VISION THREAD (other than colour vision) 2
 

When getting your eyes fixed with LASIK, can the AME see it on your eyes?

Do you have to provide some kind of proof that your vision was within the limits (JAR Class 1) before the operation or can he measure it on the eyes?

I'm also interested in knowing this answer. I searched old posts and I found that there are two ways of finding it at the medical examination.

My question is. If they don't notice it during the first visit is there any possibility that they will find it during renuwal?

If I don't declare surgery and they find it at the first visit, then what happens?

Is there anyone out there who did cheat in some way?

Any information is more than welcome :ok:

Ok guys.......

On the basis of my experience.
in UK (Gatwick) I did not saw any computer to do Corneal mapping and they did not any special examination at my cornea.
So I assume if you don't tell them nothing they are not able to find the laser intervention.
But Lasik and other laser corrections are allowed, if you are inside limits before the intervention so why don't tell them?
Since laser is allowed, is better to admit about the intervention because before practice the visit, you have to sign a paper with your story and there is explicity a question :"Do you had any lasers/lasik intervention at your eyes"?
If you declare NO, you do a false declaration....I don't know what happen.:uhoh:
And even if you pass your initial and in the future will emerge you did laser, should be a BIG BIG problem. Much better tell them as first thing.
I did my laser (RPK) 8 year ago, and no problem at all: 1 class no restrictions.
When you do laser, clearly before the laser intervention, the doctor write your clinic state, included pre-operative myopia and astigmatism: AME will want a copy of this paper. Thats all.

Of course there should be no problem to admit laser/lasik if you fall within limits. Problems come when you're out of those limit before eye surgery.

Can somebody tell me if CAA UK is stricly applying the JAA limits or do they evaluate each situation? I know about the astigmatism limit pre-operation is 2.0 dioptres for first visit. What if I do lasik with 2.25 or 2.50 and have slight miopia (less thank 3 dioptres), any chance to pass? Anyone did have experience like this? I don't want to cheat but I'll do my best to get class 1. Do I have more chance if I already hold an italian class 1 and going to UK after surgery for first time visit? I cannot either do renuwal in italy because don't hold CPL yet and I'm looking forward to do surgery and fly over to the UK.
Any information about this topic will be of help. Thanks!

NO WAY in Italy.
In Italy is not permitted to do laser, so if you did laser and have 0,05 astigmatism and 0,05 myopia, you will be out anyway. Due that i went in UK. ITALY does not apply JAR FCL-3 even if is a JAA nation.

UK apply strictly the limits for initial!!!!
If you are outside limits I suggest:

1 - Ask to AME: if they said you can do it even outside limits and you will be alright if the visit will be ok....you are ready to fly!! :ok:

2 - If they said " NO, even with laser you will not be able to gain 1 class"...well, I suggest to go in USA, get 1 class (you will get it in USA, don't worry) and do CPL FAA. Then come back in UK and go to gatwick: they, on the basis of CPL/1 class ICAO (FAA), will apply to you the renewal limit (no limits for astigmatism and -8 for myopia) even if is a initial.

3 - Don't tell them nothing! And Hopefully does not happen anything in the future.

Thank you mau mau, I never considered option n. 2, and it seems to be the best solution. Do you have a link to FAA medical requirements?
So, if I got it right if I get an FAA CPL with of course an FAA class 1 after the training I can apply for a JAA-UK class 1 and they will apply the renuwal restriction even if I did never show up at gatwick before? After that convirt FAA into JAA and be able to fly in Italy-Europe? Sounds cool.

Are sure that renuwal limits are -8 for myopia and no limits for astigmatism? I though it was 3.0 for astigmatism and 5.0 for myopia or did they change it recently?

I found this:

eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations

Seems to be the official eye requirment to obtain an FAA class 1 medical certificate. It seems strange but I can't find any myopia/astigmatism restriction !! Is that true? Would be great.
I want to be sure about this and about the fact that converting to JAA they do not apply any specific restriction for astigmatism. :confused:

Thanks for help.

But why do you want to work in Italy??! This is a !!!! place to fly and the airlines as well.
Anyway regarding FAA requirements, you will find everything you need on website.
Regarding limits in UK look at follow:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...=90&pageid=531

other usefull info are here:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...=90&pageid=534

"JAR Class 1
The initial refractive error (correction) limit is +5/-6 dioptres. There is no myopic limit for revalidation/renewal. The astigmatism (distortion) and anisometropia (difference between the eyes) initial limits are 2 dioptres, but there are no limits for revalidation/renewal.
NOTE: contact lenses must be worn if the anisometropia exceeds 3 dioptres."


