Shifting Sands of EK Terms & Conditions
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Hey Rainforest,
It is normal to have different views and ideas on issues as we come from different background and experience groups, and probably different age groups.
I do believe though that you are missing the point of my views. I am not on this forum to vent my fustration because I have nothing else to do, nor am I here to try to educate Emirates wanabies so that they do not come.
I call things the way they are since in my age I do not need to be politicaly correct. I see EK for what it is and not for what it says it is. I see management trends based on what I have seen in other airlines around the world throughout my career.
Pilots have taken unpaid leave and have gone to airlines around the world for short term contracts from my previous airline and when they have come back we have discussed the issues concerning those airlines, and I tell you they said the same things that are happening now at EK.
I fly with different FOs every day and not one guy that I have flown with is optimistic, and most of them want to leave EK at some point. I do not hear any of them saying that they want to stay here for the long term. Now that is a sign of company moral at present, and I am sure that if I had been here a few years back things would have been different all together.
The airline belongs to its owners, but it also belongs to the employees too. It is the employees that interact with the customers, it is the employees that make the mood in the work place, and it is the employees that put up with what management sends down. You will tell me that you cannot fight here and that you cannot unite here at EK. You are probably right, but you must also look then at the reality of things. T&Cs will drop until the point were they cannot find more drivers, and the daily conversation on the Flight deck will be how good things were and how bad things are today. In the end you will be tired of all this negative atmosphere and if you do stay because you have no viable options then you will look back at your career and see a waste of time.
Energy is being wasted on being pissed off, and being pesimistic. In my view it should be spent on finding a way to get everyone on the same frame of mind, and that is to fight back for your T&Cs, or accept the fact that it is just another job and get on with your lives outside EK and do not pay attention to Emirates.
You might bash me for my blant comments, or you can say that I am drunk when I post, but you cannot say that what I post is untrue or without good intent....
R
It is normal to have different views and ideas on issues as we come from different background and experience groups, and probably different age groups.
I do believe though that you are missing the point of my views. I am not on this forum to vent my fustration because I have nothing else to do, nor am I here to try to educate Emirates wanabies so that they do not come.
I call things the way they are since in my age I do not need to be politicaly correct. I see EK for what it is and not for what it says it is. I see management trends based on what I have seen in other airlines around the world throughout my career.
Pilots have taken unpaid leave and have gone to airlines around the world for short term contracts from my previous airline and when they have come back we have discussed the issues concerning those airlines, and I tell you they said the same things that are happening now at EK.
I fly with different FOs every day and not one guy that I have flown with is optimistic, and most of them want to leave EK at some point. I do not hear any of them saying that they want to stay here for the long term. Now that is a sign of company moral at present, and I am sure that if I had been here a few years back things would have been different all together.
The airline belongs to its owners, but it also belongs to the employees too. It is the employees that interact with the customers, it is the employees that make the mood in the work place, and it is the employees that put up with what management sends down. You will tell me that you cannot fight here and that you cannot unite here at EK. You are probably right, but you must also look then at the reality of things. T&Cs will drop until the point were they cannot find more drivers, and the daily conversation on the Flight deck will be how good things were and how bad things are today. In the end you will be tired of all this negative atmosphere and if you do stay because you have no viable options then you will look back at your career and see a waste of time.
Energy is being wasted on being pissed off, and being pesimistic. In my view it should be spent on finding a way to get everyone on the same frame of mind, and that is to fight back for your T&Cs, or accept the fact that it is just another job and get on with your lives outside EK and do not pay attention to Emirates.
You might bash me for my blant comments, or you can say that I am drunk when I post, but you cannot say that what I post is untrue or without good intent....
R
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A view from the ground
To my EK aviating colleagues,
Take this as you will, I assure you, no malice intended; this is how it is from one of your colleagues on the ground - just an alternative viewpoint to keep things in perspective.
