over there
newscaster, I just did alittle research and apparentely the reason KE joined the DXB and CAI flights (even though they've each had dedicated flights for over a year now) is EMIRATES.
Since EK started their daily flights to ICN, its had a huge impact on KE's 3x weekly flights where demand on their flights literally dropped overnight . So to make the route viable they connected it with CAI.
I guess its 'bad' news for CAI to loose a non-stop service but its better than nothing.
Since EK started their daily flights to ICN, its had a huge impact on KE's 3x weekly flights where demand on their flights literally dropped overnight . So to make the route viable they connected it with CAI.
I guess its 'bad' news for CAI to loose a non-stop service but its better than nothing.
Thread Starter
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From: Somewhere over there
Why the sudden interest in Alexandria?
Over the last few weeks many airlines have announced or started new flights to Alexandria and I wanted to know what's the reason for this 'sudden' interest in Egypt's second city. The new services are to both Alexandrian airports; the downtown Al-Nozha Airport (ALY) and new out-of-town Borg Al-Arab Airport (HBE).
New Services:
--Emirates: start new DXB-HBE daily flights with A310s.
--Austrian Airline: started 4x weekly VIE-ALY A319s flights this month
--Royal Jordanian: will begin 3x weekly AMM-ALY flights thru subsidiary Royal Wings with Dash-8s
--Qatar Airways: will start 3x weekly DOH-ALY flights with A320s
--Gulf Air: will start 3x weekly BAH-ALY flights with A320s
--Yemenia: started 2x weekly SAH-HBE this month and will start 2x weekly SAH-ALY flights next week. (why have IY decided to serve both airports???)
Increases in services:
--Air Arabia: just added 3x weekly flights last month, and will add another 4 more flights this month. This will give them 14x weekly A320 on the SHJ-HBE route. (largest international airline in Alexandria)
--Olympic Airways: doubling ATH-ALY flights from 2 to 4x weekly B733/734 flights.
--Kuwait Airways: increasing KWI-ALY flights from 1 to 3x weekly A320 flights
Egyptair have increased some of their ALY-Middle East flights but nothing significant.
Its clear all the new service are by Arab airlines (bar OS and OA) so why the sudden interest?
New Services:
--Emirates: start new DXB-HBE daily flights with A310s.
--Austrian Airline: started 4x weekly VIE-ALY A319s flights this month
--Royal Jordanian: will begin 3x weekly AMM-ALY flights thru subsidiary Royal Wings with Dash-8s
--Qatar Airways: will start 3x weekly DOH-ALY flights with A320s
--Gulf Air: will start 3x weekly BAH-ALY flights with A320s
--Yemenia: started 2x weekly SAH-HBE this month and will start 2x weekly SAH-ALY flights next week. (why have IY decided to serve both airports???)
Increases in services:
--Air Arabia: just added 3x weekly flights last month, and will add another 4 more flights this month. This will give them 14x weekly A320 on the SHJ-HBE route. (largest international airline in Alexandria)
--Olympic Airways: doubling ATH-ALY flights from 2 to 4x weekly B733/734 flights.
--Kuwait Airways: increasing KWI-ALY flights from 1 to 3x weekly A320 flights
Egyptair have increased some of their ALY-Middle East flights but nothing significant.
Its clear all the new service are by Arab airlines (bar OS and OA) so why the sudden interest?
Last edited by airmemphis; 8th May 2005 at 23:55.
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From: universe
Teacher flights for the summer season. It's normal this time of year. Teachers and families from the Gulf return to Egypt for holidays. Anyone going to HBE beware, they do not monitor the ILS and it goes on and off at regular intervals. Ground facilities are poor, if there is more than one aircraft on the ground buses can take ages.
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From: deco stop
tourist potential
As I understand it the Egyptian government is expanding its tourist market to cover the Med coast. There are several big resort developmets under way.
As to why every one is getting in on the act I do not know, the airport terminal is bad, the suport services are bad, and the weather occassionally suffers from wind.!!!!!!
Any more input welcomed.!!!!
Windy.
As to why every one is getting in on the act I do not know, the airport terminal is bad, the suport services are bad, and the weather occassionally suffers from wind.!!!!!!
Any more input welcomed.!!!!
Windy.
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From: Somewhere over there
vfenext, The teacher flights are an annual occurance but they are always operated by charter flights and most route via CAI. I doubt that would warrant the growth by all these airlines. As for HBE, I have flown there around 4 times (BMed from LHR) and I don't think its that bad...the only problem is the lack of adequate transport links to Alex city centre.
Besides the airport is under utilised and at the moment it only recieves 3x weekly A320 flights from BMed/BA, 10x weekly A320 flights from G9 (increasing to 14x weekly this month) and next week EK will have a daily A310 plus IY B738s. My point is that the chances of having any 2 flights sitting on the apron at any one time are low (check flight times) so congestion is not an issue yet.
Itswindyout, yes its true the Egyptian government are currently developing the North coast but that development is currently being concentrated around the brand new El-Alamien Airport which only opened last month ( http://www.airbp.com/airbp/public/news/EL_Alamin.html ) and that caters for the new Movenpick resort (first resort on the North Coast)
As you said the facilities at ALY are quite out dated. The authorities haven't bothered rennovating the airport as until now it handled very few flights so they questionned whether it was worth the investment. It seems that decision has hurt them now and at least to me it was clear that it was only a matter of time before Egypt's second city really developed its air links...I just didn't think it would happen so rapidly.
However things should be looking brighter in the future according to this article.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/737/ec7.htm
What worries me is how ALY will cope over the next 3 years without any planned rennovation/expansion work till it closes down?
Besides the airport is under utilised and at the moment it only recieves 3x weekly A320 flights from BMed/BA, 10x weekly A320 flights from G9 (increasing to 14x weekly this month) and next week EK will have a daily A310 plus IY B738s. My point is that the chances of having any 2 flights sitting on the apron at any one time are low (check flight times) so congestion is not an issue yet.
Itswindyout, yes its true the Egyptian government are currently developing the North coast but that development is currently being concentrated around the brand new El-Alamien Airport which only opened last month ( http://www.airbp.com/airbp/public/news/EL_Alamin.html ) and that caters for the new Movenpick resort (first resort on the North Coast)
As you said the facilities at ALY are quite out dated. The authorities haven't bothered rennovating the airport as until now it handled very few flights so they questionned whether it was worth the investment. It seems that decision has hurt them now and at least to me it was clear that it was only a matter of time before Egypt's second city really developed its air links...I just didn't think it would happen so rapidly.
However things should be looking brighter in the future according to this article.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/737/ec7.htm
What worries me is how ALY will cope over the next 3 years without any planned rennovation/expansion work till it closes down?
Thread Starter
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From: Somewhere over there
vfenext, no one said it'll become a major hub, but its certainly a long over due expansion for a city of several million residents. Besides the combined passenger numbers at HBE and ALY, are still lagging way behind Hurghada (4.1 million), Sharm El Sheikh (3.8 million) and Luxor (1.5 million). And to be honest 'teacher flights' doesn't seem enough of a reason to start such a service.
p.s. and don't worry too much about the ATC, they'll do their job right
p.s. and don't worry too much about the ATC, they'll do their job right