PS: If you hold a FAA CPL, it's not their roule to apply renewal limit....BUT....
They are more free to examine you carefully and apply at their own discretion the limits of renewal. And 90% they will try to meet your need.
Without cpl FAA (icao) instead, they shall scrupulously keep the limits for initial.

Is LASIK painful?
 

After a successful LASik surgery many of my colleagues kept on asking me about “is LAsik painful?” and I always told them that its not, a bite of an ant is more painful than LASik. Anyway, I want to share to everyone here who are planning to have the same procedure but skeptical about the pain, I will tell you that its NOT painful, because you will receive anesthetic eye drops prior to your LASIK treatment which should prevent from feeling any discomfort, though some people do experience a slight sensation of pressure on their eyes during the procedure. Once you return home after LASIK, it is normal for some patients to experience mild discomfort, watery eyes, light sensitivity or blurry vision. These symptoms are usually temporary and treatable with over the counter medication, such as Tylenol. Hope it helps you folks.

Not sure why you wouldnt want to declare you have had lasik/ek surgery.

When i was going through the motions, i asked the CAA and they said its acceptable, however they extra check a few things like glare.

I am pretty sure if your honest or not, it wont change the outcome.

But i may well be wrong....

I recon there are better ways to cheat the test than that...

Don't forget that if you've previously held any CAA medical certificate and you were required to wear corrective lenses/spectacles, the AME may ask a few searching questions if you turn up for a renewal/reissue and are able to see unaided.

Until recently, it used to be the case that the CAA required you to undertake a period of time away from flying/controlling to ensure that satisfactory stability of the eyes.

Best to come clean and admit it.

Yes they will see it!

When I did my initial Class 1 they took a picture of my eyes, measuring the thickness of the cornea etc. The first thing the lady asked me when she looked at the screen was; how long is it since you had laser surgery performed?

I think the required wait before you can apply for a Class 1 medical after you had LASIK done is minimum 6 months. They are however not interested in what your vision was pre-LASIK, only what your vision is uncorrected (and corrected if needed) at the time you do your medical.

Be honest with your AME, playing tricks and covering up things will only come back to you the bad way.

I believe this information to be wrong, stabilized vision is a requirement. I had a 1st class certificate about six weeks post surgery.

It is actually 3 months for LASIK and 6 months for PRK.
JAR Class 1 visual standards as applied by the UK CAA:
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=2189 - See under "Refactive Surgery"

I belive there are, or might be, some small variations from country to country regarding the different limits and wait-times etc.

What I said in my previous post about the pre-op vision is not entirely correct. Your vision pre-op, at least for the UK, should be no worse than +5/-6, but if you're just outside you can discuss your case with the CAA Medical Department.

Amblyopia and restricted class 1 medical
 

Hi peoples,

I have been training for a CPL in Australia and on my initial medical class 1 and 2 I was granted a conditional class 1 and 2 with restrictions due to inferior eyesight in my left eye due to amblyopia.

I passed vision in both eyes, and in my left eye, however i only managed 6/12 instead of 6/9 in my right eye.

The restrictions are:

Valid for Australian airspace only
No rotary wing flying
No mustering or low level agricultural flying.

I am most concerned of course about the first restriction as this pretty much sounds like it blows away any chance of flying for an airline internationally.

I believe that these restrictions are placed because I pass the medical requirements for Australian airspace, but ICAO's vision standards are higher therefore the medical is not valid outside of australia.

Is this the case for me or is it still possible to fly internationally?

Are there any ways around this?

I had a similar problem.

For the FAA you can do a medical flight test, if u pass this, you get an unrestricted medical.

I passed it and they gave me a state of demonstrated ability, if i rock up fo a new medical, i just show this soda, and they give me my new medical (ClassI) without trouble. (And i'm flying rotorwing, not fixedwing)

For the JAA it is a different story, that really depends on the situation....

Thanks for that reply - it definately gives me some hope :)

I gather that means travelling to the USA to do that medical flight test?

Anyone got any suggestions about JAA? what about CAA?

Sorry to hear that....

I am sorry but i am abit confused. How is amblyopia different from other visions problems like short sighted, long sighted or astigmatism?