I speak for myself, but I know my words will be echoed by many an Ops Controller, Crew Controller, Flight Dispatcher, Airport Ops guys, Cargo team, Res team, Engg team, etc. etc. who are out here and not fortunate enough to be on a 'Management' package:
At best we earn an average salary of 12-13k Dhs per month ALL-IN. Our rent and utilities all have to come out of that; average price of a small two-bed villa these days is 4-5k per month. Most of us run vehicles (be they rather small to minimise costs). I know that most of us have Bank Loans set up out here to cover the cost of starting a life here - note. We get zero furniture allowance too.
Healthcare - find a suitable clinic / hospital, pay in advance and EK will re-imburse you most of the cost. No such luxuries as EK-Clinic.
Yes we are eligible for Profit Share (IF profit is made) and yes, we are eligible for Business Class travel - IF we can afford the thousand-odd dirhams it now costs to fly return to, for example, the UK.
And NO Provident fund eligibility. Oh, I didn't mention schooling fees, or lack-of either. Or the fact that we too suffer from the crippling exchange rate whenever we take money home - that's assuming we have any left to take home.
So what options do we have:
Leave EK....? Can't. The average Ops Mgr in the UK earns LESS than we earn here. Maybe a move to somewhere like EY....? Possibly, but for the same reasons that most of you haven't flocked there, most of us are unsure too.
Await promotion to the Management Grade we deserve.....? Ain't gonna happen. We just keep getting shafted. Not to mention the fact that we are staring down the barrel of Nationalisation too.
All in all, it's pretty bleak for us too. By all means keep posting your posts about loss of Credit pay, Productivity Pay, Utilities, etc. All I ask is.......
Just spare a thought for the professional, dedicated, hard-working guys & gals on the ground who you interact with on a daily basis.
Happy New Year to you all,
SA.
Take this as you will, I assure you, no malice intended; this is how it is from one of your colleagues on the ground - just an alternative viewpoint to keep things in perspective.
I speak for myself, but I know my words will be echoed by many an Ops Controller, Crew Controller, Flight Dispatcher, Airport Ops guys, Cargo team, Res team, Engg team, etc. etc. who are out here and not fortunate enough to be on a 'Management' package:
At best we earn an average salary of 12-13k Dhs per month ALL-IN. Our rent and utilities all have to come out of that; average price of a small two-bed villa these days is 4-5k per month. Most of us run vehicles (be they rather small to minimise costs). I know that most of us have Bank Loans set up out here to cover the cost of starting a life here - note. We get zero furniture allowance too.
Healthcare - find a suitable clinic / hospital, pay in advance and EK will re-imburse you most of the cost. No such luxuries as EK-Clinic.
Yes we are eligible for Profit Share (IF profit is made) and yes, we are eligible for Business Class travel - IF we can afford the thousand-odd dirhams it now costs to fly return to, for example, the UK.
And NO Provident fund eligibility. Oh, I didn't mention schooling fees, or lack-of either. Or the fact that we too suffer from the crippling exchange rate whenever we take money home - that's assuming we have any left to take home.
So what options do we have:
Leave EK....? Can't. The average Ops Mgr in the UK earns LESS than we earn here. Maybe a move to somewhere like EY....? Possibly, but for the same reasons that most of you haven't flocked there, most of us are unsure too.
Await promotion to the Management Grade we deserve.....? Ain't gonna happen. We just keep getting shafted. Not to mention the fact that we are staring down the barrel of Nationalisation too.
All in all, it's pretty bleak for us too. By all means keep posting your posts about loss of Credit pay, Productivity Pay, Utilities, etc. All I ask is.......
Just spare a thought for the professional, dedicated, hard-working guys & gals on the ground who you interact with on a daily basis.
Happy New Year to you all,
SA.
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crapflying
You may call a spade a spade at times, which some don't like to hear, but your experience certainly shows through. I believe you have called it correctly, and good on you for making the decision you have. I hope to be following soon, and it more than likely will be out of aviation altogether. Another 25 years or so of slashes to T & C's - I don't want to be part of that. And I still laugh whenever anyone mentions the impending pilot shortage. It hasn't happened in the last 20 years I have listened to people talk about it.
seaton approach
I understand where you come from. I think most of my colleagues respect the job you do, and I hope you are treated as such. I just hope you really enjoy your role in commercial aviation, because the T & C's right now may be the best they ever are in your career - sounds pessimistic, but I don't believe we have reached the bottom of the trough yet.
You may call a spade a spade at times, which some don't like to hear, but your experience certainly shows through. I believe you have called it correctly, and good on you for making the decision you have. I hope to be following soon, and it more than likely will be out of aviation altogether. Another 25 years or so of slashes to T & C's - I don't want to be part of that. And I still laugh whenever anyone mentions the impending pilot shortage. It hasn't happened in the last 20 years I have listened to people talk about it.
seaton approach
I understand where you come from. I think most of my colleagues respect the job you do, and I hope you are treated as such. I just hope you really enjoy your role in commercial aviation, because the T & C's right now may be the best they ever are in your career - sounds pessimistic, but I don't believe we have reached the bottom of the trough yet.
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Millerscourt - sorry old chap, never been near a council estate in my life
For someone who professes to not be interested in EK methinks you spend too much time here on this forum, along with your chum "littledicksy".
Oh yes, my dog, cat,wife, kids and myself still like living here in Dubai - SHOCKING!!!!!! Just because there are plenty of issues at EK right now doesn't mean that suddenly Dubai is a crap place to live. Unfortunately MC you seem to tie the two together, as do many people.
For someone who professes to not be interested in EK methinks you spend too much time here on this forum, along with your chum "littledicksy".
Oh yes, my dog, cat,wife, kids and myself still like living here in Dubai - SHOCKING!!!!!! Just because there are plenty of issues at EK right now doesn't mean that suddenly Dubai is a crap place to live. Unfortunately MC you seem to tie the two together, as do many people.
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White knight,
This is the most fun you can have on this website, a never ending stream of fish nibbling away. Wouldnt miss it for the world. Little dicksy, now that is an affectation , are you flirting with me.?
For once we may agree for I too am happy that you enjoy staying in Dubai, long may it be so, you cheeky boy
This is the most fun you can have on this website, a never ending stream of fish nibbling away. Wouldnt miss it for the world. Little dicksy, now that is an affectation , are you flirting with me.?
For once we may agree for I too am happy that you enjoy staying in Dubai, long may it be so, you cheeky boy
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Seaton Approach not much sympathy for you here on a pilots' whinge-site.
If you see yourself as so much worse off, you should do exactly what many many others have: Save your dough, go to a flying school and get a licence. Then go work your arse off in some **** jobs some place before cracking the "big-time". Eventually, after many years, you will have the experience and qualifications to get a job at Emirates although just what the T&Cs will be then is anyone's guess.
Anyone can do it if he really wants to instead of lament others being "better off" and many HAVE.
Apart from the Emirates career, even plenty of flight attendants have done this, having seen how much better off (???) the drivers supposedly are.
Meanwhile whining on a pilots' website about your own situation and how we should be more appreciative doesn't earn you any points from me (or most others I suspect).
If you see yourself as so much worse off, you should do exactly what many many others have: Save your dough, go to a flying school and get a licence. Then go work your arse off in some **** jobs some place before cracking the "big-time". Eventually, after many years, you will have the experience and qualifications to get a job at Emirates although just what the T&Cs will be then is anyone's guess.
Anyone can do it if he really wants to instead of lament others being "better off" and many HAVE.
Apart from the Emirates career, even plenty of flight attendants have done this, having seen how much better off (???) the drivers supposedly are.
Meanwhile whining on a pilots' website about your own situation and how we should be more appreciative doesn't earn you any points from me (or most others I suspect).
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dicksy - unless you're a pretty girl I'm most certainly NOT flirting with you
By the way, and just out of interest, what is the really boring airline (with the really boring forum) that you work for?