Is the 6/9 requirement the requirement without corrective lenses? Could corrective lenses or lasik surgery help with the problem of amblyopia?

ivierre

Amblyopia is a condition where the affected eye cannot be corrected by prescription lenses, or otherwise.

I think (and I obviously will stand to be corrected by those who know for sure), that in undiagnosed, (and therefore, uncorrected) amblyopia in childhood, the neural pathways from the eye to the brain do not develop properly, so good vision is never attained in that eye.

If discovered in early childhood, methods such as surgery or eye patching are used to 'force' the brain to accept vision from the defective eye, thus preventing the deterioration in the neural pathways.

Thank you very much and I am sorry to hear that. But do not give up!

Actually, say, how do someone find out if they have Amblyopia or not? except being checked by the specialist? :confused:

Amblyopia exercises have been shown to be effective in Px over the age of 8 years of age (which is at the point that the visual system development becomes hard wired) however they are usually transient improvements. Basically when you stop the exercises the vision returns to is pre-exercise level. However the exercises don’t work with everyone. If you are trying to get from 6/12 to 6/9 which is not a huge improvement I would think the appropriate eye exercises would be worth trying – you just might have to do them every year for a month or so before each medical.

Monocular pilots under JAR
 

Dear all,

I'm looking for some pilots who can share experiences regarding the initial JAR medical examination for monocular pilots.
As I have a waiver issued by the FAA (SODA) for a class III medical, I've been flying for around four years now (200+ TT). Therefore, I would like to see how I can apply for JAR medical somewhere in Europe as well. JAR doesn't seem to be as relaxed about this matter as the FAA, but I would still like to give it a try.
British CAA seems to be more open to this than some other authorities.

If there is someone here with useful vision in one eye and flying with a JAR medical, I would appreciate a (personal) message.

When JAR regulations were introduced I think it was very difficult for monocular pilots to meet medical standards. Things may have eased a little since. Some JAR states (the UK was one) have continued to allow pilots to fly within their areas of juridisdiction if they already held a licence, issuing a Class Two with licence limitations - my licence is only valid in the UK unless I obtain written permssion from other states. Other states may not have fully aligned to JAR- I belive France still licences private pilots in accordance with ICAO class two, which may allow monocular vision under certain circumstances with restrictions. In the UK we currently have a national licence which is regulated by driver standards and allows monocular flying.

Best thing to do is to contact the JAR Authority where you wish to fly (e.g. DGAC in France the CAA in the UK, LBA in Germany)


All this will change in the period 2012-2015 when EASA takes over Flight Crew Licensing in Europe. It may then be possible to meet the standard for a LAPL (Light Aeroplane Pilots Licence) with monocular vision subject ot a flight test, and if ICAO Class Two standards are adopted, for a Private Pilts Licence but the machine is still turining on this.

Alternatively find an N-reg aeroplane to fly- there are loads here in the UK though the rules for flying these may also change under EASA

EASA is also my big hope. Nevertheless, it might be worth giving it a try under JAR. Maybe flight experience helps to convince one of the national authorities in Europe.

I'm currently flying N-regs here. That works out pretty well for me. But as you said, this opportunity might also not be there anymore once EASA rules are in effect. That's what I'm basically concerned about. Otherwise, I would simply stick to my FAA certificate.

German is LBA is pretty hopeless. They are strict about everything, and to my knowledge they won't even consider special issuance in a case like mine.
I wonder how national licenses like the N-PPL in UK will be transformed into EASA licenses. That will be particularly interesting in case of e.g. monocular pilots. Maybe the rest of EASA could benefit from that.

More comments and opinions are welcome (you can also PM me).

hi
i am also monocular and trying to get a jar or caa medical. i was talking to the caa today and they have asked me to get the following form filled out and post it to them for special consideration:
Glasses - any preferences? [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

i would like to hear your story of how you obtained your faa medical and ppl and how your getting on obtaining a jar medical.

- Got my initial FAA 3rd class medical in 2006, carrying restriction: "only for student pilot purposes". Got it from Oklahoma as my AME had to defer the decision due to no useful vision, left eye (< 20 /200). I could solo with this medical, but had to take a MFT (medical flight test) before doing the check ride. Passed both, received a SODA and unrestricted 3rd class medical and, of course, the PPL ASEL certificate

- Having accumulated roughly 250 TT, wanted to apply to initial JAR class 2. Forget about German CAA (the LBA), they won't even consider. Sent an eye examination report to UK CAA, got approval to go ahead with the rest of the initial examination. That was done with an UK AME. Had to do a MFT again and received a class 2 medical with an AGL restriction: "valid only with approved eye protection". Apparently that means that if I'm flying in any zero / neg G condition or open cockpit, that protection has to be worn. Still have to do some research on this.