Seaton Approach - wrong forum matey! Get yourself an ATPL as Sandigger says and you might do a little (only a little these days) better than you are now
By the way, and just out of interest, what is the really boring airline (with the really boring forum) that you work for?
Seaton Approach - wrong forum matey! Get yourself an ATPL as Sandigger says and you might do a little (only a little these days) better than you are now
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SandIgger
Why do you presume that I should want to go and become a pilot to 'crack' the big-time. WRONG.
And did I mention anything about wanting sympathy or appreciation.....? NEGATORY.
Most of you that know us on the ground both professionally and personally will agree that we have long-since secured the respect and faith of the EK pilot workforce, without which YOU guys would find it a lot harder to do the jobs you do.
And most of you (at least those that are capable of accepting an alternative point of view from one of your ground-based colleagues) will no doubt read my earlier post and take it at the value it was intended - FOR INFO, and as such, will have no problem whatsoever in me chucking in my six-penneth-worth on YOUR precious 'whinge-site'.
Get back to what you do best - whinging. I shall leave you in peace.
Believe Brother,
Appreciate your comments - yes indeed. The bulk of us do really enjoy our role in commercial aviation, probably largely because of the good working relationship we have with you guys.
We shall weather the storm, and get our big breaks down here on Terra Firma - may not be with EK, but we'll get them.
ATB,
SA.
Why do you presume that I should want to go and become a pilot to 'crack' the big-time. WRONG.
And did I mention anything about wanting sympathy or appreciation.....? NEGATORY.
Most of you that know us on the ground both professionally and personally will agree that we have long-since secured the respect and faith of the EK pilot workforce, without which YOU guys would find it a lot harder to do the jobs you do.
And most of you (at least those that are capable of accepting an alternative point of view from one of your ground-based colleagues) will no doubt read my earlier post and take it at the value it was intended - FOR INFO, and as such, will have no problem whatsoever in me chucking in my six-penneth-worth on YOUR precious 'whinge-site'.
Get back to what you do best - whinging. I shall leave you in peace.
Believe Brother,
Appreciate your comments - yes indeed. The bulk of us do really enjoy our role in commercial aviation, probably largely because of the good working relationship we have with you guys.
We shall weather the storm, and get our big breaks down here on Terra Firma - may not be with EK, but we'll get them.
ATB,
SA.
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Shifting Sands of EK Terms & Conditions
It sucks to read the reports from the almighty crystal made individuals (colleagues ???). We all need each other to accomplish any task in Aviation. Most will agree genuinely.
Seaton Approach just tried to "inform" you what he GETS. It may NOT be the proper Forum for some to spell it out, but it does not say anywhere that the Rest of the World & Non-English Language Forum, Middle East is just for pilots...
Ts & Cs is an issue we all keep close to our chests, and I agree we should debate these issues openly BUT RESPECTFULLY with own colleagues from the front seats to others working elsewhere. We all count... whether we like it or not.
Keep the focus on the Ts & Cs. They affect everyone sooner or later. When someone (you think is NOT a pilot) places a post, pls STOP descriminating and reply focussed on SUBJECT only. THANK YOU !!!Shifting Sands of EK Terms & Conditions
Seaton Approach just tried to "inform" you what he GETS. It may NOT be the proper Forum for some to spell it out, but it does not say anywhere that the Rest of the World & Non-English Language Forum, Middle East is just for pilots...
Ts & Cs is an issue we all keep close to our chests, and I agree we should debate these issues openly BUT RESPECTFULLY with own colleagues from the front seats to others working elsewhere. We all count... whether we like it or not.
Keep the focus on the Ts & Cs. They affect everyone sooner or later. When someone (you think is NOT a pilot) places a post, pls STOP descriminating and reply focussed on SUBJECT only. THANK YOU !!!Shifting Sands of EK Terms & Conditions
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Well said Seaton Approach.
It was a pleasure working with you along with many of the EK pilot work force who were a great bunch both professionally and socially.
The minority, such as SandIgger can crawl back into the sandpit
you appeared from.
I with you all luck in your quest for improved T & Cs.
Cheers, Bundanoon
It was a pleasure working with you along with many of the EK pilot work force who were a great bunch both professionally and socially.
The minority, such as SandIgger can crawl back into the sandpit
you appeared from.
I with you all luck in your quest for improved T & Cs.
Cheers, Bundanoon
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Cheers Bundanoon,
Good to hear from you mate.
Put simply:
Forum - Middle East
Topic - Shifting Sands of EK Terms and Conditions
Where's the word P I L O T in all of that.....?
From where I'm sitting we land-lubbers have every right to chuck in our say on this non-pilot-copyrighted, non-pilot-specific topic.
Blue Boy was going to chip in with his say too, but due to the fact that he got p*ssed-up and lost his wallet in the back of one of DXB Transport's charriots, the likes of SandIgger will be spared.
Up the Ops Legends.
Good to hear from you mate.
Put simply:
Forum - Middle East
Topic - Shifting Sands of EK Terms and Conditions
Where's the word P I L O T in all of that.....?
From where I'm sitting we land-lubbers have every right to chuck in our say on this non-pilot-copyrighted, non-pilot-specific topic.
Blue Boy was going to chip in with his say too, but due to the fact that he got p*ssed-up and lost his wallet in the back of one of DXB Transport's charriots, the likes of SandIgger will be spared.
Up the Ops Legends.
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Ok seaton, so you list your complaints about:
And say:
…then tell us you don’t want sympathy. Ok so why add in your “six-penneth-worth”? Thanks for giving us the "ok" to continue posting and whinging and there's nothing wrong with you complaining too but if the intention was (and it sounds that way) to take a cheap shot or shame us all into talking about the weather instead of our TCs then you’re barking up the wrong tree. Why can’t you understand this concept?
“…not fortunate enough to be on a 'Management' package”... sounds like a cheap shot to me but I could be wrong, I guess, and if I am then, ok and sorry, your own dissatisfaction is noted. Thanks for adding your “six-penneth-worth”, whatever that amounts to and I’m sure no one takes any joy in reading about your woes. But re-read it and you might note a shade of irritation in your request that we all take a moment from discussing (whinging about, if you like) our own situation and spare a thought for you.
Maybe we should start a separate thread or even forum where we can all hold two minutes cyber-silence for ALL the other members of the team we’ve thoughtlessly ignored in our selfishness. Thank you, seaton, for reminding us all that we should think of others when we discuss (whinge about) our own selfish positions.
Seriously, start a thread on your side of the tale and you may even find others from your area of the operation have similar or other feelings on the matter.
Well I don’t presume that at all.
It’s just that from time to time, I hear people whine about “how good” pilots have got it and my standard reply is, “go get a licence yourself.” Many others have done it, it isn't hard. Not interested, generally. They’d rather just whine and complain to or about us. Sounds familiar…
Yes see above.
Well it tends to be by and about pilots and since the opening post also mentioned A310 TCIs or TCEs or whatever I think it's safe to say he wasn't complaining about the fate of the baggage handlers, no disrespect to them, especially as you already pointed out, since we couldn't do our own jobs without them, bless their souls!!
Ah yes, the old “if it weren’t for us you wouldn’t be able to… blah blah blah…” Look, no one disputes either of the above FACTS you mentioned so please relax, but by the same token, what would you be doing without aircraft to think about? See? It works both ways but do we harp on about it? No, we’re just trying to whinge about our own TCs and now this has happened. Please don't start a pissing contest.
That didn’t last long!
Yes you guys in Ops are legends, and largely unsung legends at that. We will all have beers one day and laugh about this. Tell "there I was tales", etc. Even Bundanoon, sounds like he’s a legend even if he IS a bit confused about his sly dig. Hey you're not BOTH of those IDs are you???