---

FAA is the way to go for the very initial medical with monocular vision. Most other CAAs are more restrictive than the FAA. But: Once you have some decent PIC solo time other authorities will more likely consider you. Flight experience really is the door opener in this case. And it's easiest to start off with a FAA medical for this purpose.

Will try to get a (restricted) JAR class 1 medical after some more years of flying, and possibly also a FAA class 2 / 1.

PM me if you have questions. And don't be discouraged by people telling you that you cannot fly. You can.

i meant to update this thread as to my position also:

i am monocular , left eye 20/200 right eye 20/20

i obtained a class 1 FAA with the need for a MFT to get a SODA

i also managed to get a class 2 uk CAA JAR medical with the need to do a MFT.

i will back up the last posters comments. don't give up, fight your corner and you will succeed.
any one has any questions drop me a pm.

VISION THREAD (other than colour vision) 2
 

Dear All,

Same as for the colour vision thread, I've started a new vision thread as the sites owners have told us that the large threads (more than 1000 posts) put too big a load on the servers and slow the site down. The old thread will remain for reference.

Cheers,

BM

Roger that. I will re-post my last message but I hope it is not a problem at all.

Is it true that the UK CAA will not be issuing EASA medicals until 17th September, 2012?
I heard they will issue JAR licence till 16th September, 2012 because 1st July, 2012 date turned out to not be achievable.
Can anybody confirm it?

Perhaps I misunderstand your post but 6/6 even with correction is fine, and -1.00 correction is also well within limits.

Hi guys,

Can anybody tell me when the Spanish CAA is implementing the new EASA Part-MED regulations?

Thanks.:rolleyes:

Laser eye surgery vs rules in Asian countries
 

Is there someone out there who has actually interviewed/worked for any >Japanese< and other Asian carriers that can assist me with a vision improvement type laser eye surgery question? Please know I have already read all that I can locate on this website. (I have read a few posts that leaned towards saying that this procedure is not permitted in Japan) I then took the extra step of writing two of the broker agencies that have been around for a long time. An established person at Wasinc said this procedure is prohibited by the Japanese Gov’t. But to confuse the issue further a senior Asia person at Rishworth wrote me that an applicant can succeed when applying to a Japanese carrier but reminded me of the necessary steps, ie that one must disclose this on the front end, bring one’s existing home country aviation Medical Certificate and bring the before and after eye measurements from the Dr who performed the surgery. So, from the employment offices that should know, I have received two answers that contradict one another.
In a nutshell,
1 can a pilot successfully obtain a Japanese Gov’t airline pilot’s Level medical if they are healthy in all areas but have previously had successful Laser eye surgery (to improve their vision)? I know radial keratonamy won’t pass, but if they do permit it does the Japanese Gov’t distinguish with a thumbs up/down between PRK and Lasik?
2 If the Japanese Gov’t permits it, does it end up being a de facto item of not getting hired cause no actual Airline in Japan will offer employment to a pilot who has had this?
3 And while we are on this topic, might you happen to know if Laser eye surgery for vision improvement is permitted in
Korea
Singapore
Malaysia
China
Indonesia

Do any of these countries distinguish between PRK and Lasik?

I appreciate whatever info you can pass along. I don’t mind filling out all the various applications but I would like to avoid spending the time barking up the wrong tree if this is a No Go item in certain countries. I imagine your answer will help out a good number of pilots out on this website. Thanks.

I heard the time to re-instate a Class 1 medical certificate and a Class 2 medical certificate after a LASIK eye surgery is not 3 months anymore but only 20 days according to new EASA rules. Can anybody confirm that?:eek:
I thought it was still 3 months from date of surgery if LASIK and 6 months from date of surgery if PRK.

I'd really appreciate an answer:}

Hi All ,

I'd like to apply for a C1 Med and believe that I meet the criteria with the exception of that I exceed the Esophoria limit , which would probably mean an Unfit assessment by AME and referral to Consultant Opthamologist .