I look forward to hearing Blue Boy’s flustered complaints about selfish (and lazy???) pilots, also! It’ll give me a laugh, I’m sure. When he finds his wallet… Maybe he dropped it in Cyclone.
Now where were we???
being “…not fortunate enough to be on a 'Management' package”
At best…an average salary of 12-13k Dhs per month ALL-IN.
Our rent and utilities all have to come out of that;
Bank Loans set up out here to cover the cost of starting a life here - note.
We get zero furniture allowance too.
No such luxuries as EK-Clinic.
NO Provident fund eligibility.
Oh, I didn't mention schooling fees, or lack-of either.
We too suffer from the crippling exchange rate
Assuming we have any left to take home.
Await promotion to the Management Grade we deserve.....?
We just keep getting shafted.
At best…an average salary of 12-13k Dhs per month ALL-IN.
Our rent and utilities all have to come out of that;
Bank Loans set up out here to cover the cost of starting a life here - note.
We get zero furniture allowance too.
No such luxuries as EK-Clinic.
NO Provident fund eligibility.
Oh, I didn't mention schooling fees, or lack-of either.
We too suffer from the crippling exchange rate
Assuming we have any left to take home.
Await promotion to the Management Grade we deserve.....?
We just keep getting shafted.
All in all, it's pretty bleak for us too. By all means keep posting your posts about loss of Credit pay, Productivity Pay, Utilities, etc. All I ask is....... Just spare a thought for the professional, dedicated, hard-working guys & gals on the ground who you interact with on a daily basis.
“…not fortunate enough to be on a 'Management' package”... sounds like a cheap shot to me but I could be wrong, I guess, and if I am then, ok and sorry, your own dissatisfaction is noted. Thanks for adding your “six-penneth-worth”, whatever that amounts to and I’m sure no one takes any joy in reading about your woes. But re-read it and you might note a shade of irritation in your request that we all take a moment from discussing (whinging about, if you like) our own situation and spare a thought for you.
Maybe we should start a separate thread or even forum where we can all hold two minutes cyber-silence for ALL the other members of the team we’ve thoughtlessly ignored in our selfishness. Thank you, seaton, for reminding us all that we should think of others when we discuss (whinge about) our own selfish positions.
Seriously, start a thread on your side of the tale and you may even find others from your area of the operation have similar or other feelings on the matter.
Why do you presume that I should want to go and become a pilot to 'crack' the big-time.
It’s just that from time to time, I hear people whine about “how good” pilots have got it and my standard reply is, “go get a licence yourself.” Many others have done it, it isn't hard. Not interested, generally. They’d rather just whine and complain to or about us. Sounds familiar…
And did I mention anything about wanting sympathy or appreciation.....?
Topic - Shifting Sands of EK Terms and Conditions where's... P I L O T in that?
Most of you that know us on the ground both professionally and personally will agree that we have long-since secured the respect and faith of the EK pilot workforce, without which YOU guys would find it a lot harder to do the jobs you do.
I shall leave you in peace.
Yes you guys in Ops are legends, and largely unsung legends at that. We will all have beers one day and laugh about this. Tell "there I was tales", etc. Even Bundanoon, sounds like he’s a legend even if he IS a bit confused about his sly dig. Hey you're not BOTH of those IDs are you???
I look forward to hearing Blue Boy’s flustered complaints about selfish (and lazy???) pilots, also! It’ll give me a laugh, I’m sure. When he finds his wallet… Maybe he dropped it in Cyclone.
Now where were we???
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Post of the Week Award to SandIgger - beautiful prose, great debating. This thread is the best that I can remember - you guys are great.
Well what are you waiting for? Get on with it.
4HP
Well what are you waiting for? Get on with it.
4HP
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Sandy
The likes of Bundanoon and myself (and many others) have for a long time enjoyed a really great relationship with the majority of the EK drivers both at work and socially - AND LONG MAY IT LAST.
So you guys are not happy with your T's and C's. Well guess what - neither are we! Common trend there, but that really IS a whole 'nother topic.
The bulk of this particular topic has, up till now, been contributed to by the pilots. But believe me, there is a vast multitude of other professionals from various fields within (and out of) the aviation industry who read your posts and formulate their own opinions.
We all have a right to contribute if we think that you need a wake-up call coz you're moaning. The fact that that there's a nice, shiny silver Audi limo outside your villa in the morning to deliver you to work, or because you get paid to come in on a day off to work and we don't, does not make me envious or jealous, but it DOES make me think.... Well hey guys, it ain't really all that bad, well is it?
Last point, perhaps there WAS a shade of irritation in my initial post on this topic, and perhaps that irritation is vented more at the EK Mgmt on the ground that influence our T's and C's and shape our future here at EK, rather than you guys. But hey, nobody asked for you to over-react with your rather 'blinkered' reply to my initial post.
Take the opinion like we take yours, and let's keep downing those Golden Ones down the boozer - ASSUMING you are one of the majority which I refer to in my first paragraph above, and not the MINority.
The likes of Bundanoon and myself (and many others) have for a long time enjoyed a really great relationship with the majority of the EK drivers both at work and socially - AND LONG MAY IT LAST.
So you guys are not happy with your T's and C's. Well guess what - neither are we! Common trend there, but that really IS a whole 'nother topic.
The bulk of this particular topic has, up till now, been contributed to by the pilots. But believe me, there is a vast multitude of other professionals from various fields within (and out of) the aviation industry who read your posts and formulate their own opinions.
We all have a right to contribute if we think that you need a wake-up call coz you're moaning. The fact that that there's a nice, shiny silver Audi limo outside your villa in the morning to deliver you to work, or because you get paid to come in on a day off to work and we don't, does not make me envious or jealous, but it DOES make me think.... Well hey guys, it ain't really all that bad, well is it?
Last point, perhaps there WAS a shade of irritation in my initial post on this topic, and perhaps that irritation is vented more at the EK Mgmt on the ground that influence our T's and C's and shape our future here at EK, rather than you guys. But hey, nobody asked for you to over-react with your rather 'blinkered' reply to my initial post.
Take the opinion like we take yours, and let's keep downing those Golden Ones down the boozer - ASSUMING you are one of the majority which I refer to in my first paragraph above, and not the MINority.
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Seaton Approach,
Comparing T&Cs of pilots with T&Cs of other worker groups is not an accurate way of doing things. I am not going to get into who does a more difficult, or a more important job, but rather say that you can only compare your T&Cs with the industry average, and with the T&Cs you were getting last year here at EK or the years before that. The fact that we get a villa or a pickup service from home is irelevant to the topic of t&C errosion. There are other people in Dubai working in other fields getting more money than us, and of course there are others getting less. I do not compare my salary against doctors or petroleum engineers or managers or anyone else. Every ones job is an important one, and we all made our choices about our profession long time ago. This is not a thread for career development or career choices. It is a thread about what the company is doing to our contractualy signed T&Cs and what is the industry as a whole offering in our field.
The fact the company is picking us up is in their benefet by the way, because they get another hour out of us for free and not logged against duty time, so what ever cost they have realy does not match the benefits. They do know that should we be required to come in to work at one hour before departure, that is exactly what people would do thus not enought time to get the pre-flight done and board the aircraft one hour before departure...
By the way I have only met nice people on the ground staff here at EK. Great to work with you guys, and I am sure you also feel the cost cuting end erosion of T&Cs but you must also try to find the solutions within your group of workers...