I've seen my Orthoptist at Moorefields and showed her the C1 Med requirements , she said that I'm about 12 Eso but that it is well compensated for and have very good Fusional reserves. I also did the Stereoscopic test and could see the 3D images , which means I do retain Binocular vision . She increased my prescription from ( +2.25 L / 2 R ) to ( +3 ) on both as it might help with the Esophoria . I'm supposed to go back in a few days to be checked again and get a report written up to take with me to Gatwick.

She reckons that I could get a pass based on the Compensation and Fusional reserves but IF that wasn't good enough then I could have surgery ( Strabismus correction ?? ) to sort out the imbalance .

Anyone have experience with Esophoria on C1 recently ? I've found a few posts circa 2007 / 2010 and they weren't even referred for further evaluation , 2007 person even said that AME didn't bother measuring fusional reserve.

With regards to the surgery , I remember reading a few posts saying that it was only for cosmetic purposes in adults . According to my Orthoptist and a couple of articles on the web it can improve the eye muscle imbalance , rather confused now :confused:

tcw3: WRT Singapore, the answer is "yes", even for military pilot selection. Yes, that's right: current standard for selection by the Republic of Singapore Air Force is a refraction within +/-5.00 spherical dioptres and correctable to 6/6 or better in each eye separately, distant and near, no more than 2.00 cylinder dioptres of astigmatism. You must be a citizen or permanent resident of Singapore.


From their own official website:

Republic of Singapore Air Force - Careers - Vocations

WS-G, thanks for the input and web link. tcw3

So I've been reading the new EASA medical guidelines:

http://easa.europa.eu/agency-measure...bin%20crew.pdf

On page 24 it states:

So does this mean that someone who exceeds these limits (for example, having myopia of -8.0) will be granted a Class 1 medical if they are checked by an opthalmologist and given the all-clear? Earlier on the page it states:

What do they mean by this? What kind of limitation? :confused:

Bad eyes and licence types - info please?
 

I thought I'd pop a post on here regarding my eye sight. I'm looking to hopefully do NPPL which I shouldn't have a problem with, I drive after all. (My general health is good)
My question lies in the other licences which I'm afraid the names of escape me right now, not fully clued up just yet! But basically, I don't want to have to rule out (as long as everything goes well) going commerical and flying for an airline.

I don't really understand my contact lens prescription but my right eye is 6/6-3 and my left is 6/60 and I know that's terrible!!! :(
I've tried looking at the CAA website but couldn't really make 100% sense of it. I've debated looking into getting my eyes sorted, fear and a lack of money have stood in my way and knowing now I can more than likely get the NPPL I'm ok to put it on the back burner although have considered going for a free consultation to see what's said.

My optician said they probably wouldn't do anything with the left because it's bad and because my brain uses my right for seeing and the left for preriferal vision only through years (22 or so) of only having 1 good eye. And he also said they'd probably be funny about doing anything with the right as it wouldn't leave me with a good eye.
However when I put my prescription into the laser eye surgury companies website it says something can be done.

Really, anyone who is/has been in a similar boat, any advice?
Thank you in advance, I really appreciate people giving me all this advice when I know so little :ok:

Hi Lizz,

I've been in a similar boat to you and taken the plunge (I'll stop with the sea based metaphors immediately).

I had 6/60 in both eyes which isn't too bad. I had Lasik surgery four years ago and my right eye deteriorated so I had it done again a couple of months ago. The surgery really isn't that bad but granted, it is quite expensive.

I had a Class 1 medical which is now suspnded for three months until my right eye has recovered but fingers crossed I should get it again. I intend to become a commercial pilot so laser surgery really shouldn't stop you.

There are pre-op limits to what you can be corrected from so double check them and talk to your optician if you exceed that in your worse eye as that will stop the commercial pilot option immediately (sorry, I know that might be frustrating but there is nothing you can do about it so I'm not going to lie).

Happy to answer any questions if you have any.

Cheers for the sea based reply!
I've come to accept that maybe, just maybe it's a dream I'll have to let go of. Still right now I'm trying to find the money for a private licence, so I'm thinking a while ahead.

As I said I put the prescription into optimax I think it was and it said something could be done either lasek, lasik or a lens into my eye, whatever that one's called although that sounds horrific but that's just me being squimish! :eek:

Saying this I watched air crash investigation on Monday and that captain only had 1 eye and managed to land a plane without engines! So maybe, just maybe there's hope yet!
I have just looked at optical express as well and they too say something can be done. It might just be worth me popping in for one of these free consultations to see what they say, can get an answer either way then!