Comparing T&Cs of pilots with T&Cs of other worker groups is not an accurate way of doing things. I am not going to get into who does a more difficult, or a more important job, but rather say that you can only compare your T&Cs with the industry average, and with the T&Cs you were getting last year here at EK or the years before that. The fact that we get a villa or a pickup service from home is irelevant to the topic of t&C errosion. There are other people in Dubai working in other fields getting more money than us, and of course there are others getting less. I do not compare my salary against doctors or petroleum engineers or managers or anyone else. Every ones job is an important one, and we all made our choices about our profession long time ago. This is not a thread for career development or career choices. It is a thread about what the company is doing to our contractualy signed T&Cs and what is the industry as a whole offering in our field.
The fact the company is picking us up is in their benefet by the way, because they get another hour out of us for free and not logged against duty time, so what ever cost they have realy does not match the benefits. They do know that should we be required to come in to work at one hour before departure, that is exactly what people would do thus not enought time to get the pre-flight done and board the aircraft one hour before departure...
By the way I have only met nice people on the ground staff here at EK. Great to work with you guys, and I am sure you also feel the cost cuting end erosion of T&Cs but you must also try to find the solutions within your group of workers...
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It's a shame that we have now turned on each other. Seaton Approach, I think that I speak for most of the drivers when I say that your efforts are appreciated. That your T's and C's have also been deteriorating is no real surprise when we work for a company that has such disdain for the line employees that are actually out there getting the work done. I would be interested if the erosion has occurred in the area of benefits and allowances (as have ours) and if the company has overtly attacked your actual pay (as the company has with the pilots and trainers with their recent "neutral cost pay adjustment").
I do think that finding out about some of our colleagues situations does lend some perspective - both inside and outside of the company. What it has done for me is realize that as bad as it's gotten, it will probably get much worse. The company is on a draconian cost cutting campaign with very little consideration of the consequences of some of their moves and one need only look at Singapore and the erosion of their package over the last few years to see the potential of just what our package could end up as. With the competitor down the road and their bottomless pockets, I see the pressure on EK continuing, resulting in even more "cost cutting" with no end in sight. As Emirates (and the rest of the industry) have shown, the well of first resort is the employees and their pay and with no ability to balance managements heavy handedness, we are at the start of a long and very painful journey. If we start turning on each other though, it will just make it easier for the vultures to pick our bones.
I do think that finding out about some of our colleagues situations does lend some perspective - both inside and outside of the company. What it has done for me is realize that as bad as it's gotten, it will probably get much worse. The company is on a draconian cost cutting campaign with very little consideration of the consequences of some of their moves and one need only look at Singapore and the erosion of their package over the last few years to see the potential of just what our package could end up as. With the competitor down the road and their bottomless pockets, I see the pressure on EK continuing, resulting in even more "cost cutting" with no end in sight. As Emirates (and the rest of the industry) have shown, the well of first resort is the employees and their pay and with no ability to balance managements heavy handedness, we are at the start of a long and very painful journey. If we start turning on each other though, it will just make it easier for the vultures to pick our bones.
Last edited by 777 Man; 10th Jan 2005 at 08:53.
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777 Man,
I don't think we've turned upon each other, not at all. We're all too professional for that. SandIggers holier-than-thou response to my busting in on his exclusive pilot's forum probably doesn't aid that school of thought much though.
However, the topic of pilot's T's and C's IS openly aired, discussed and whinged about here (in public, and in the eye of a much wider audience) and views, both the for's and the against's, are inevitible. It's nice to see you entertain my particular contribution so positively.
I don't think we've turned upon each other, not at all. We're all too professional for that. SandIggers holier-than-thou response to my busting in on his exclusive pilot's forum probably doesn't aid that school of thought much though.
However, the topic of pilot's T's and C's IS openly aired, discussed and whinged about here (in public, and in the eye of a much wider audience) and views, both the for's and the against's, are inevitible. It's nice to see you entertain my particular contribution so positively.
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Any news on the number of resignations yet? I've heard 1 B777 and an 'unspecified number'(possibly 6- mostly Brits) of Airbus f/o's handed in their notice this month alone. Anybody else heard anything similar?
Last edited by Pontious; 12th Jan 2005 at 08:51.